Pulling your chain @ 3:00 to test for wear. - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 25 Old 05-26-2019, 07:19 PM Thread Starter
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Pulling your chain @ 3:00 to test for wear.

I just did the chain pull test. Basically you pull the very rear of the chain at the 3 o'clock position in order to test the wear between the links and there looks like the chain has a LOT of pull to me.

Is there a way to measure this? I have nothing to go on, but it just seems like the chain should have that much wear.

There's enough room at the 3 o'clock position of the rear sprocket that I can insert a regular screw driver in there.

The sprockets actually look good, but I'm concerned with how the chain itself looks. IDK if they are supposed to wear at the same rate.

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post #2 of 25 Old 05-26-2019, 10:06 PM
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post #3 of 25 Old 05-26-2019, 10:37 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
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There's one in every crowd isn't there

Hey, you ever replace a chain? Which tool did you use?

I'm seeing a < $30 tool at Summit Racing and this may be the only time I ever change a chain, so I don't need a great tool that I may never use again.

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post #4 of 25 Old 05-26-2019, 10:48 PM Thread Starter
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Here's a video of the chain being pulled out to show the wear:


Here's another that look like it's popping out a bit as if it has a stiff link, but I wasn't able to find it.


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post #5 of 25 Old 05-26-2019, 11:32 PM Thread Starter
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Here's a link to a chain tool kit, quite a bit cheaper than MotionPro, they want $92 for theirs. IDK if this one will do everything I need, I've never done a chain before.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/w...BoCDGAQAvD_BwE

I know the chain looks very dry in the first video... I just did a double cleaning with degreaser, but it does look like it needs a full soaking clean.

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post #6 of 25 Old 05-27-2019, 12:20 AM Thread Starter
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Looks like I found the answer here: Mine is overdue for replacement, so I now have to study up on how to do this properly. I think there was a thread on this where someone had a chain let go and damaged his bike. I think Kyle Racing chimed in with the exact measurements for how to press the rivets.


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post #7 of 25 Old 05-27-2019, 02:46 AM
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Your first video tells the whole story about how much free play there is around the links...it's certainly done its time.

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post #8 of 25 Old 05-27-2019, 02:50 AM
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As to the tools, you'll need a pin extractor at a minimum to push the pin out of the old master clip once you have ground the flattened head off it. IIRC, it's also possible to use the same tool to flare the head of the new pin, with the careful use of a ball bearing, but it's a long time since I did mine and can't give you chapter and verse..

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post #9 of 25 Old 05-27-2019, 03:01 AM
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No, not true - this was the little device that could be used to flare the end

https://www.amazon.com/Motion-Pro-Mi...%2C293&sr=8-13

..but it looks like the other tool would give you a rivetting function anyway..

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post #10 of 25 Old 05-27-2019, 05:20 AM
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I got one of those cheap chain breaking/riveting kits. Used it several times. The kits do an OK job just take your time, preferably rivet the chain on a bench. I can't say the actual kit is built to last as I've noticed some wear on the riveting pin. But for the price you'll get several chains done.
The kit has everything you need.
I tend to do my chains by sight and feel. I pay close attention when riveting. Stopping after half a turn or so and checking the flare.
The flare can be as little as 0.2mm to 0.5mm but should never be over 0.7mm(.030"). The rivet pin should be flared just enough to keep the sideplate on, but not flared too much to bind the link. You don't want to crack the flare or squish and damage the O ring.
I'll use digital calipers to check my work at the end. Use other links and rivets as a reference.
I try to avoid riveting chains altogether these days by buying endless chains to suit. For example my next 919 chain will be a DID 112 link endless, no master link. Like the OEM chain.
Also if ya stuff up its no problem. Just get yourself another masterlink and do a proper job of it.
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post #11 of 25 Old 05-27-2019, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
I just did the chain pull test. Basically you pull the very rear of the chain at the 3 o'clock position in order to test the wear between the links and there looks like the chain has a LOT of pull to me.

Is there a way to measure this? I have nothing to go on, but it just seems like the chain should have that much wear.

There's enough room at the 3 o'clock position of the rear sprocket that I can insert a regular screw driver in there.

The sprockets actually look good, but I'm concerned with how the chain itself looks. IDK if they are supposed to wear at the same rate.
Did you do that check with the chain warm or cold?
Regardless, it's toast.
If it was done cold, do it again warm and see what the difference is.
The more the chain is dirty and/or lubed with very viscous lube, the more dramatic the difference will be.
The warm state is where the chain lives its operational life.
The more slop there is evident by a 3 o'clock tug, the further out on the tooth the chain has to ride out to in order to find contact under power.

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post #12 of 25 Old 05-27-2019, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
Here's a video of the chain being pulled out to show the wear:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTyf...ature=youtu.be

Here's another that look like it's popping out a bit as if it has a stiff link, but I wasn't able to find it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSnM...ature=youtu.be
The upper one depicts something nothing short of frightening!
It's getting to be in the same league as that Harley I saw on the sand on Sauble Beach Ontario back in early 70s.

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post #13 of 25 Old 05-27-2019, 08:24 AM
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I forgot to add in that for sure you need new sprockets as well.
They will be both worn and reshaped, and ruin a new chain in short order.
You need a complete kit, as in sprockets and chain.

Good chain with good sprockets will last longer if cared for properly, so a cheaper up front cost is a form of false economy.

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post #14 of 25 Old 05-27-2019, 09:25 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
I forgot to add in that for sure you need new sprockets as well.
They will be both worn and reshaped, and ruin a new chain in short order.
You need a complete kit, as in sprockets and chain.

Good chain with good sprockets will last longer if cared for properly, so a cheaper up front cost is a form of false economy.
I bought the 17/44 kit 6 years ago, so I'll be doing both sprockets and chain. I just need to know if the tool will get the job done.

Will this tool do the job? I have no idea what size the links require, but I guess the press part is the key part because I really don't need to care about the old chain.

My main concern is to make sure the new chain rivets are pressed properly.

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post #15 of 25 Old 05-27-2019, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
Looks like I found the answer here: Mine is overdue for replacement, so I now have to study up on how to do this properly. I think there was a thread on this where someone had a chain let go and damaged his bike. I think Kyle Racing chimed in with the exact measurements for how to press the rivets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVcE9VhFVN4
The suggested side to side check presented is highly problematic if referenced to the side of the tire, as its way too dependent upon the distance of the centre of the chain run to the centre of the wheel, as compounded by how wide the tire is.
But it is good for getting across the point that excessive side slop indicates excessive chain wear.
The reality is this, if a warm 3o'clock tug reveals excessive wear, rest assured with will also be excessive side slop.
Also, the chain pull (driving force) tension keeps that run of the chain aligned.
The slack run relies upon the front:rear sprocket alignment and also the high inertial energy from the chain velocity as well as the for its guidance.
Ideal is to have the run line perfectly coincident with the line between the sprockets, which is why sprocket alignment is so crucial.

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post #16 of 25 Old 05-27-2019, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
Here's a link to a chain tool kit, quite a bit cheaper than MotionPro, they want $92 for theirs. IDK if this one will do everything I need, I've never done a chain before.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/w...BoCDGAQAvD_BwE

I know the chain looks very dry in the first video... I just did a double cleaning with degreaser, but it does look like it needs a full soaking clean.
Suggest you heed Islandboy's comments.

Also, there was a thread not to along ago, last year I think, maybe 2017, about the various tools people used.
I remember some really good content in that thread.
If I can find it, I'll pull it up again.

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post #17 of 25 Old 05-27-2019, 10:58 AM
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Found it.
See DIY chain rivet tool thread of 2017.

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post #18 of 25 Old 05-27-2019, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
I bought the 17/44 kit 6 years ago, so I'll be doing both sprockets and chain. I just need to know if the tool will get the job done.

Will this tool do the job? I have no idea what size the links require, but I guess the press part is the key part because I really don't need to care about the old chain.

My main concern is to make sure the new chain rivets are pressed properly.
If you see this as being a one time thing of picky work easy to screw up that, you've not done before, and intend to use as economical tool as can be found to do it with, then perhaps another avenue should be considered.

It's best to do the riveting on the bench.
Being a 919, if you have your swing arm pin reversed, you can easily have the chain only riveted for you at a shop, and simply mount the linked chain back on the bike.

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post #19 of 25 Old 05-27-2019, 11:39 AM Thread Starter
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Will this tool do the job? It's the DID 520 kit sold by Kyle Racing.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DN6SDZL..._t3_B076SL178P

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post #20 of 25 Old 05-27-2019, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
Will this tool do the job? It's the DID 520 kit sold by Kyle Racing.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DN6SDZL..._t3_B076SL178P
This kit and the previous one will do both 520 and 530 chains. To break these size chains using these kits you really should grind the rivet heads down before pressing pins. Both kits have the required pin for riveting also.

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post #21 of 25 Old 05-27-2019, 04:30 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, tool ordered from Amazon. I really feel sorry for some web sites, they had my order until I realized they wouldn't even ship it for over 2 weeks. There's no way they can compete against Amazon.

Glad I decided to do a full chain clean and adjust this weekend, didn't realize just how bad it was.
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post #22 of 25 Old 05-27-2019, 06:23 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
I got one of those cheap chain breaking/riveting kits. Used it several times. The kits do an OK job just take your time, preferably rivet the chain on a bench. I can't say the actual kit is built to last as I've noticed some wear on the riveting pin. But for the price you'll get several chains done.
The kit has everything you need.
I tend to do my chains by sight and feel. I pay close attention when riveting. Stopping after half a turn or so and checking the flare.
The flare can be as little as 0.2mm to 0.5mm but should never be over 0.7mm(.030"). The rivet pin should be flared just enough to keep the sideplate on, but not flared too much to bind the link. You don't want to crack the flare or squish and damage the O ring.
I'll use digital calipers to check my work at the end. Use other links and rivets as a reference.
I try to avoid riveting chains altogether these days by buying endless chains to suit. For example my next 919 chain will be a DID 112 link endless, no master link. Like the OEM chain.
Also if ya stuff up its no problem. Just get yourself another masterlink and do a proper job of it.
So when you say "The flare can be as little as 0.2mm to 0.5mm but should never be over 0.7mm(.030"). "

You're talking about the measurement between the original rivet and the squished rivet?

In other words, if the master link rivet is 4mm (wild guess for example purposes) you'd want 4.5mm at the head when you're done smashing it?

I question comparing to the other links because those are swedged vs flared. Wouldn't the distance between the roller and the side plate be more accurate?

I assume all the o rings are the same size and they all rest between the roller and the side plate.
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post #23 of 25 Old 05-27-2019, 07:03 PM
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Yes to all your questions.
Regarding your question concerning your rivet comparison you are correct also. I've never flared a masterlink rivet as wide as the rivets used on the rest of the chain. Check out my previous masterlink pic.
You are correct about the side plate distance. This is more important.
I tend to go by feel and sight and just use the measurements as a reference point. This is why I like doing the riveting on a bench. Better control, a good thing with the cheaper kits. You can get a good look at the job and a good feel.
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post #24 of 25 Old 05-28-2019, 12:57 PM
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That chain is absolutely WIPED OUT and has been for a long time. I bought a chain breaker tool from ebay for like 11 dollars. You'll still to figure out how you're removing the chain though. Next time I'm just gonna do the swing arm bolt thing.

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post #25 of 25 Old 05-28-2019, 06:52 PM
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Swing arm bolt thing recommended. You pull the swing arm bolt out and you can take that side plate off. Chains can then be taken off and put on intact. Good opportunity to grease up swingarm bolt.
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