Power Commander - Differences - Wrist Twisters
 6Likes
  • 3 Post By Islandboy
  • 2 Post By rmb
  • 1 Post By Islandboy
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 26 Old 10-17-2019, 08:57 AM Thread Starter
Tirone
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Stow
Posts: 69
Rep Power: 1
 
Power Commander - Differences

Was offered a new PC-V from my brother inlaw at our local bike shop. It's $299 plus taxes out the door.

Besides the higher cost than a used PCIII, I can't find a definitive answer whether or not I can use the PCIII maps that are available (like from LDH, etc.) to use on the PCV.

If I overlooked this on our search engine, I apologize. I didn't mean to post a reiteration.

Appreciate the help as I'm looking to remove the choppiness of the low rpms (1500-3000) on my new 04' CB919

Cheers,

LoopsandLogic is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 26 Old 10-17-2019, 09:28 AM
LDH
Test Rider
 
LDH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: by the ocean
Posts: 4,340
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Trackday Recognition Referral Award 
Total Awards: 2

You can import the PCIII maps to the PCV through the software.


You can still buy brand new PCIII USB models for $200 Shipped btw and nobody will ever be able to tell the difference in performance between both models

LDH is offline  
post #3 of 26 Old 10-17-2019, 09:36 AM Thread Starter
Tirone
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Stow
Posts: 69
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
You can import the PCIII maps to the PCV through the software.


You can still buy brand new PCIII USB models for $200 Shipped btw and nobody will ever be able to tell the difference in performance between both models
Thank you for clarifying! I googled around for over 2 hours last night but couldn't find anyone or anything stating this.

I did notice that the PC-V doesn't really offer me anything that I need. Where have you seen new PCIII's for $200?

LoopsandLogic is offline  
 
post #4 of 26 Old 10-17-2019, 09:50 AM
LDH
Test Rider
 
LDH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: by the ocean
Posts: 4,340
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Trackday Recognition Referral Award 
Total Awards: 2

I've been blowin 'them out at that price for months

LDH is offline  
post #5 of 26 Old 10-17-2019, 01:19 PM
Pilus Posterior
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 2,108
Rep Power: 1
 
What's the difference from one to another within the same class? Example:
https://www.denniskirk.com/dynojet/p...prd/208624.sku

It's $83 but not for a 919, so what's the difference, the interface to the computer and why can't we adapt it to fit?

KarlJay is offline  
post #6 of 26 Old 10-17-2019, 01:27 PM
LDH
Test Rider
 
LDH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: by the ocean
Posts: 4,340
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Trackday Recognition Referral Award 
Total Awards: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
What's the difference from one to another within the same class? Example:
https://www.denniskirk.com/dynojet/p...prd/208624.sku

It's $83 but not for a 919, so what's the difference, the interface to the computer and why can't we adapt it to fit?

Each one us custom made for the model bike it fits. Sensor inputs, Molex connectors etc. In many cases you could snip & solder a lot of different units to make new connections that would work properly, but way too much effort and there are also a lot of nuances built in to specific models that preclude such action.


For example: The linked ad above is for a single cylinder Suzuki quad...

LDH is offline  
post #7 of 26 Old 10-17-2019, 03:28 PM
919 Rider
 
Islandboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Flinders island
Posts: 2,166
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
I've been blowin 'them out at that price for months
I'm spewing I didn't get one from you at that price!

Islandboy is offline  
post #8 of 26 Old 10-18-2019, 06:24 AM
Pilus Posterior
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 2,108
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
I'm spewing I didn't get one from you at that price!
Which one did you end up getting and how did it work out?

I'm thinking about switching the front sprocket for more torque and wanted a smoother launch, I'd like to know if you can smooth out the "jerky" take off with one of these.

KarlJay is offline  
post #9 of 26 Old 10-18-2019, 01:36 PM
919 Rider
 
Islandboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Flinders island
Posts: 2,166
Rep Power: 1
 
I got a power commander 111. Fitted it to my bike a couple of years ago. Along with suspension upgrades was one of the best things I did to my bike. Really smoothed out my throttle/fueling. My bike was getting too much fuel at low speed/small throttle openings. It was almost impossible to maintain a constant low speed. The bike would surge and clunk a lot. Also the throttle transition at any speed was very abrupt, sort of harsh on/off feel. The power commander 111 pretty much sorted all that out.
I will also add the starter valve synchronization also improved/smoothed out my low speed. My starter valves were way off.
mcromo44, K1w1Boy and ewmin3m like this.

Islandboy is offline  
post #10 of 26 Old 10-18-2019, 06:08 PM
rmb
Let's go!
 
rmb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sussex Couty NJ
Posts: 7,650
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 9

+1, the PCIII really helped ridability at low speeds, worth its weight in gold.
mcromo44 and K1w1Boy like this.

rmb is offline  
post #11 of 26 Old 10-18-2019, 06:43 PM
McTavish
 
mcromo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,615
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
Which one did you end up getting and how did it work out?

I'm thinking about switching the front sprocket for more torque and wanted a smoother launch, I'd like to know if you can smooth out the "jerky" take off with one of these.
If you go with less teeth to get more torque multiplication, it will magnify whatever you are currently feeling, not diminish it.

mcromo44 is offline  
post #12 of 26 Old 10-18-2019, 06:51 PM
Pilus Posterior
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 2,108
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
If you go with less teeth to get more torque multiplication, it will magnify whatever you are currently feeling, not diminish it.
I went from stock to the 17/44 setup and I ended up with a smoother lower end in 1st gear, but I had to go WOT in order to get the torque I wanted.

I was OK with the setup before, but I wanted to get rid of the jerky low end. I know that with a 16/44 it'll be even worse than before, so I'm thinking the PCIII would take care of that.

Problem is I live in California and they won't ship to California, so I have to have it shipped to someone outside CA and have them ship it to me

TBH, I don't need the high speed, I really don't go over 100~110 very often and the "buzzy" part that the 17/44 addressed wasn't worth losing the lower end pulling power.

I do a lot of city riding, so having that extra "get out of the way" power is more important.

If the PCIII USB will get the job done, it might be a good way to go.

KarlJay is offline  
post #13 of 26 Old 10-18-2019, 07:34 PM
McTavish
 
mcromo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,615
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
I went from stock to the 17/44 setup and I ended up with a smoother lower end in 1st gear, but I had to go WOT in order to get the torque I wanted.

I was OK with the setup before, but I wanted to get rid of the jerky low end. I know that with a 16/44 it'll be even worse than before, so I'm thinking the PCIII would take care of that.

Problem is I live in California and they won't ship to California, so I have to have it shipped to someone outside CA and have them ship it to me

TBH, I don't need the high speed, I really don't go over 100~110 very often and the "buzzy" part that the 17/44 addressed wasn't worth losing the lower end pulling power.

I do a lot of city riding, so having that extra "get out of the way" power is more important.

If the PCIII USB will get the job done, it might be a good way to go.
Odd that you felt such a difference going to the 17/44 as it is a mere 4% reduction in multiplication ratio.
Anyway, I found the PCIIIusb to be a world changer, once a good map was in it and the PC was synch'd.
Lastly, if your intake is not stock, be it filter and/or box changes, that could be part of it.
The flapper mod is of no effect re low end fueling.
For the red hot price a new one is from LDH at KR, I'm sure you can find an out of state friendly to be part of the needed get-around of your CA address.

mcromo44 is offline  
post #14 of 26 Old 10-18-2019, 08:17 PM
Pilus Posterior
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 2,108
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
Odd that you felt such a difference going to the 17/44 as it is a mere 4% reduction in multiplication ratio.
Anyway, I found the PCIIIusb to be a world changer, once a good map was in it and the PC was synch'd.
Lastly, if your intake is not stock, be it filter and/or box changes, that could be part of it.
The flapper mod is of no effect re low end fueling.
For the red hot price a new one is from LDH at KR, I'm sure you can find an out of state friendly to be part of the needed get-around of your CA address.
I was surprised that the 17/44 made the difference that it did. I assume what I had before was stock, I think I still have them sitting around, maybe the PO changed the gearing.

The real change is when I take off from a start and when I get on the freeway. I actually had to go WOT while getting on the freeway, but maybe it's me being aggressive.

I probably shouldn't be so aggressive, but it's fun.

IDK how many units LDH has, but maybe someone can do a group buy and ship out to those that want one. I'm sure we have a number of CA riders here.

KarlJay is offline  
post #15 of 26 Old 10-18-2019, 09:18 PM
919 Rider
 
Islandboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Flinders island
Posts: 2,166
Rep Power: 1
 
I will agree with mcromo in regards to the air filter. On my bike a K&N air filter would significantly alter the way my bike ran at low throttle/low speed. Made riding at low speed very rough and jerky. Could not maintain a constant even engine speed. It was crap for cruising about slowly and looking cool. Made it look like you couldn't ride hahaha!
Putting a OEM filter back immediately fixed all that. Feeling cool again.
I got two perfectly good K&N air filters sitting on a shelf gathering dust.
WxN likes this.

Islandboy is offline  
post #16 of 26 Old 10-18-2019, 09:32 PM
Pilus Posterior
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 2,108
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
I will agree with mcromo in regards to the air filter. On my bike a K&N air filter would significantly alter the way my bike ran at low throttle/low speed. Made riding at low speed very rough and jerky. Could not maintain a constant even engine speed. It was crap for cruising about slowly and looking cool. Made it look like you couldn't ride hahaha!
Putting a OEM filter back immediately fixed all that. Feeling cool again.
I got two perfectly good K&N air filters sitting on a shelf gathering dust.
I didn't notice any difference except a very small amount in the mid range. I could hear the difference because I didn't have the cover on and the extra power in the mid range was so small that cooler air would made 2X the difference.

The jerky low end is more about were the torque kicks in, if you slip the clutch, you don't feel it much but if you're going very slow and turn the throttle, it like to jump when the torque kicks in.

One other option is to get a cam for the throttle so that it moves slower at the start.

KarlJay is offline  
post #17 of 26 Old 10-18-2019, 09:47 PM
919 Rider
 
Islandboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Flinders island
Posts: 2,166
Rep Power: 1
 
Have you still got you old OEM filter? Pop it back in, just to be sure.

Islandboy is offline  
post #18 of 26 Old 10-19-2019, 09:15 AM
McTavish
 
mcromo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,615
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
I was surprised that the 17/44 made the difference that it did. I assume what I had before was stock, I think I still have them sitting around, maybe the PO changed the gearing.

The real change is when I take off from a start and when I get on the freeway. I actually had to go WOT while getting on the freeway, but maybe it's me being aggressive.
If you can't adequately accelerate and merge onto the highway unless you are truly at WOT, then you have a sick bike, regardless of the gearing.
Unless you are in 6th gear and treating the engine like it's a diesel.

What gear are you in when you do this?
Where are you on the tacho?

Something is way wrong with all this.

mcromo44 is offline  
post #19 of 26 Old 10-19-2019, 11:50 AM
Pilus Posterior
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 2,108
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
If you can't adequately accelerate and merge onto the highway unless you are truly at WOT, then you have a sick bike, regardless of the gearing.
Unless you are in 6th gear and treating the engine like it's a diesel.

What gear are you in when you do this?
Where are you on the tacho?

Something is way wrong with all this.
It's not really about "adequate" acceleration to get on the freeway, it's about hauling ass. I really don't know how to know if the bike should have more power or not.

TBH, I don't really track what gear I'm in, I usually just grab a gear and open up the throttle so that I'm going fast enough that I can pick where I want to be to merge.

I'd have to do a 1/4 mile run or 0-60 to know how much power it has.

It's not so much the mid range or upper range that has the problem, it's that I don't have the torque I had before the gear change. I remember other saying similar things when then did the gear change.

KarlJay is offline  
post #20 of 26 Old 10-19-2019, 12:43 PM
McTavish
 
mcromo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,615
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
It's not really about "adequate" acceleration to get on the freeway, it's about hauling ass. I really don't know how to know if the bike should have more power or not.

TBH, I don't really track what gear I'm in, I usually just grab a gear and open up the throttle so that I'm going fast enough that I can pick where I want to be to merge.

I'd have to do a 1/4 mile run or 0-60 to know how much power it has.

It's not so much the mid range or upper range that has the problem, it's that I don't have the torque I had before the gear change. I remember other saying similar things when then did the gear change.
My guess is that a 4 % change in gearing is more noticeable by the timing of gear changes for any given road speed, than seat of the pants accel in most modes of normal operation.
Maybe some sense of softened power, but my guess is that would be most noticeable in just the top 3 gears.
What remains is this, a 17/44 setup nets the following road speeds @ WOT @ 9400 RPM (200+ revs of nice stable flattish over rev power past peak power):
65 MPH in 1st Gear
88 MPH in 2nd Gear
I think you need to examine what gear/gears you are using for accel and merging.
With a 17/44 you should be able to accel so hard that your problem becomes having to brake to slow down to match traffic.
In 2nd gear.

mcromo44 is offline  
post #21 of 26 Old 10-19-2019, 03:09 PM
Pilus Posterior
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 2,108
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
My guess is that a 4 % change in gearing is more noticeable by the timing of gear changes for any given road speed, than seat of the pants accel in most modes of normal operation.
Maybe some sense of softened power, but my guess is that would be most noticeable in just the top 3 gears.
What remains is this, a 17/44 setup nets the following road speeds @ WOT @ 9400 RPM (200+ revs of nice stable flattish over rev power past peak power):
65 MPH in 1st Gear
88 MPH in 2nd Gear
I think you need to examine what gear/gears you are using for accel and merging.
With a 17/44 you should be able to accel so hard that your problem becomes having to brake to slow down to match traffic.
In 2nd gear.
One area that was pretty clear was coming out of a stop light. Before, I was able to lift the front wheel without much trouble, now I'd have to work at it if I'm able to. When someone says "4%" it makes it seem like I should barely tell the difference, yet I noticed it right away. It wasn't like I did several changes at one time, I only changed the chain/sprockets at that time so nothing else changed.

It does seems strange on the surface that 4% would even be noticeable, but I also didn't confirm that the sprockets were original, so maybe it wasn't a 16 to start with, but that would make something like an 8% change (IIRC) and that seems more reasonable.

I really don't think there's something wrong with the bike in terms of power output, but at the same time, I don't know how to compare it.

It could be one of those "running on 12 year old tires" things or what happened with my forks about a year ago when the fluid was slush and it made a big difference.

I've never done the valve adjustment or the starter sync thing, so maybe that has and effect, but IDK.

I guess I really should tear into it a bit more, I don't like covering up one problem by buying a solution that hides it, but at the same time, the PCIII seems to be a nice upgrade from what others say about the low end jerky problem.

It's not just this bike, most bikes you have to give them some gas and feather the clutch to get them going, the 919 is known for lower end torque, so a strong pull low would make it jerky.

I do have the carb sync tool and probably should check the valves as I'm at 40,000 + and don't know that they've ever been done.

Given that the PCIII is $200, seems like a pretty good investment, I'd just have to find a way to ship it somewhere else or have someone else buy it for me and ship it to me.

KarlJay is offline  
post #22 of 26 Old 10-19-2019, 07:59 PM
919 City Pilot
 
Pegjumpflyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Tucson Wasteland
Posts: 1,035
Rep Power: 1
 
Where is this dropbox, Still running the 2bros map)

Pegjumpflyer is offline  
post #23 of 26 Old 10-19-2019, 09:37 PM
Pilus Posterior
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 2,108
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pegjumpflyer View Post
Where is this dropbox, Still running the 2bros map)
Here's a link to a thread, but IDK how to access the actual Dropbox location.

https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums...ml#post1360835

KarlJay is offline  
post #24 of 26 Old 10-20-2019, 09:10 AM
919 City Pilot
 
Pegjumpflyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Tucson Wasteland
Posts: 1,035
Rep Power: 1
 
Cпаси́бо )

Pegjumpflyer is offline  
post #25 of 26 Old 10-20-2019, 04:52 PM
Wanna free cat?
 
rufftup's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: East Texas
Posts: 373
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
You can import the PCIII maps to the PCV through the software.


You can still buy brand new PCIII USB models for $200 Shipped btw and nobody will ever be able to tell the difference in performance between both models

I'd like to have one
PM sent

Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before.
--- Mae West
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2007 CB900F
rufftup is offline  
post #26 of 26 Old 10-27-2019, 07:56 PM
The Cripple
 
Pvster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 8,765
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
One area that was pretty clear was coming out of a stop light. Before, I was able to lift the front wheel without much trouble, now I'd have to work at it if I'm able to. When someone says "4%" it makes it seem like I should barely tell the difference, yet I noticed it right away. It wasn't like I did several changes at one time, I only changed the chain/sprockets at that time so nothing else changed.



It does seems strange on the surface that 4% would even be noticeable, but I also didn't confirm that the sprockets were original, so maybe it wasn't a 16 to start with, but that would make something like an 8% change (IIRC) and that seems more reasonable.



I really don't think there's something wrong with the bike in terms of power output, but at the same time, I don't know how to compare it.



It could be one of those "running on 12 year old tires" things or what happened with my forks about a year ago when the fluid was slush and it made a big difference.



I've never done the valve adjustment or the starter sync thing, so maybe that has and effect, but IDK.



I guess I really should tear into it a bit more, I don't like covering up one problem by buying a solution that hides it, but at the same time, the PCIII seems to be a nice upgrade from what others say about the low end jerky problem.



It's not just this bike, most bikes you have to give them some gas and feather the clutch to get them going, the 919 is known for lower end torque, so a strong pull low would make it jerky.



I do have the carb sync tool and probably should check the valves as I'm at 40,000 + and don't know that they've ever been done.



Given that the PCIII is $200, seems like a pretty good investment, I'd just have to find a way to ship it somewhere else or have someone else buy it for me and ship it to me.
I routinely rode the RPMs to red line through first and if I had enough room, second gear before backing off or even braking while merging via the on ramp. With 17/44, it was zero problem. I liked that it was a little harder to lift the front end unless you really meant to do it. A little bit is lost on the low end but the ride ability and usability of the midrange improved significantly. You need to shift your mindset to not what you think you've lost, but to what you actually gained in the mid range. Preload the throttle, shift weight rearward, and crack throttle open at 5-6k rpms, front will come right up. Shift weight forward, ride 1st to redline and shift into 2nd as you hammer the throttle, front wheel will come up anywhere from .5-2 inches and touch down quickly but still rock stable. I miss the 919.

I'm in Phoenix and will be heading to Midland City Nov 10th if you need help with getting a PC3 in state.

Pvster is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wrist Twisters forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










« Dropbox Update | - »
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome