Power commander cold starting problems - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 64 Old 02-02-2015, 04:16 PM Thread Starter
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Power commander cold starting problems

I know this issue has been beat to death and there is no sure fix

I feel like I am having exceptional starting difficulties. It takes me about 4-5 fully three second bursts of the starter to get her started! WTH

I have a homemade A123 systems LiFePO4 that can handle it but im worried about the extra wear and tear on everything cold starting that long.

I love the new found rideability and dont want to get rid of the power commander if at all possible!

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post #2 of 64 Old 02-02-2015, 04:29 PM
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there is a sure fix. its a simple power supply issue caused by the
start/kill/throttle switch assembly. change it and no more starting problems.

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post #3 of 64 Old 02-02-2015, 05:07 PM
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I just hold down the starter button for a few seconds longer after the engine fires up. Haven't had an issue with it for over 2 years. Doesn't hurt the starter either.

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post #4 of 64 Old 02-03-2015, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
I just hold down the starter button for a few seconds longer after the engine fires up. Haven't had an issue with it for over 2 years. Doesn't hurt the starter either.
Same here

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post #5 of 64 Old 02-03-2015, 11:44 AM
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im starting to get this problem too. whats strange is it didnt start happening until after my battery completely died.

i installed my PC III on the bike, no problems starting. In fact it almost seemed like it started up easier.

One day i left my heated grips on after getting off my bike (im an idiot, i didnt wire my grips via relay into my headlights) for 5-6 hours, the battery completely died. Left the bike overnight, charged it the next day and started it up. Ever since i have had to hold the starter button in for 4-6 seconds.

I prefer not to, but its not a huge deal. Still strange that i rode the bike with a PCIII for months without this problem.

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post #6 of 64 Old 02-04-2015, 06:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drivit View Post
there is a sure fix. its a simple power supply issue caused by the
start/kill/throttle switch assembly. change it and no more starting problems.
This i want to hear more about! You mean to tell me that the switch assembly is causing this and needs to be replaced? Can the internal contacts be cleaned/reinforced instead of replacing the entire thing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
I just hold down the starter button for a few seconds longer after the engine fires up. Haven't had an issue with it for over 2 years. Doesn't hurt the starter either.
I do but I kid you not I hold the button at least 3 seconds after it fires up and as soon as I let go the bike dies instantly this process repeats until i can get it started...people stare at me

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post #7 of 64 Old 02-04-2015, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g26er View Post
I do but I kid you not I hold the button at least 3 seconds after it fires up and as soon as I let go the bike dies instantly this process repeats until i can get it started...people stare at me
Don't be afraid to blimp the throttle very slightly if you need to do so.

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post #8 of 64 Old 02-04-2015, 08:14 PM
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post #9 of 64 Old 02-05-2015, 10:33 AM
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Yup, trying to leave work in front of the Harley guys & girls-very cool. Adding throttle didn't help and continuing to hold the start button down after something has started is counter intuitive.
Do the work or live with it.
Try hitting the starter button a few times before turning the key.

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post #10 of 64 Old 02-05-2015, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drivit View Post
continuing to hold the start button down after something has started is counter intuitive.
It may be counter intuitive, but it works... so intuition has nothing to do with it.

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post #11 of 64 Old 02-05-2015, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badmoon692008 View Post
It may be counter intuitive, but it works... so intuition has nothing to do with it.
+ 1. No issues after more than 2 years. On really bad days I just add a little throttle and it fires right up with out dying. Been a non issue this way.

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post #12 of 64 Old 02-05-2015, 12:58 PM
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i was able to scrap together $40 for a used throttle housing and a used switch assembly, works for me.

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post #13 of 64 Old 02-05-2015, 01:56 PM
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Has anyone tried powering the PCIII from an external source, while cranking the bike from it's own internal source?

I'm wondering if there is a voltage drop that is causing the PC III to just 'not respond' or turn-off prematurely, maybe sending incorrect messages to the ECU (to not fire, stop firing, stop fueling, etc.???).

Something to think about.

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post #14 of 64 Old 02-05-2015, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
Has anyone tried powering the PCIII from an external source, while cranking the bike from it's own internal source?

I'm wondering if there is a voltage drop that is causing the PC III to just 'not respond' or turn-off prematurely, maybe sending incorrect messages to the ECU (to not fire, stop firing, stop fueling, etc.???).

Something to think about.
I've wondered about this myself. Voltage drop can be a bitch for some electronics...

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post #15 of 64 Old 02-05-2015, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
Has anyone tried powering the PCIII from an external source, while cranking the bike from it's own internal source?

I'm wondering if there is a voltage drop that is causing the PC III to just 'not respond' or turn-off prematurely, maybe sending incorrect messages to the ECU (to not fire, stop firing, stop fueling, etc.???).

Something to think about.
its possible, i think others have tried powering it externally.... If that was the case, i wonder how much power the PC3 draws, then i would put an inline diode rated for more amps, and a big ass capacitor on the positive to smooth out power and reduce the voltage drop.

that would be somthing i would try if i had a PC3.... but im a cheap bastard, and i like to have my bike start on the first try and not have PC3's die and leave me stranded.

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post #16 of 64 Old 02-06-2015, 08:31 AM
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Correct me where I'm wrong, but isn't the whole advantage of the PCIII that it's programmable?

Don't you have "fuel maps" that are loaded into it?

If this is the case, then wouldn't changing the fuel map when starting or starting cold be the proper fix?

I can't see running a starter after the engine has fired as being good for the starter.

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post #17 of 64 Old 02-06-2015, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
Correct me where I'm wrong, but isn't the whole advantage of the PCIII that it's programmable?

Don't you have "fuel maps" that are loaded into it?

If this is the case, then wouldn't changing the fuel map when starting or starting cold be the proper fix?

I can't see running a starter after the engine has fired as being good for the starter.
I don't think that it's a fueling issue, more likely an electrical issue.

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post #18 of 64 Old 02-06-2015, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crimedog View Post
I don't think that it's a fueling issue, more likely an electrical issue.
Ok, so the PCIII takes more power than the stock computer does. The NightHawk 700S was known to have an issue with power to the starter. The fix was a $10 relay that only used the start switch to trigger the relay.

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post #19 of 64 Old 02-06-2015, 07:52 PM
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i took the enricher cable off, in 10 years i used it 3 times.
definitely feel a power increase as a result.
beat to death doesn't begin to describe it.

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post #20 of 64 Old 02-08-2015, 12:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drivit View Post
there is a sure fix. its a simple power supply issue caused by the
start/kill/throttle switch assembly. change it and no more starting problems.

To anyone reading this thread who has starting problems as a direct result of installing a power commander I say this:

Due to my superior intelllect, following Drivit's instructions via our PM correspondence and the scientific method I have determined that your start switch is at the very least partially responsible and most likely the cause of the problem.

Earlier today I took a dremel to the contacts inside the start switch, upon first inspection they didn't even look very bad but I decided to clean them anyways. I didn't even have to take the assembly off the bike just a small wire wheel alternating with a stone grinder attachment where the contacts looked really bad. When they were nice and shiny I cleaned with electrical contacts cleaner and reassembled them adding a dab of dielectric grease.

The bike started with a touch of the button I couldn't be happier

We'll see how long this lasts before the contacts crud up again this is conjecture but it could be an extra load the PCIII places on the system that exposes a weakness in the switch and the shit-for-solder honda used on these switch wires. I suspect that I'll eventually switch out the right side controls for a more robust switch if it starts failing again.

Here is a link to some light reading and pictures depicting the process:
Note, I didnt remove the switch or button just the tab with wires and cleaned everything from there

Starter Button Maintenance on Valkyries

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post #21 of 64 Old 02-08-2015, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g26er View Post
To anyone reading this thread who has starting problems as a direct result of installing a power commander I say this:

Due to my superior intelllect, following Drivit's instructions via our PM correspondence and the scientific method I have determined that your start switch is at the very least partially responsible and most likely the cause of the problem.

Earlier today I took a dremel to the contacts inside the start switch, upon first inspection they didn't even look very bad but I decided to clean them anyways. I didn't even have to take the assembly off the bike just a small wire wheel alternating with a stone grinder attachment where the contacts looked really bad. When they were nice and shiny I cleaned with electrical contacts cleaner and reassembled them adding a dab of dielectric grease.

The bike started with a touch of the button I couldn't be happier

We'll see how long this lasts before the contacts crud up again this is conjecture but it could be an extra load the PCIII places on the system that exposes a weakness in the switch and the shit-for-solder honda used on these switch wires. I suspect that I'll eventually switch out the right side controls for a more robust switch if it starts failing again.

Here is a link to some light reading and pictures depicting the process:
Note, I didnt remove the switch or button just the tab with wires and cleaned everything from there

Starter Button Maintenance on Valkyries
This seems like a big step forward, especially in the light of the starting drill you were previously required to use.

Good work, man, let's hope it's a fix that sticks. [I have a PCIII and no starting issues to date....]

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post #22 of 64 Old 02-08-2015, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g26er View Post
To anyone reading this thread who has starting problems as a direct result of installing a power commander I say this:

Due to my superior intelllect, following Drivit's instructions via our PM correspondence and the scientific method I have determined that your start switch is at the very least partially responsible and most likely the cause of the problem.

Earlier today I took a dremel to the contacts inside the start switch, upon first inspection they didn't even look very bad but I decided to clean them anyways. I didn't even have to take the assembly off the bike just a small wire wheel alternating with a stone grinder attachment where the contacts looked really bad. When they were nice and shiny I cleaned with electrical contacts cleaner and reassembled them adding a dab of dielectric grease.

The bike started with a touch of the button I couldn't be happier

We'll see how long this lasts before the contacts crud up again this is conjecture but it could be an extra load the PCIII places on the system that exposes a weakness in the switch and the shit-for-solder honda used on these switch wires. I suspect that I'll eventually switch out the right side controls for a more robust switch if it starts failing again.

Here is a link to some light reading and pictures depicting the process:
Note, I didnt remove the switch or button just the tab with wires and cleaned everything from there

Starter Button Maintenance on Valkyries
I hate to say it... but thats purely coincidence. The starter button simply turns on the relay to the starter.... maybe 1/10th of an amp flows through that button to actually run the starter.

If it is an electrical thing, the power commander needs CLEANER power during starting... this could be proven by powering the power commander by a seperate 12v source and seeing if that solves the issue during starting. If so a proper filtering capicatator and high enough amperage diodes could possible solve the issue for the long term.

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post #23 of 64 Old 02-08-2015, 07:55 PM
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The God of Coincidences chose to act at the exact time he cleaned up all the electrical contacts in his switch....? And immediately his bike started better?

That's certainly a major Divine Intervention.

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post #24 of 64 Old 02-08-2015, 08:52 PM
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Maybe it's not an issue of clean energy, but one of connectivity. If the power commander gets multiple 'start' signals during one press of the button (due to dirty contacts), it could very well just not be initializing properly, and not providing any fuel, or not enough.

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post #25 of 64 Old 02-09-2015, 12:48 PM
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Flame Time

trust me, take a wire cutter to the enricher cable and your good to go.

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post #26 of 64 Old 02-09-2015, 01:22 PM
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Are you talking about this one?
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post #27 of 64 Old 02-09-2015, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drivit View Post
trust me, take a wire cutter to the enricher cable and your good to go.
Could you elaborate why you think this makes a difference?

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post #28 of 64 Old 02-09-2015, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post

I hate to say it... but thats purely coincidence. The starter button simply turns on the relay to the starter.... maybe 1/10th of an amp flows through that button to actually run the starter.

If it is an electrical thing, the power commander needs CLEANER power during starting... this could be proven by powering the power commander by a seperate 12v source and seeing if that solves the issue during starting. If so a proper filtering capicatator and high enough amperage diodes could possible solve the issue for the long term.
Been tried with a 9 volt battery while connected to the bike. The pc3 is designed to be able to power up and function with a 9 volt battery. No such luck with that one.

I am interested to see if cleaning the contacts for the switch would make a difference. I'll have to test that myself this weekend.

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post #29 of 64 Old 02-09-2015, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
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trust me, take a wire cutter to the enricher cable and your good to go.
Now THIS is hilariously absurd. Are you actually serious?

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post #30 of 64 Old 02-09-2015, 02:38 PM
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absurd.....i..i....i'm speechless
thinking u can lead a horse to water but....

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post #31 of 64 Old 02-09-2015, 02:52 PM
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post #32 of 64 Old 02-09-2015, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drivit View Post
trust me, take a wire cutter to the enricher cable and your good to go.
Explain.

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post #33 of 64 Old 02-09-2015, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
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absurd.....i..i....i'm speechless
thinking u can lead a horse to water but....
You haven't provided any leads on this one... I would love to hear more on this.

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post #34 of 64 Old 02-09-2015, 04:01 PM
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Can you unhook it or do you have to cut it?

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post #35 of 64 Old 02-09-2015, 05:22 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crimedog View Post
Can you unhook it or do you have to cut it?
No unhooking wont change a thing, the cord must be cut, cut I say.

Ok seriously now someone try cleaning their start switch so we can resolve this power commander issue once and for all

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post #36 of 64 Old 02-09-2015, 09:39 PM
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actually i needed a cable for the clutch on my snow blower.
anyway i always thought the enricher was like a nitrous shot
so i was always pulling on it for passing and stuff, but it goes way faster without it.

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post #37 of 64 Old 02-09-2015, 10:08 PM
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^^ . Really???



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post #38 of 64 Old 02-10-2015, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drivit View Post
actually i needed a cable for the clutch on my snow blower.
anyway i always thought the enricher was like a nitrous shot
so i was always pulling on it for passing and stuff, but it goes way faster without it.
ummmm....
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post #39 of 64 Old 02-10-2015, 08:17 AM
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got snow if you want it
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post #40 of 64 Old 02-10-2015, 10:26 AM
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Steve???

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