PC3 map for stock bike after adding a Cat - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 75 Old 02-22-2012, 12:16 PM Thread Starter
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PC3 map for stock bike after adding a Cat

This weekend I am going to throw a Chrome catted Y-Pipe on my 2002 919. I am curious if any of the available pc3 maps will fit the new configuration. The bike is stock besides the cat.

My goal is to lean the EFI program from stock, and add a cat to burn help with stink.

Thoughts!?

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post #2 of 75 Old 02-22-2012, 01:01 PM
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Sock bile? Ewwwwwww.

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post #3 of 75 Old 02-22-2012, 01:31 PM
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Sock bile? Ewwwwwww.
LOL, I though the same thing. Must have auto-spell on. Fixed the title so nobody else throws up in their mouth.

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post #4 of 75 Old 02-22-2012, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beachwagon View Post
This weekend I am going to throw a Chrome catted Y-Pipe on my 2002 919. I am curious if any of the available pc3 maps will fit the new configuration. The bike is stock besides the cat.

My goal is to lean the EFI program from stock, and add a cat to burn help with stink.

Thoughts!?
The CAT won't help with the stink, believe me, it did nothing for me on my stock '07.

The PCIII may help a bit, don't count on it though. Your best bet is to MOVE it not eliminate it. Such as a 900rr setup to lower the exhaust exit point of the bike away from the low-pressure system behind the rider or passengers back (which causes updrafts of the exhaust to get on your clothes).

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post #5 of 75 Old 02-22-2012, 04:15 PM Thread Starter
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I totally get all that. I realize that it is not the total solution.(sock bike, haha sorry about that)

At the very least the PC3 will lean out the mix, and improve fuel efficiency and throttle response. The Cat will do something, however little. If it did nothing to the exhaust then CA wouldn't require them. Will it lessen the stink, I have no idea but I don't think it will make it worse.

My question is wether there is a pre-existing map for the PC3 that will fuel the bike more appropriately, and not throw as much unburnt gas out of the exhaust. And handle the addition of the Cat. This wouldn't be that much of a question if the new Y-Pipe weren't involved as I would just use the stock map.

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post #6 of 75 Old 02-22-2012, 04:17 PM
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the cat is not going to make any significant impact on what map you use. you'll see far greater gains having a tune mapped specifically for YOUR bike than you will worrying about what map works with the cat.

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post #7 of 75 Old 02-22-2012, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
the cat is not going to make any significant impact on what map you use. you'll see far greater gains having a tune mapped specifically for YOUR bike than you will worrying about what map works with the cat.
+1, the CAT is AFTER the fuel is burnt, so nothing the CAT does affects how the bike runs, or how the bike is fueled by FI.

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post #8 of 75 Old 02-22-2012, 04:24 PM
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You will notice less stink with the PCIII and a stock set up. I noticed less stink riding and just sitting there, although at the end of a long ride, my jacket will have some exhaust smell

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post #9 of 75 Old 02-22-2012, 04:26 PM Thread Starter
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Great to know, thanks for the response. Seems like I should plan to be making a lot of tweaks to the PC3

The cat should vaporize some of the left over hydrocarbons in the exhaust. The PC3 should keep good old fashion raw fuel out of the exhaust before the Cat comes into play.

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post #10 of 75 Old 02-22-2012, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
+1, the CAT is AFTER the fuel is burnt, so nothing the CAT does affects how the bike runs, or how the bike is fueled by FI.
According to the comments stated above, a sock bike needs a foot. But a stock bike does not need a pc with a muffler kind of cats in the bag. There should be zero problems without using the pc. Why? Because as stated, the engine has no fuel metering to know, say an 02 sensor might be a problem tuning, if it sees the pc move too rich.

If you want to lean out the bike some, run a new air cleaner element. A used, high mileage filter will cause it to run rich. There is your pc map move. Believe it or not. Only your hair dresser knows for sure. Stay sock for best performance. Try that first. It's not lean enough to harm the whiskers of that cat.

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post #11 of 75 Old 02-22-2012, 07:07 PM
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My hairdresser told me the bike has no O2 sensor. These bikes run rich and stink right off the showroom floor, so I don't think it's a dirty air cleaner.

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post #12 of 75 Old 02-22-2012, 07:15 PM
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Well, without getting too technical, I would turn the air screws out to lean out a little rich condition. There are way too many moves to lean her out before we need a pc setup. Especially for the street. Racing is a whole different ballgame if we want to run an open pipe.

This bike is rich for a reason? Say can we use the word, 'sporty ride in the higher rpm range?' We do not overheat but, we do know why it runs somewhat, 'cool down the hp too.' Wink-wink!

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post #13 of 75 Old 02-22-2012, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marylandmike View Post
My hairdresser told me the bike has no O2 sensor.
1+

We must have the same hairdresser. I did state the bike did not have an 02. I stated that if it did, it would recognize a rich/lean my computer alone or else! Your hands are more tied tuning a closed loop bike.

Why do think they use open loop for? So you can tune it. Without getting too technical with the hair tease, you mess with the 02, she goes limp if you think you just went into open loop. Hope that wasn't too over the top for some of the readers.

Tuning confuses some. For sure, it does me. I leave that to those hair dress hers that know for sure.

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post #14 of 75 Old 02-22-2012, 09:35 PM
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Dev, the problem with the 919 is not that it's too lean or too rich, the problem is that the fueling is all over the place, all over the throttle input %, all over the rpm range. in other words, it's horrible!!! the single most benefit of the PCIII (stock bike or not) is the smoothness of throttle input and man let me tell ya, it does wonders!

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post #15 of 75 Old 02-23-2012, 05:04 AM
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+1

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post #16 of 75 Old 02-23-2012, 07:37 AM
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Plus one one

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post #17 of 75 Old 02-23-2012, 09:23 AM
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+1 i never had a problem with the stink on the 919 but adding a pc smoothed it out, mad it more drivable.
also what fuel screws are you talking about? no screws on these bikes. or any other FI bike.
Quote:
Well, without getting too technical, I would turn the air screws out to lean out a little rich condition. There are way too many moves to lean her out before we need a pc setup. Especially for the street. Racing is a whole different ballgame if we want to run an open pipe
i can see a pc being more usefull on these bikes on the street than the track, for the simple fact that is smoothes out throttle operations. where is at the track just pin the damn thing and hope for the best.


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post #18 of 75 Old 02-23-2012, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by 3dcycle View Post
also what fuel screws are you talking about? no screws on these bikes. or any other FI bike.
we have an idle adjustment screw, that's about it. all other changes are made on a PCIII

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post #19 of 75 Old 02-23-2012, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
Dev, the problem with the 919 is not that it's too lean or too rich, the problem is that the fueling is all over the place, all over the throttle input %, all over the rpm range. in other words, it's horrible!!! the single most benefit of the PCIII (stock bike or not) is the smoothness of throttle input and man let me tell ya, it does wonders!
+ another one. Absolutely stone stock 03 bike, no cat (Euro / Pacific spec?), overall rideability improved enormously by addition of PCIII. It's there every time I roll the throttle on or off, shift gears, slow through traffic, etc. Huge improvement on this bike.

Found a stock map to start with, then leaned it off at idle to get rid of the blub-blub full-choke sound. Excellent!

Never had the stink, though, so can't comment on what might happen there...

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post #20 of 75 Old 02-23-2012, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
we have an idle adjustment screw, that's about it. all other changes are made on a PCIII
yes i know, it appeared to me as though he was talking fuel.air mixture screw on a carb.


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post #21 of 75 Old 02-23-2012, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dcycle View Post
also what fuel screws are you talking about? no screws on these bikes. or any other FI bike.
In your shop manual, go to section 5 I believe? Or, got to throttle sync or throttle body. Look in the back of the book for the section and page. How many holes are inside the venturi area?

Are there 3? How about looking at the throttle body photo. Do you see a low speed screw tower with a slot for a screwdriver?

'or any other FI bike' OH really?

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post #22 of 75 Old 02-23-2012, 07:11 PM
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yea but its not a fuel air screw. its a "throttle body sync" screw there is a difference.
this is going to "sync" your butterfly plates that is it. this will make it idle smoother and yes cause smoother throttle response off idle. but really will not change fuel to air ratio.
if you read the post above your last, it sounded like you are talking a real fuel air mixture screw like a carb would have. Not a sync screw.

Quote:
Well, without getting too technical, I would turn the air screws out to lean out a little rich condition
I will admit that i am wrong if this is possible, but would like you to get "technical"


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post #23 of 75 Old 02-23-2012, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dev View Post
Without getting too technical with the hair tease, you mess with the 02, she goes limp if you think you just went into open loop. Hope that wasn't too over the top for some of the readers.

Tuning confuses some. For sure, it does me. I leave that to those hair dress hers that know for sure.
Definitely over the top for me and now I'm even more confused by this thread.

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post #24 of 75 Old 02-23-2012, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
Definitely over the top for me and now I'm even more confused by this thread.

you would thing with all the 900rr exhaust swaps,someone would've noticed a wire and an O2 sensor.

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post #25 of 75 Old 02-23-2012, 09:09 PM
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you would thing with all the 900rr exhaust swaps,someone would've noticed a wire and an O2 sensor.
L o L !!
Have a nice evening.
I'm just home from a 2 week biz trip and kinda frazzled by some of the posts.

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post #26 of 75 Old 02-23-2012, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
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if you read the post above your last, it sounded like you are talking a real fuel air mixture screw like a carb would have. Not a sync screw.
Correct. How do you think I got the bike to idle so low? So I can go deep into a corner and not chatter the back wheel. I use the front brake only. Last thing you want to do is question I do not use my back brake, I'll bring that photo in. This is high tech FI work. Lots of hidden stuff to be found. Think out of the box or get left behind is all I'm saying. FI is a different animal 'in both loops.'
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I study AFR tuning. I try to run as smooth as possible so I can make the engine transition without that hesitation or gargle. Here are two different bikes. One bike is open loop, the other is closed loop. I'm reading the AFR off both bikes. Taking the same test roads.


Quote:
I will admit that i am wrong if this is possible, but would like you to get "technical"
I will admit as fast as possible, I get something wrong. I'll have to call Honda and have them change their manuals. I quoted them and now I'm paying for it? LOL

Even when Honda came out with the carb emission type Kehin, you had to drill out the emission caps, no? Here is 'technical.' How many air holes are shown inside the throttle body venturi?

Cut to the chase so I can admit I'm wrong. My photo needs to be changed in the factory shop manual or my eyes are going.

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post #27 of 75 Old 02-24-2012, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
L o L !!
Have a nice evening.
I'm just home from a 2 week biz trip and kinda frazzled by some of the posts.
Dude, you think this is frazzling - you shoulda been here for the much-derailed "Long Ride" thread.

It wuz an eye-opener!

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post #28 of 75 Old 02-24-2012, 02:47 PM
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well i just ran through the Fi section on my manual, did not see one mention of a air/fuel screw. the closest i could come to it is the "starter enrichment" adjustment (quoted from honda)


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post #29 of 75 Old 02-26-2012, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dcycle View Post
well i just ran through the Fi section on my manual, did not see one mention of a air/fuel screw. the closest i could come to it is the "starter enrichment" adjustment (quoted from honda)
I'm deliberately using this as a platform to respond from, as it comes from someone who knows about the manual and has actually looked at it.
Good on you, Sir !

1
There are no idle air screws on the 919.

2
There is an start/idle enrichment circuit for cold starts.

3
The enrichment circuit is manually actuated by the pull nob when intended, but is controlled by starter valves.
This circuit is inoperative unless the nob is pulled.

4
The starter valves are factory set, with 3 being adjustable and one being fixed.
One can revisit the settings of the 3 adjustable units through the life cycle of the engine, and the adjustments are made on the basis of getting the vacuum readings all the same.
Again, this circuit is inoperative unless the nob is pulled.

5
There are no Idle Air Control screws on the 919's F I system.
However some other Honda's do have Idle Air Control screws on their F I systems, a good example of this being the GL1800, which not only has such screws on the throttle bodies, but also has a car like Idle Air Control valve that is electrically energized and manipulated by the ECM.

6
Unless an external device such as a PC is attached, or the starter valves are actuated, it is impossible to change the ECU controlled fuel metering under any engine mode, be it cold start and idle, or hot full throttle.

7
The throttle blades are factory set, and there is no instruction on how to adjust them. Mr. Honda does not want any of us messing with this. IF they were to be adjusted, perhaps as a result of someone ignoring the warnings about the painted screws, then some set screw would have to be tweaked in response to a vacuum gauge.

8
There is a reference to Idle Valves.
I do not know if they mean a dedicated set of Idle Valves, or if it is a manual error and Starter Valves is correct.
In other words, there might be a dedicated set of Idle Valves in addition to the Starter Valves, but I don't think so.
And the Starter Valve settings would be messed up if the Throttle Blades got out of synch.

9
If the Enrichment Circuit is not manually activated by pulling the nob, starting mode fueling will be purely a function of the ECU stored map as adjusted by the inlet air temp, absolute air pressure, and coolant temp.

10
Dev is correct re some F I systems having screws air, but 919s are not in that category.
And, any such screws are for idle control only.

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post #30 of 75 Old 02-26-2012, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dev View Post
According to the comments stated above, a sock bike needs a foot. But a stock bike does not need a pc with a muffler kind of cats in the bag. There should be zero problems without using the pc. Why? Because as stated, the engine has no fuel metering to know, say an 02 sensor might be a problem tuning, if it sees the pc move too rich.

If you want to lean out the bike some, run a new air cleaner element. A used, high mileage filter will cause it to run rich. There is your pc map move. Believe it or not. Only your hair dresser knows for sure. Stay sock for best performance. Try that first. It's not lean enough to harm the whiskers of that cat.
In my opinion, this is all highly erroneous.

1
A stock bike may not "need" a PC, just like no new carb'ed bike needed a tinker tune, even though any tinker tuned carb'd stock bike could be made to run better, just like a properly remapped 919 will when it has a PC on it.

2
Use a loaded up air filter to alter the A/F ratio?
Are you nuts ?
How loaded up ?
And with what ?
To the point it can't pass air ?
AND what is the MAP going to tell the ECU to do when it senses the high vacuum level ?

3
Stay stock for best performance ?
What is best ?
My bike runs better, gets better mileage, and is unstock.
The changes are minor, a set of slip-ons, a PC3, and some extremely sharp custom mapping.

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post #31 of 75 Old 02-26-2012, 08:06 PM
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+1 mcromo

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post #32 of 75 Old 02-27-2012, 06:06 AM
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well thanks for backing me (for the most) I was on the right track with it. It was getting to be like fighting about scubing a tire in with sand

Long story short though for the OP, Yes do install a PC on a stock bike.


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post #33 of 75 Old 02-27-2012, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
I'm deliberately using this as a platform to respond from, as it comes from someone who knows about the manual and has actually looked at it.
Good on you, Sir !
Well, what I consider a tower where an air screw would be, could you look under the t-body with a mirror, show where there are none and the book does. Unless that picture is deceiving in the manual.


Quote:
There are no idle air screws on the 919.
I have a closed looped bike. It has it's own idle screws.
1. One hole ~ Is for the intake air pressure sensor.
2. Hole two ~ Is for the idle air screw.
3. Third Hole is the fuel pressure regulator (if applied)

Are we catching a 3-ring circle?
1. Fuel - Spark - Compression = 3 ring circle
2. Solid - Liquid - Gas = 3 more amigos
3. Breath in - Hole your breath - Exhale = Ding-Ding-Ding! 3-Have a winner!

Quote:
The enrichment circuit is manually actuated by the pull nob when intended, but is controlled by starter valves.
This circuit is inoperative unless the nob is pulled.
I'm the thick one here. I get confused easily. What you are saying is, this is a choke that has to be used when warm also? Or, are you saying this is only for morning start?


Quote:
The starter valves are factory set, with 3 being adjustable and one being fixed.
BINGO! Say hello to my nu frien. Put two and two together. "This is my rich valve (always sucking fuel out). I'm going to close some fuel down." If I am in the opposite, meaning, air screw hole, I am now a fuel hole. I am either or... Who has a grasp of the t-body here? Do we know where there is fuel plumbed to this adjustable air screw that is fixed? Get it? The one screw is fixed. We are looking at a throttle plate, not an air screw that is fixed to shaft. That is the main plate you balance with the loss of some compression on the other cylinder. That is the first thing you do before you set the valves or sync is to check compression or you over bleed the vacuum to a poor or low compression cylinder = Poor idle.

Quote:
One can revisit the settings of the 3 adjustable units through the life cycle of the engine, and the adjustments are made on the basis of getting the vacuum readings all the same.
Again, this circuit is inoperative unless the nob is pulled.
You mean, set this in the tuning loop, in other words. Yes?


Quote:
There are no Idle Air Control screws on the 919's F I system.
However some other Honda's do have Idle Air Control screws on their F I systems, a good example of this being the GL1800, which not only has such screws on the throttle bodies, but also has a car like Idle Air Control valve that is electrically energized and manipulated by the ECM.
Either FI runs with those 3 variable holes or I'm getting schooled by Honda's engineering dominance. A GL has 3 variables with the IAC systems, but the 919 has eliminated a 3rd hole and no one has yet to show the venturi passage for the 2 hole combo.


Quote:
Unless an external device such as a PC is attached, or the starter valves are actuated, it is impossible to change the ECU controlled fuel metering under any engine mode, be it cold start and idle, or hot full throttle.
Again, that cold start is for... That passage is like air passage where homehee don't need no choke if we tell the water it's hot the watt the hack attack.

Quote:
The throttle blades are factory set, and there is no instruction on how to adjust them. Mr. Honda does not want any of us messing with this. IF they were to be adjusted, perhaps as a result of someone ignoring the warnings about the painted screws, then some set screw would have to be tweaked in response to a vacuum gauge.
See, we are going back and forth here between air screws and IAC screws. This is still a tuning tool where homehee don't need a pc.


Quote:
There is a reference to Idle Valves.
I do not know if they mean a dedicated set of Idle Valves, or if it is a manual error and Starter Valves is correct.
In other words, there might be a dedicated set of Idle Valves in addition to the Starter Valves, but I don't think so.
And the Starter Valve settings would be messed up if the Throttle Blades got out of synch.
Are we catching all this yet? You are explaining all this to me and I am confusing you so it makes absolute sense. I cannot see one less vacuum hole in the scheme of FI.


Quote:
Dev is correct re some F I systems having screws air, but 919s are not in that category.
And, any such screws are for idle control only.
They may not be in that category, but if fuel enters in the constant or air enters in the constant, do we have a tuning out of some richness without a pc, yes or no?

And the air cleaner deal. Did we notice how we become rich with a dirty air cleaner? If we want to destroy our cylinder walls, then we run a racing air cleaner, let some air come in on the leaner side, we remove some stock pipe and that moves some air in there too.

3 variables without pc:

1. Stupid move, but no air cleaner is leaner.
2. A nice loud pipe to add more lean.
3. The air or fuel screws and more air is lean, or close the idle down or off is the leaner machiner.

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post #34 of 75 Old 02-27-2012, 08:40 AM
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Page 1-2 of the 919 manual. Lower left. Note the throttle body ID. Note the jet towers that are used as one blank. They just drill one side, blank the other. What you do not see are the other two jet tower holes of the other two. Those are drilled on that side of the same throttle body blanks.

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post #35 of 75 Old 02-27-2012, 08:56 AM
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dev,
why would you want to tune the bike with a dirty air filter?isn't the idea to make it run better?(ie. more power?).
the dirty air filter is like tuning a carb to run well with the choke closed,can it be done? yes. will it rob power? yes!

i mean, the whole reason for porting the intake tract is to smooth and increase the air/fuel charge. the whole goal for most of us is to make more "useable" power, if it runs a tiny bit better but makes less power i believe most if not all would pass on that.

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post #36 of 75 Old 02-27-2012, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dev View Post
Well, what I consider a tower where an air screw would be, could you look under the t-body with a mirror, show where there are none and the book does. Unless that picture is deceiving in the manual.


I have a closed looped bike. It has it's own idle screws.
1. One hole ~ Is for the intake air pressure sensor.
2. Hole two ~ Is for the idle air screw.
3. Third Hole is the fuel pressure regulator (if applied)

Are we catching a 3-ring circle?
1. Fuel - Spark - Compression = 3 ring circle
2. Solid - Liquid - Gas = 3 more amigos
3. Breath in - Hole your breath - Exhale = Ding-Ding-Ding! 3-Have a winner!

I'm the thick one here. I get confused easily. What you are saying is, this is a choke that has to be used when warm also? Or, are you saying this is only for morning start?


BINGO! Say hello to my nu frien. Put two and two together. "This is my rich valve (always sucking fuel out). I'm going to close some fuel down." If I am in the opposite, meaning, air screw hole, I am now a fuel hole. I am either or... Who has a grasp of the t-body here? Do we know where there is fuel plumbed to this adjustable air screw that is fixed? Get it? The one screw is fixed. We are looking at a throttle plate, not an air screw that is fixed to shaft. That is the main plate you balance with the loss of some compression on the other cylinder. That is the first thing you do before you set the valves or sync is to check compression or you over bleed the vacuum to a poor or low compression cylinder = Poor idle.

You mean, set this in the tuning loop, in other words. Yes?


Either FI runs with those 3 variable holes or I'm getting schooled by Honda's engineering dominance. A GL has 3 variables with the IAC systems, but the 919 has eliminated a 3rd hole and no one has yet to show the venturi passage for the 2 hole combo.


Again, that cold start is for... That passage is like air passage where homehee don't need no choke if we tell the water it's hot the watt the hack attack.

See, we are going back and forth here between air screws and IAC screws. This is still a tuning tool where homehee don't need a pc.


Are we catching all this yet? You are explaining all this to me and I am confusing you so it makes absolute sense. I cannot see one less vacuum hole in the scheme of FI.


They may not be in that category, but if fuel enters in the constant or air enters in the constant, do we have a tuning out of some richness without a pc, yes or no?

And the air cleaner deal. Did we notice how we become rich with a dirty air cleaner? If we want to destroy our cylinder walls, then we run a racing air cleaner, let some air come in on the leaner side, we remove some stock pipe and that moves some air in there too.

3 variables without pc:

1. Stupid move, but no air cleaner is leaner.
2. A nice loud pipe to add more lean.
3. The air or fuel screws and more air is lean, or close the idle down or off is the leaner machiner.
A
Do you actually have a 919 or ever worked on one ?
I really truly and sincerely hope you say No, because I'll be in orbit if you say Yes, and don't know about the manually operated cold start knob that needs to be pulled on really cold days.

B
The drawing on page 1-2 is not complete nor definitive.
But it's quite easy to correctly interpret once reconciled against Chapter 5 and a look at the bike.
The upper posts are where the vacuum tubes for each inlet go.
The vacuum tubes that ultimately are ganged and connected to the MAP.
Not showing is the second set that California spec bikes have re the evaporative collection system that only those bikes have.
The lower posts are blanked off ports that are common with the upper posts.
The lower posts to only exist for reasons of manufacturing methods, likely the ease of casting the part as a blind end at that point would be more difficult to successfully perform with every casting.

C
In the most absolute of terms, there are no idle air control screws or valves on a 919.

D
In the most absolute of terms, there is no idle richness adjustment within the confines of a stock 919 F I system.

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post #37 of 75 Old 02-27-2012, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewvir View Post
dev,
why would you want to tune the bike with a dirty air filter?isn't the idea to make it run better?(ie. more power?).
I am not saying that. I am saying, hey, if your bike is running rich, did you check the air cleaner? Are you running dirty? Did you know, a dirty air cleaner will run the bike rich? It is so subtle, it chokes off in a linear fashion you don't notice it till one day?

What I am saying is to check the air cleaner in a round about way. I do not give out an answer. I make it so, 'in the absolute,' it is hard to get out of that loop.

For example. Here is an absolute loop.
Will the engine start if 3 variables are missing?:

1. Fuel? Of course.
2. Spark. Can we light the BBQ without?
3. Compression. Are there any more variables?

Bring it in. Are we in an absolute loop? You bet!

Quote:
the dirty air filter is like tuning a carb to run well with the choke closed,can it be done? yes. will it rob power? yes!
Thank you! Now, I would go and check my air cleaner, not install a pc.

Quote:
i mean, the whole reason for porting the intake tract is to smooth and increase the air/fuel charge.
Are you sure you want to say "MORE AIR?"

Don't tell me you are a more air kind of guy? Who else>

I think you need to explain that to me. Step by step. I want to see 'more air' enter the chamber.

Butter? Is there butter somewhere?

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post #38 of 75 Old 02-27-2012, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
A
Do you actually have a 919 or ever worked on one ?
I really truly and sincerely hope you say No, because I'll be in orbit if you say Yes, and don't know about the manually operated cold start knob that needs to be pulled on really cold days.
No, never worked on one. That has nothing to do with theory and loopholes to tuning a computer bike.

Quote:
The drawing on page 1-2 is not complete nor definitive.
But it's quite easy to correctly interpret once reconciled against Chapter 5 and a look at the bike.
Page 5-61. Note the the 2 steel hose nipples are pounded into the t-body at the 12 o'clock position, being the t-body is upside down. Now, to end the 3 hole variable in the t-body, notice the 3 hole and follow that air tower on the outside of the t-body. Where would it get that 3rd hole if the 2 steel nipples up top are directly holed in said position.

I think we have 3 variables now? You say no?


Quote:
In the most absolute of terms, there are no idle air control screws or valves on a 919.
Semantics.


Quote:
In the most absolute of terms, there is no idle richness adjustment within the confines of a stock 919 F I system.
If we are running the same system and I believe it has an idle cable, where my aprilia does not [says] I cannot control the idle if I lean out the fuel. The fuel is the idle. The 9'er has a cable to set the idle up or down, we ingest more air then fuel.

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post #39 of 75 Old 02-27-2012, 02:38 PM
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[QUOTE=Dev;488296]No, never worked on one. That has nothing to do with theory and loopholes to tuning a computer bike.

Page 5-61. Note the the 2 steel hose nipples are pounded into the t-body at the 12 o'clock position, being the t-body is upside down. Now, to end the 3 hole variable in the t-body, notice the 3 hole and follow that air tower on the outside of the t-body. Where would it get that 3rd hole if the 2 steel nipples up top are directly holed in said position.

I think we have 3 variables now? You say no?


Semantics.


If we are running the same system and I believe it has an idle cable, where my aprilia does not [says] I cannot control the idle if I lean out the fuel. The fuel is the idle. The 9'er has a cable to set the idle up or down, we ingest more air then fuel.[/QUOTE

The steel nipples are for the vacuum hose sets.
It's a California version depicted, that being the reason there are two per throttle instead of just one.

The 919 does NOT have a cable to set the idle up or down, as the only thing actuated by the cold start cable is the starter valves. The throttle blade shaft is not acted upon by the cable. The cold start cable is for cold start enrichment and nothing else but.

If you really want to help instead of tossing out confusing and misleading statements, then do a proper description of the specifics of the entire 919 F I system, because that is what most of us have, and none of them have feedback loops using O2 sensors in the exhaust.
The 919 does not have bonafide idle air control.
The 919 does not have idle A/F ratio adjustment.

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post #40 of 75 Old 02-27-2012, 02:45 PM
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+1.


and then +1000 to that, just to make sure.

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