PC3 and Delkevic Slip-ons - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 25 Old 08-21-2011, 06:34 AM Thread Starter
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PC3 and Delkevic Slip-ons

07919Dave and I will jointly post our experiences with using the Power Commander 3 USB on our 919's with Delkevic slip-ons. We will be experimenting with different maps and maybe get a dyno run at some point. I have the silencer inserts installed on my bike while I believe Dave does not, so this thread should be helpful to others with either set up.

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post #2 of 25 Old 08-21-2011, 07:04 AM Thread Starter
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I noticed when I installed my Delkevic's that I seemed to have lost a bit of low-end and mid-range power and throttle response. Clearly some map changes were in store. I also wanted to try to lean out the rich spots to reduce the infamous and embarrassing exhaust stink. The PC3 should help with both objectives.

The install went ok. I had a bit of difficulty trying to figure out how to unplug the main connector on the ECU in the tight space under the frame, etc. I followed the directions to loosen the mud guard, etc. But it was still pretty tight to figure out.

I also had difficulty soldering the gray line to tap into the red/yellow line. I didn't have the PC3 tap since my unit was used and I read here that soldering is the way to go anyway. The problem was that there was very little wire to work with and the space was tight. I am going to go back and redo it by opening up the harness sheath and soldering on extensions to do a better job.

I went to mount the unit on the frame with Velcro in the position shown in the instructions. There is no way that would work as it is in the way of the seat base. I shifted it more towards the tank under where the manual in the seat base would be.

The first map that I tried was the "acclaimed" Two Brothers map from the PC site, aka "the Simpson map" from the PC3 Map Challenge thread:

https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...=Map+challenge

Wow! This map brought the bike alive again, then some. The low end and mid range pull is smooth and strong and the throttle response was great. My butt dyno tells me that the bike is stronger than stock now.

There is a slight roughness at very low throttle and slow speed at about 2500 rpm, i.e. slow start in traffic. This isn't a big deal and I might try to play with the map numbers in this range later.

I ran this map with the buttons set at low +1, med -1, high -2 as per other using this map (see the thread above).

Unfortunately, the stink is still there. More fine tuning is needed. I only ever notice the stink at idle when the wind is at my back, so I will focus there later. But first, time to try more maps.

I ran the Two Brothers for a week, including a 23 hour road trip weekend. Next came the last LDH Mori map. Tough act to follow for my bike setup, altitude, etc.

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post #3 of 25 Old 08-21-2011, 08:02 AM
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Great start! Looking forward to this as I am looking at a PC this fall and slip ons over the winter.

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post #4 of 25 Old 08-21-2011, 11:10 AM
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ottaw, i forget what elevation you're at but i hope this helps. the erion cans that i have and the cans you have are very similar and it's interesting that you had the same experience i did with the simpson map. i had the exact same issues with the low end and tried several maps which gave up the mid range improvement that i noticed the most in the simpson map. therefore i had my bike dynotuned and the simpson map was pretty close while the bottom end was pretty rough. my tune fixed the bottom end and tweaked the fuel curves to make it a bit more smooth which netted another hp and roughly .7 ft pounds of torque. give it a try since it's similar to the simpson map and see if it fixes the low end roughness for you.

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post #5 of 25 Old 08-21-2011, 11:53 AM Thread Starter
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Will do. Thanks for the info because I wasn't thinking of trying it. I think mcromo sent me a copy of it with a few others. I will try it this week.

I will do a write up of my Mori map observations in a bit.

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post #6 of 25 Old 08-21-2011, 12:18 PM Thread Starter
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Ottawa elevation is around 230'.

This past week I tried out a map that LDH made for a 919 with Moriwaki slipons while in Louisiana, the mw919mori4 map.

Immediately I noticed that the slight roughness, almost a hesitation, that I experienced on the Two Brothers map was worse and extended up to about 3500 rpm. Again, this is only at very small throttle openings like quietly pulling away from the house or in slow traffic. More aggressive throttle eliminates (or bypasses) the problem, but when there is a car in front of you it's not an option.

Low and mid throttle response seemed to suffer a little compared to the Two Brothers. After 4000 rpm it pulled pretty strong, but not quite as strong as the Two Brothers map. I did a map compare and I was surprised how much leaner the Two Brothers was for the majority of the map.

I tried leaning out the map with by going -2 and then -4 on the Low button, but it didn't seem to help much.

The stink at idle was still there with this map, unfortunately. So I'm 0-2 on the stink issue.

An interesting observations that I would like to hear people chime in on: on a hot day when the bike was running a little above the notch on the coolant gauge most of the low end roughness cleared up. What's going on in these conditions?

I have switched back to the Two Brothers map to compare again and I will try PVster's Erion map next. Based on his observations noted above, I am excited to give it a try.

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post #7 of 25 Old 08-21-2011, 05:14 PM
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Back from my Backpacking adventure and will install in PCIII as soon as I can. Good job so far Ottowa! OH, You are right I am running with OUT the inserts.

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post #8 of 25 Old 08-22-2011, 11:41 AM
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So found an old laptop with XP on it so that I can install the software. Damn Dynojet for not making it MAC compatable!!!!

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post #9 of 25 Old 08-22-2011, 12:01 PM Thread Starter
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This morning I had my first ride since switching back to the Two Brothers map. Man, the bike sure runs sweet with that map! I'm going to continue playing with others before I try fine tuning a few spots on this one, but it will be tough to beat.

Questions for PC3/FI pros:

1) Are the button values equal to the map values. In other words, is a Low +1 the same as adding a +1 to all the values for in that RPM range?

2) If there is roughness that goes away when the bike is really well warmed up (hot), does that mean that the map is slightly too lean for cooler running in the affected engine speed/throttle opening?

3) Almost all maps that I have looked at have "0"'s at zero throttle opening (idle). If I lean the zero throttle opening in the 1000, 1250, 1500 rpm values will that lean the idle? Since my exhaust smell is only noticeable (and an embarrassment) when at idle at a stop, I am hoping that I can lean the idle in this way. Obviously I would have to pay attention to starting issues.

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post #10 of 25 Old 08-25-2011, 08:02 PM
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Okay I install the PCIII USB and it came preloaded with a stock map in fact to quote it it says.

"Stock Exhaust
Stock Air Filter

Last updated 6/08/XX
Michale Wheeler"

I think this is LDH's Stock map. I fired her up and she sounded a little more throaty just with that. However, I will start playing with maps and getting it dialed in real soon.

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post #11 of 25 Old 08-25-2011, 08:04 PM Thread Starter
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post #12 of 25 Old 08-26-2011, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottawa919 View Post

3) Almost all maps that I have looked at have "0"'s at zero throttle opening (idle). If I lean the zero throttle opening in the 1000, 1250, 1500 rpm values will that lean the idle? Since my exhaust smell is only noticeable (and an embarrassment) when at idle at a stop, I am hoping that I can lean the idle in this way. Obviously I would have to pay attention to starting issues.
I've been running my idle values down into negative territory to try and get rid of the blub-blub idle, that makes it sound like the choke is on, so yes, you can. No starting issues as yet.

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post #13 of 25 Old 08-26-2011, 09:23 PM
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So tomorrow morning will be my first ride with the PCIII I will also try out the new GoPro too. Two birds with one ride to work. I hope the GoPro will look good as it will be lit by my headlight and the dawn sun depending on how early I leave for work tomorrow.

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post #14 of 25 Old 09-13-2011, 09:08 AM
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Okay, after a few weeks of riding around with LDHs stock map on a non stock 9er, I have come to the conclusion that I like it. A lot. However, if the intrest of this experiment I am going to try other maps today. I have the bike fully warmed up and I am on my laptop sitting outside connected to the PCIII USB. Lets do this!

OH by the way the Google Streetview car went by a few times while I have been sitting out side next to the bike. I'll look for mself in a few weeks and post the picture up!

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post #15 of 25 Old 09-13-2011, 09:21 AM Thread Starter
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Try the Two Brothers! I'm interested in the outcome.

Cool about the Google car. You should have flipped a bird as it went by, hehe.

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post #16 of 25 Old 09-13-2011, 10:20 AM
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Put the Enron(?) slip-ons at 5K ft above sea level map in. I am about to go play. Just setting up some GoPro mounts on my helmet. Let's see how it does.

Also need to point out firmware is 2.3.2 Fuel and if the engine is cool I need to give it a quick rev in-order for the bike to stay running...... PVster you find out anything on your cold start issue yet?

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post #17 of 25 Old 09-13-2011, 03:37 PM
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Okay went for a 100mi ride with the Erion Dual Slip w/ Stock air filter on 5K ASL (Above Sea Level) map. Hmmmmmmm........I like it. The power band felt very smooth through out. And middle range torque was improved over the LDH Stock map. Roll on power was decent except at 50mph in 6th gear RPMs at 3K. She felt sluggish until getting to 60mph 4K RPM. But if I was at 55mph and 3500RPM roll on was back to being decent.

Side note the issue with cold startup has gone away after loading this map. When I loaded up the map the bike had been sitting for 30min after being fully warmed up. I loaded and then started and it was fine. During the first part of the ride I rode to a little bar and had some lunch; all told I was in there for an hour. I came outside gear up and she fired up fine. Made the 50 miles back to Monument, CO and stopped and had a beer. I was stopped for 30min. Bike fired up fine again. Time to compare maps.....

Also Ottawa919....NO STINK!!! My jacket hardly smells, but that could be from all the other rides, and I don't smell one bit. I bet if my wife came home she wouldn't even know I went for a ride. Normally the garage smells, and then the kitchen where I hang my jacket smells but not today. Give this map a try and see how you like it. I got it out of g00g3lITs dropbox.

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post #18 of 25 Old 09-13-2011, 03:47 PM
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I wouldn't think 30 minutes, or even an hour, would render the engine 'cold' enough to warrant emulating the 'cold start' conditions.

I would think overnight, etc. When the core internals of the engine, oil, everything, are at ambient temps.

Let us know how she starts in the morning.

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post #19 of 25 Old 09-13-2011, 04:15 PM
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Fair enough, but that's how long it took for it to mess up running LDHs stock map. But I'll fire it up in the morning and see how she does then too.

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post #20 of 25 Old 09-13-2011, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
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Fair enough, but that's how long it took for it to mess up running LDHs stock map. But I'll fire it up in the morning and see how she does then too.
Gotcha. I only stated the above as mine 'sometimes' has an issue, but only overnight. And it's a bit worse when humidity is up, especially after a cold rain shower. Putting it in neutral tends to help it in idle, probably due to slightly less drag on the engine.

I'm interested to see what happens.

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post #21 of 25 Old 09-13-2011, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
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An interesting observations that I would like to hear people chime in on: on a hot day when the bike was running a little above the notch on the coolant gauge most of the low end roughness cleared up. What's going on in these conditions?
The Honda ECU has a series of richness adjustment steps as a function of coolant temp. There are said to be 7 distinct temperature range brackets.
So, your mapping can be perfect at 185 F coolant temp, and be off at 200 F.
My understanding is that the higher temp brackets enrichens the map, perhaps as a power softening and therefore cooling strategy, and/or as a "just in case adjustment" to correct for some upset condition of lean-ness, hi load lean running always creating higher operating temperatures.

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post #22 of 25 Old 09-14-2011, 09:30 AM
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Okay went back and read, so from 1600 yesterday till 1020 this morning she has been sitting. The garage is at 56oF now and probably got into the 40s last night (Cold front coming through).
Insert key, turn bike on, let FI run and other checks, press ignition button. And she started up no problem at all. I hit it once really quick and she fired up as she use to do. I'll need to bring in the old xp laptop and compare maps and see what the difference is. 18hr sit time........

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post #23 of 25 Old 09-14-2011, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07919Dave View Post
Okay went back and read, so from 1600 yesterday till 1020 this morning she has been sitting. The garage is at 56oF now and probably got into the 40s last night (Cold front coming through).
Insert key, turn bike on, let FI run and other checks, press ignition button. And she started up no problem at all. I hit it once really quick and she fired up as she use to do. I'll need to bring in the old xp laptop and compare maps and see what the difference is. 18hr sit time........
Good to hear. That is on LDH's map?

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post #24 of 25 Old 09-14-2011, 09:44 AM
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Nope the Erion Dual slip on w/stock air filter at 5000 above sea level. I was having issues with the LDH stock map.

But.... I on my bike I have Delkevic Dual slips on w/a K&N air filter. And I am at 6800 feet above seal level. So not stock by any mean. However I liked running LDHs map it did improve power. I like the Erion map better.

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post #25 of 25 Old 09-15-2011, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
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I'll need to bring in the old xp laptop and compare maps and see what the difference is.
No need, the software loads into and works perfectly with Win 7.
Even the old software does, as in that for pre usb PCs.

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