OMG new tires = new bike !! - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 12 Old 03-04-2019, 08:29 PM Thread Starter
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OMG new tires = new bike !!

I knew I was overdue for new tires and I let it slide WAY too long. The tires I replaced were 10 & 12 years old.

Just got the new S21s setup and did my first full day riding. Some 60 miles and it REALLY made a difference.

The lean is super smooth and stable, night and day.

No more dancing on the rain grooves. Those rain grooves where nerve racking, esp when they were swerving or on a turn.

The clicking when I hit a 1/2" bump is about 1/2 gone, my guess is that the 10+ year old rubber was just too stiff.

There's not excuse for running tires that long, but I was only doing very limited riding. Now I'm riding a LOT more, so that's why I pushed so quickly for the new tires.

Now I just have to figure out how to dial in the suspension and find that clicking when I hit bumps.

Who knows, maybe I'll do the full fork/shock upgrade this year.

Any good books/videos for an amateur to learn about how to setup a suspension?

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post #2 of 12 Old 03-04-2019, 11:55 PM
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Well done.
If ya like what new tires have done just wait till the suspension is sorted.

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post #3 of 12 Old 03-05-2019, 05:30 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
Well done.
If ya like what new tires have done just wait till the suspension is sorted.
Can't wait, just need to know how. Time to do some home work.

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post #4 of 12 Old 03-05-2019, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
Can't wait, just need to know how. Time to do some home work.
just pulled up old thread "If only Just One Book" for you

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post #5 of 12 Old 03-05-2019, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
I knew I was overdue for new tires and I let it slide WAY too long. The tires I replaced were 10 & 12 years old.

Just got the new S21s setup and did my first full day riding. Some 60 miles and it REALLY made a difference.

The lean is super smooth and stable, night and day.

No more dancing on the rain grooves. Those rain grooves where nerve racking, esp when they were swerving or on a turn.

The clicking when I hit a 1/2" bump is about 1/2 gone, my guess is that the 10+ year old rubber was just too stiff.

There's not excuse for running tires that long, but I was only doing very limited riding. Now I'm riding a LOT more, so that's why I pushed so quickly for the new tires.

Now I just have to figure out how to dial in the suspension and find that clicking when I hit bumps.

Who knows, maybe I'll do the full fork/shock upgrade this year.

Any good books/videos for an amateur to learn about how to setup a suspension?
Yikes!
Ancient rubber.
My guess is that you hadn't been doing much cold wet road riding on the oldies............
Those new ones must be a whole new world for you.
Next you'll be scratching.

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post #6 of 12 Old 03-05-2019, 01:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
Yikes!
Ancient rubber.
My guess is that you hadn't been doing much cold wet road riding on the oldies............
Those new ones must be a whole new world for you.
Next you'll be scratching.
I'm embarrassed by how old they are. I knew they were old and then I just forgot about thing for a while.

Looking at the tread, they really had a bad shape to them and were not soft and sticky.

There's a number of rain grooves that I rode on that caused the bike to dance like crazy.

Lane splitting was rough because you get some rough patches between the lanes and it really dances all over the place.

I can't explain how much better it is to lean. It's like magic, I can smoothly lean at will, it's amazing, I'm having a blast.

I really hope others will take notice of this and change out your tires BEFORE they get 12 years old. Don't look at the tread, look at the age. Mine were cracking and down to the wear bar on the front. The date code was 2007 and the bike is a 2006.

The net costs for tax, shipping, install, disposal, etc... will be $183 after $60 rebate, so it's hard to beat that.

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post #7 of 12 Old 03-05-2019, 02:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
just pulled up old thread "If only Just One Book" for you
Thanks, I'll give it a look.

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post #8 of 12 Old 03-05-2019, 03:15 PM
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Amateur and suspension should not even be in the same sentence. Seek professional help. Years ago I shipped the front forks to Dan Kyle/ LDH. I then bought an Ohlins rear shock from him. That 929 is still the best riding motorcycle I’ve ever owned; my used Ducati 858 Streetfighter is a very close second. Bite your tongue, hold your breath, look the other way. Do whatever. You’ll be glad you went first class.
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post #9 of 12 Old 03-05-2019, 05:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper-x View Post
Amateur and suspension should not even be in the same sentence. Seek professional help. Years ago I shipped the front forks to Dan Kyle/ LDH. I then bought an Ohlins rear shock from him. That 929 is still the best riding motorcycle Iíve ever owned; my used Ducati 858 Streetfighter is a very close second. Bite your tongue, hold your breath, look the other way. Do whatever. Youíll be glad you went first class.
As bad as it reflects on me to say this, I think it needs to be said. Before last week, I rode a bike that had a 10 and 12 year old tires on it. I really have no excuse for this, but it's true that it happened. Riding on the new tires pointed out just how bad the prior tires were.

I still have a clicking noise when I hit a 1/2" bump going into a parking lot and still don't know how to adjust the suspension that I have. Given that, the bike is a completely different bike in terms of ride quality, lean smoothness, accuracy, no longer dancing all over, etc...

I have no doubt that the bike can be improved even more with a professionally reworked suspension, at the same time, I got what some might say were "low buck" tires. I could have spent some 3X on the tires and I can't even say if it would make a difference to me.

Just getting an understanding of how to properly adjust the suspension would be a great start. Maybe as much as the new tires made, IDK.

I think the analogy of a race car on the street vs a great handling car on the street. A bone stock 911 Porsche vs a million dollar race car is no compare, but for me, getting a bone stock 911 Porsche to work properly with proper tires, braking, etc... would be a great step forward.

So many have said the stock rear shock is bad that I have little doubt that it is bad. Similar with the forks and enough knowledge to get the setting more in line with my use and skills.

I haven't made my mind up on what path to take.

I didn't know jack about making cars handle, read a book, made the changes and it worked. I'll probably do the same with the bike.

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post #10 of 12 Old 03-05-2019, 06:29 PM
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For just a few minutes of your time, how about the following as a starting point for your stock 04+ suspension components.

Rear
Preload Position #4.
Rebound screw set midpoint.
Tire pressure 35.

Front
Set your ride height adjusters mid way. (everyone else calls them preload adjusters, but in terms of the particulars of the 919 fork, they are truly ride height adjusters within the band of operational fork stroke)
Tire pressure 32.
Begin with the rebound screws 1.5 turns backed out from a very gently arrived at lightly fully closed off and seated.
Ride it that way.
Do repeat rides of the same route, preferably with some bumps and some mid level front braking so you have a good feel as what that 1.5 feels like overall.

If you want, next try 1/8 of a turn less, in other words turn in by 1/8 turn.
(NEVER firm it up more than 1/8 of a turn at a time!)
Do your standardized route and observe.
Try to sense in particular the loss of a sort of undulating compliance that stems from too slow a rebound stroke.
If the front end gets what I call a "wooden" feel, then the rebound is way too firm.
If you want to try less than 1-3/8ths turns out, start using 1/16th turn increments.
You're using nominal 10 weight oil I assume, and guess you will end up somewhere between 1-3/8ths and 1.5 turns out from fully closed off.

Done and dusted.

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post #11 of 12 Old 03-05-2019, 08:41 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
For just a few minutes of your time, how about the following as a starting point for your stock 04+ suspension components.

Rear
Preload Position #4.
Rebound screw set midpoint.
Tire pressure 35.

Front
Set your ride height adjusters mid way. (everyone else calls them preload adjusters, but in terms of the particulars of the 919 fork, they are truly ride height adjusters within the band of operational fork stroke)
Tire pressure 32.
Begin with the rebound screws 1.5 turns backed out from a very gently arrived at lightly fully closed off and seated.
Ride it that way.
Do repeat rides of the same route, preferably with some bumps and some mid level front braking so you have a good feel as what that 1.5 feels like overall.

If you want, next try 1/8 of a turn less, in other words turn in by 1/8 turn.
(NEVER firm it up more than 1/8 of a turn at a time!)
Do your standardized route and observe.
Try to sense in particular the loss of a sort of undulating compliance that stems from too slow a rebound stroke.
If the front end gets what I call a "wooden" feel, then the rebound is way too firm.
If you want to try less than 1-3/8ths turns out, start using 1/16th turn increments.
You're using nominal 10 weight oil I assume, and guess you will end up somewhere between 1-3/8ths and 1.5 turns out from fully closed off.

Done and dusted.
Thanks, I was 36,42 on the tires and I'll have to double check the rest of the settings.

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post #12 of 12 Old 03-06-2019, 08:20 AM
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Since one of my threads was resurrected regarding suspension, I feel obliged to provide a little input.
FWIW, after monkeying around with my forks, I tend to agree with Sniper's comment above, with a caveat: if you have not changed your fork oil, start there. While in there anyway, go ahead and install the proper springs for your weight. Ride the bike like this for a while and see if you feel there are still deficits. If there are, you have some options. Cheaper is to go with a set of valves (Ohlins or Racetech to name a couple), or spend a little more and take/send to a pro.

Don't get me wrong; I liked the way my forks came out, but I didn't try new oil/springs in my stock forks and so didn't have a basis for comparison.

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