New 919 owner - When to adjust APE CCT? - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 12 Old 06-05-2020, 08:00 AM Thread Starter
Tirone
 
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New 919 owner - When to adjust APE CCT?

Hi everyone,

I'm going to be that new guy and open up with what's likely a pretty stupid question. I bought a 2006 Honda CB919 in February this year, and I've put just shy of 4,000k on it since the riding season started for us Ontarians in April. The bike had 44,000kms / 27,300 miles. I could rant and rave for hours on end about how fantastic a bike it's been in the few months I've had it, but I'll spare everyone by just repeating what I'm sure many of you know (or else why would we all be here?). By far the best handling, most adaptive, enjoyable motorcycle I've ever owned, and I love how ahead of the time Honda was with the Nighthawk-inspired retro styling.

Because of that, I'm doing my best to stay on top of maintenance. I did all the typical new owner preventatives - reconditioned the K&N air filter, changed the spark plugs, ran liquid moly through the old oil / changed it for fresh Motul 7100.

However, the previous owner (it was a 1-owner bike) at some point swapped out what I assume was a failing CCT for an APE unit. I don't know when it was last adjusted, and despite youtube making it obvious that cam chain rattling is a pretty easy tell, I'm not entirely sure at what point I should be making adjustments. Right now I'm beginning to notice a bit of cam rattling while the bike is cold and warming up, however it dissipates (almost) entirely once the bike is warm.

Is that generally considered to be the point at which you adjust, or is it more of an "every 10,000k" recurring service? It's my first time dealing with a manual CCT so I'm not sure how often it should be adjusted. Also - any major points of maintenance I should be concerned with?

Now that the stupid question is out of the way, I look forward to being part of this community for years to come. Truly a spectacular piece of engineering. Pics because why not.
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post #2 of 12 Old 06-05-2020, 08:17 AM
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Here's how you maintain the APE CCT:


1. At your next oil change interval, go to the bike and remove the APE CCT.


2. Replace the APE CCT with the following Honda parts:


LIFTER ASSY., TENSIONER, 14520-MCZ-003 or 14520-MCZ-013

GASKET, TENSIONER HOLE 14523-MAL-A00 or 14523-MAL-A01


BOLT, FLANGE (6X10) (NSHF) (bolt on the back of the tensioner) 90004-GHB-600

WASHER, SEALING (6MM) (sealing washer for the above) 90442-397-000




3. Throw the APE CCT in the garbage or put it up on eBay for some idiot to buy.


It is not possible to get chain tension correct on this engine with a manual tension lifter like the APE POS. You may have actually worn down the actual tensioner guide in the engine, number 3 in the below diagram - this is a common effect of fitting a manual tensioner.






These engines are going to have the slack on the chain change a bit as the engine heats and cools, that's why they have automatic tension lifters. What made the previous owner think the original automatic tension lifter failed? They almost never go bad on these bikes. These engines do have some piston slap when cold but they are designed to do so and no harm comes of it.
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post #3 of 12 Old 06-05-2020, 08:35 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CB700S View Post
Here's how you maintain the APE CCT:


1. At your next oil change interval, go to the bike and remove the APE CCT.


2. Replace the APE CCT with the following Honda parts:


LIFTER ASSY., TENSIONER, 14520-MCZ-003 or 14520-MCZ-013

GASKET, TENSIONER HOLE 14523-MAL-A00 or 14523-MAL-A01


BOLT, FLANGE (6X10) (NSHF) (bolt on the back of the tensioner) 90004-GHB-600

WASHER, SEALING (6MM) (sealing washer for the above) 90442-397-000




3. Throw the APE CCT in the garbage or put it up on eBay for some idiot to buy.


It is not possible to get chain tension correct on this engine with a manual tension lifter like the APE POS. You may have actually worn down the actual tensioner guide in the engine, number 3 in the below diagram - this is a common effect of fitting a manual tensioner.






These engines are going to have the slack on the chain change a bit as the engine heats and cools, that's why they have automatic tension lifters. What made the previous owner think the original automatic tension lifter failed? They almost never go bad on these bikes. These engines do have some piston slap when cold but they are designed to do so and no harm comes of it.

Well, the problem there was twofold. On the one hand, I just came off a '98 Honda VTR1000 where every other forum post in that community was someone screaming about their "CCT failing", and praising APEs as THE replacement choice. Mine had 65,000k on it by the time I sold it and had the original automatic, so I assumed I'd just gotten lucky with my OEM.

On the other, by a one-owner bike, I mean that the original owner traded it into a Harley dealership, where one of their mechanics bought it and proceeded to take it nowhere. So, unfortunately, in buying it I got stuck speaking with a middleman who really knew nothing about the history. I don't know when the CCT was swapped, or how long it's been since it was adjusted. Mechanically the bike is in great overall shape, though I had to remove a few tasteless stickers - including what I assume was a dyno result stamped on a GIVI front cowl.

I just assumed that the "original" owner had no taste, but at least took care of the bike. Had no idea APE CCTs were such a poor choice for the 919.

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post #4 of 12 Old 06-05-2020, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamcrin View Post
Well, the problem there was twofold. On the one hand, I just came off a '98 Honda VTR1000 where every other forum post in that community was someone screaming about their "CCT failing", and praising APEs as THE replacement choice. Mine had 65,000k on it by the time I sold it and had the original automatic, so I assumed I'd just gotten lucky with my OEM.

On the other, by a one-owner bike, I mean that the original owner traded it into a Harley dealership, where one of their mechanics bought it and proceeded to take it nowhere. So, unfortunately, in buying it I got stuck speaking with a middleman who really knew nothing about the history. I don't know when the CCT was swapped, or how long it's been since it was adjusted. Mechanically the bike is in great overall shape, though I had to remove a few tasteless stickers - including what I assume was a dyno result stamped on a GIVI front cowl.

I just assumed that the "original" owner had no taste, but at least took care of the bike. Had no idea APE CCTs were such a poor choice for the 919.

The K&N isn't a great idea either, check the archives here. Not as potentially damaging, but still not a great idea IMHO.


Anyway, we don't have problems with our chain tensioner lifters on 919s. In fact the biggest problems we have are either ones that are user induced or just plain boredom because the things generally don't break so there's little opportunity to do a 'fix upgrade.'


Put the factory tensioner lifter back on it and toss the APE one.
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post #5 of 12 Old 06-09-2020, 01:37 PM
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One thing I've learned about forums is that when someone rants and raves about any failure of OE engineering there is usually more to the story.

The factory parts on this bike are fine.

But to answer your question I had to use one of those tensioners on a different bike, no oe replacements available, and the spec was 3/8" play on the chain between the cam gears and I checked it every valve adjustment.

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post #6 of 12 Old 08-13-2020, 05:16 PM
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If you want an auto cam chain tensioner, hmu and I'll send you my old one for the price of postage from 75711...

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post #7 of 12 Old 08-13-2020, 06:02 PM
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Manual cct- Slightly revised
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post #8 of 12 Old 08-14-2020, 07:28 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rufftup View Post
If you want an auto cam chain tensioner, hmu and I'll send you my old one for the price of postage from 75711...
Rufftup - what made you opt for the manual? I have mine dialed in to what feels normal now, but the peace of mind in not having to adjust seems worth it?

I'd definitely be interested in the part, but shipping would be international to Canada. I can PM the shipping address.

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post #9 of 12 Old 08-14-2020, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CB700S View Post
The K&N isn't a great idea either, check the archives here. Not as potentially damaging, but still not a great idea IMHO.


Anyway, we don't have problems with our chain tensioner lifters on 919s. In fact the biggest problems we have are either ones that are user induced or just plain boredom because the things generally don't break so there's little opportunity to do a 'fix upgrade.'


Put the factory tensioner lifter back on it and toss the APE one.
"Put the factory tensioner lifter back on it and toss the APE one."

Wise words indeed.

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post #10 of 12 Old 08-14-2020, 04:48 PM
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A manual cct is the shit. Set it and forget it. Don't know how anyone could speak against one. I modified mine, somewhat... Check my posts

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post #11 of 12 Old 08-14-2020, 05:01 PM
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cct

@Slamcrin
My cct wasn't metric. The top nut was drilled and pinned, so I cut it off just below that. Slid a 5/16" (the shaft is 3/8") stainless steel washer down to cover the o-ring (lubed). RED Loctite on the acorn nut and had a nice nap.

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post #12 of 12 Old 08-14-2020, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamcrin View Post
Rufftup - what made you opt for the manual? I have mine dialed in to what feels normal now, but the peace of mind in not having to adjust seems worth it?

I'd definitely be interested in the part, but shipping would be international to Canada. I can PM the shipping address.
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