Is there a way to tell if you screwed up the master link on a new chain? - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 22 Old 05-31-2019, 09:52 PM Thread Starter
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Is there a way to tell if you screwed up the master link on a new chain?

I tried pretty hard to get the master link on correctly. I use a feeler gauge and non-digital calipers, but the o rings on one side look like the got squished a bit.

It seems to move just as freely as the others, but I'm wondering how can I tell if I really got it right?

I'm guessing if it were too tight, the o rings would be damaged and if too loose would not hold the plate on.

Local shop wants $25 to put one on, so that might be worth having them look at it to see if it's right.

I just don't want to have it fail while in use and I've never done one of these before. It's hard to look at the rivet heads and see if they've been smashed enough or not, but they compare to the other rivet heads.

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post #2 of 22 Old 05-31-2019, 10:09 PM
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It's most likely fine and your worried about nothing. As long as is flared and not cracked, link moves freely and doesn't bind and the O rings haven't been deformed so that they break and stick out.
Post a pic of your work.

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post #3 of 22 Old 06-01-2019, 07:27 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
It's most likely fine and your worried about nothing. As long as is flared and not cracked, link moves freely and doesn't bind and the O rings haven't been deformed so that they break and stick out.
Post a pic of your work.
Ok, here's a few videos.




Notice how the o ring sticks out a bit on one? I used the calipers to compare the size of the rivet heads to the others. It doesn't feel stiff, it feels like the other links.

I guess I can take it to a shop and have them look at it. I'm going to use the Dupont chain saver wax and set the tension then see how she sounds.

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post #4 of 22 Old 06-01-2019, 07:41 AM
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The rivets look really good, but I would be concerned about that o-ring squishing out. I would try to work the link and see if I could get the o-ring back in place or re-do the master link.

I may even just ride it a while and check the o-ring again.

Good luck!!!

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post #5 of 22 Old 06-01-2019, 08:15 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marylandmike View Post
The rivets look really good, but I would be concerned about that o-ring squishing out. I would try to work the link and see if I could get the o-ring back in place or re-do the master link.

I may even just ride it a while and check the o-ring again.

Good luck!!!
It kinda looks like it has too much space on one side and not enough on the other. IDK if I can center the other link or not.

I guess if it fails, it would just be the master link.

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post #6 of 22 Old 06-01-2019, 06:40 PM
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I use a dial calipers to get the master link as close to the same width as all the others.

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post #7 of 22 Old 06-01-2019, 07:55 PM
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The extruded O ring must be remedied, as if it's not, it will fail and come off.
So if the link can't somehow be reworked without ruining it, a new one will be required.
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post #8 of 22 Old 06-02-2019, 09:29 AM
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Try to put pressure on the back plate on the side of the tight oring and see if you can even the gap out a little to get the oring back under the cover plate.

"Grip it and Rip it!"
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post #9 of 22 Old 06-02-2019, 10:56 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgecrusher4444 View Post
Try to put pressure on the back plate on the side of the tight oring and see if you can even the gap out a little to get the oring back under the cover plate.
That was my exact thought. I think the chain itself is ok, but the gap will cause more stress on the smashed o ring. If I can fix that, it should be fine, otherwise, I'd expect that o ring to fail long before it should have.

The trick would be to force things over without damaging the o ring. Maybe a Visegrip to squeeze the wider side together a bit.

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post #10 of 22 Old 06-03-2019, 08:47 AM
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You will not be able to fix that o-ring properly. Remove the master and install a new one. Chain riveting takes practice and all of us that do it professionally have paid our dues just like you are now.


The rivets should be flared to .5mm larger than they originally were. Off of memory that is usually 5.7mm on most DID 520 master links as I believe they are 5.2 right out of the package
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post #11 of 22 Old 06-04-2019, 08:23 PM
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Just got done doing mine. Ended up a tad on the tight side for width but like .2 mm and the orings were not bulging out. I think it'll go. Ran the riveter into the pin till it sat flush. Maybe 5.4mm. I'll check it out again in the morning. This video helped me out a lot in understanding the rivets.

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post #12 of 22 Old 06-05-2019, 12:14 AM
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Recently I've been buying DID endless chains, no masterlink. Just get it whatever number of links required.

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post #13 of 22 Old 06-05-2019, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
That was my exact thought. I think the chain itself is ok, but the gap will cause more stress on the smashed o ring. If I can fix that, it should be fine, otherwise, I'd expect that o ring to fail long before it should have.

The trick would be to force things over without damaging the o ring. Maybe a Visegrip to squeeze the wider side together a bit.
How are you making out so far?

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post #14 of 22 Old 06-05-2019, 10:06 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
How are you making out so far?
I brought it to a shop so they can do an in-person inspection. They looked at it and said it'll be fine. The o ring won't wear as well as the others, but there's no safety issue.

He also mentioned that some chain kits have a half link tool thing, included to keep this from happening.

I said, so it'll last maybe 1/2 as long as the rest of the chain, and he said it wasn't even close to that bad.

So I'm going to run as is, it'll have a bit shorter life, and I'll end up replacing that master link when the o ring fails.

I'm pretty good about lube and align, so I'll just add that to the check list.

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post #15 of 22 Old 06-05-2019, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
I brought it to a shop so they can do an in-person inspection. They looked at it and said it'll be fine. The o ring won't wear as well as the others, but there's no safety issue.

He also mentioned that some chain kits have a half link tool thing, included to keep this from happening.

I said, so it'll last maybe 1/2 as long as the rest of the chain, and he said it wasn't even close to that bad.

So I'm going to run as is, it'll have a bit shorter life, and I'll end up replacing that master link when the o ring fails.

I'm pretty good about lube and align, so I'll just add that to the check list.
Why not just spend the $5 on another master link and get it done right right now instead of having to worry about when/if it's going to fail and dealing with it down the road?
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post #16 of 22 Old 06-05-2019, 12:36 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badmoon692008 View Post
Why not just spend the $5 on another master link and get it done right right now instead of having to worry about when/if it's going to fail and dealing with it down the road?
The shop that looked at it didn't think it was worth it. This is the shop that I went to in order for them to change it out. He inspected it and said don't worry about it.

The way I see it is the same as having a ding in the tank. I have a ding in both sides of the tank and I don't worry about it. It's been that way for years and there is rust there, but I don't worry about it because it really doesn't make a difference.

IDK what the failure point is on those o rings, I've heard some people get 25 40K+ miles from a chain. The shop said it's not going to make a difference. Just like looking at the tank and saying why not get the dents fixed... they are rusting the tank. I don't see it that way, the damage to the o ring or the tank isn't worth worrying about.

Worst case, I'm 100% wrong and that o ring is gone next month, in that case, I replace it for the same cost as replacing it today. Best case, the shop is mostly right and it last 25K miles and then fails. $200 for a new setup after 25K miles is not a huge cost. Maybe I would have got 30K, it I still say that's not a huge cost.

Edit: I might change my mind on this and next time I do this, I'll cut the extra links so that I have a guide to how thick one side is supposed to be. I have a 5" section left over, cut out one of the middle parts and use that side piece as a guide to press in the new master link, that way they'd be the same width.

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post #17 of 22 Old 06-06-2019, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
The shop that looked at it didn't think it was worth it. This is the shop that I went to in order for them to change it out. He inspected it and said don't worry about it.

The way I see it is the same as having a ding in the tank. I have a ding in both sides of the tank and I don't worry about it. It's been that way for years and there is rust there, but I don't worry about it because it really doesn't make a difference.

IDK what the failure point is on those o rings, I've heard some people get 25 40K+ miles from a chain. The shop said it's not going to make a difference. Just like looking at the tank and saying why not get the dents fixed... they are rusting the tank. I don't see it that way, the damage to the o ring or the tank isn't worth worrying about.

Worst case, I'm 100% wrong and that o ring is gone next month, in that case, I replace it for the same cost as replacing it today. Best case, the shop is mostly right and it last 25K miles and then fails. $200 for a new setup after 25K miles is not a huge cost. Maybe I would have got 30K, it I still say that's not a huge cost.

Edit: I might change my mind on this and next time I do this, I'll cut the extra links so that I have a guide to how thick one side is supposed to be. I have a 5" section left over, cut out one of the middle parts and use that side piece as a guide to press in the new master link, that way they'd be the same width.
So much wtf in this post... First off, worst case is the link is too tight/improperly installed and it ends up failing and throwing a chain at you or into the engine totaling the engine. Is that super likely? no, but it's the worst case.

Secondly, this is nothing like a ding on the tank, cosmetic defects will never affect safety... It's more like a disfigured tire... it might last just fine, but if you can fix it for $5 then why not?

Also, if "$200 for a new setup is not a huge cost" then why not just spend a couple dollars now and make sure this one is done right?

I just don't understand the mentality of knowing something as crucial as a chain is not quite right and deciding not to fix it for basically the sake of being stubborn.
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post #18 of 22 Old 06-06-2019, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badmoon692008 View Post
So much wtf in this post... First off, worst case is the link is too tight/improperly installed and it ends up failing and throwing a chain at you or into the engine totaling the engine. Is that super likely? no, but it's the worst case.

Secondly, this is nothing like a ding on the tank, cosmetic defects will never affect safety... It's more like a disfigured tire... it might last just fine, but if you can fix it for $5 then why not?

Also, if "$200 for a new setup is not a huge cost" then why not just spend a couple dollars now and make sure this one is done right?

I just don't understand the mentality of knowing something as crucial as a chain is not quite right and deciding not to fix it for basically the sake of being stubborn.

I'm a professional mechanic in the industry so I see this kind of thing so much that I am pretty much desensitized to it. What gets me is that many times in a situation like this where an installation error has been made and then a failure follows. You will never hear about the error and instead all you hear for the next 10 years on various forum threads is someone telling everyone about their bad experience with a DID chain that failed on them or the repeated story of it happening to someone else...
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post #19 of 22 Old 06-08-2019, 01:10 PM
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Anyone had any experience of these?

https://www.motosport.com/ek-chains-...pe-master-link

It's not what my new chain came with, but seems like a nifty idea, if reliable over time, and could take the agony out of judging whether the installation of the master link is correct or not.

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post #20 of 22 Old 06-08-2019, 02:29 PM
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Well that's a nifty idea.
Some of those EK chain kits also come with spacer plates. They slip into the masterlink and prevent you from pressing the plate on too tight when riveting.

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post #21 of 22 Old 06-09-2019, 04:49 AM
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KarlJay, fix it. This could end up like your "left fender off, lost rear brakes" thread. Your lucky you made it through that episode. Don't create another.
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post #22 of 22 Old 06-09-2019, 05:23 AM
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+1!!!

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