Individual valve shims for sell or trade? - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 63 Old 06-22-2014, 06:19 PM Thread Starter
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Individual valve shims for sell or trade?

I really don't feel like blowing ~$75 bucks on a shim kit, and I'm sure the dealer will rape me on individual shims. Would anyone either sell me the ones I need or trade me for the old ones I pull out?

I'm trying to decide if I want to replace all the shims right now. All of my intakes were on the tight side of spec. A 0.178mm gauge was going in and spec is .20 +-.03.

All my exhaust will definitely need to be changed out though as they are all way tight. If anyone is willing to do this I could post up the sizes I'm looking for once I figure out how many I will change.

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post #2 of 63 Old 06-22-2014, 06:50 PM
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go to a local shop, or go to the service dept directly of the local dealer, ask to trade shims, you will find someone who is perfectly ok with trading shims for free.

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post #3 of 63 Old 06-22-2014, 06:53 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
go to a local shop, or go to the service dept directly of the local dealer, ask to trade shims, you will find someone who is perfectly ok with trading shims for free.
I was gonna try that, but figured my local stealership wouldn't do it as last month they wanted to charge me a 25% restocking fee for something I bought an hour before and that was still in the box....

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post #4 of 63 Old 06-22-2014, 08:55 PM
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Hope you have other dealership options. Or at the least were talking to a new guy that just had the rules pounded into his head.
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post #5 of 63 Old 06-23-2014, 04:36 AM
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I've got some, just don't know where - Depending on the bike, the shims fit a wide variety of machines.

The 7.48mm shims fit at least the:

2004-2012 Kawasaki KX250F
2004-2012 Honda CRF250R
2004-2012 Honda CRF250X
2004-2012 Suzuki RMZ250
2001-2012 Yamaha WR250F
2001-2012 Yamaha YZ250F
2008-2010 Kawasaki KLE650 Versys
2003-2010 Kawasaki Z1000
2006-2010 Honda GL1800HPN Gold Wing Audio/Comfort/Navi
2006-2010 Honda GL1800HP Gold Wing Audio/Comfort
2001-2010 Honda GL1800A Gold Wing ABS
2007-2010 Honda GL1800 Gold Wing Airbag
2006-2010 Honda GL1800HPNA Gold Wing Audio/Comfort/Navi/ABS
2008-2010 Kawasaki EX250F Ninja 250R
2009-2010 Kawasaki ER-6N
2006-2010 Kawasaki EX650 Ninja 650R
2007-2009 Honda CRF150R
2007-2009 Honda CRF150R Expert
1999-2009 Yamaha YZF-R6
1999-2009 Suzuki SV650S
2007-2009 Suzuki SV650SA ABS
2009 Suzuki GSX650F
2006-2009 Suzuki AN650A Burgman Executive
2003-2009 Suzuki AN650 Burgman
2007-2009 Suzuki DL650A V-Strom ABS
2004-2009 Suzuki DL650 V-Strom
2001-2009 Suzuki GSX-R1000
2009 Suzuki GSF1250S Bandit
2009 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit ABS
1992-2009 Suzuki GSX-R600
1995-2008 Kawasaki ZX600 Ninja ZX-6R
2003-2008 Kawasaki ZZR 600
2004-2008 Honda CBR1000RR
2006-2008 Honda GL1800P Gold Wing Premium Audio
2007-2008 Suzuki AN400 Burgman
1993-2008 Suzuki GSX-R750
2007-2008 Suzuki SV650A ABS
1999-2008 Suzuki SV650
2001-2008 Yamaha FZS1000 FZ1
2003-2007 Honda CBR600RR
2002-2007 Honda CB900F 919
2006-2007 Yamaha YZF-R6S
1995-2007 Yamaha YZF600R
2004-2007 Yamaha FZS600 FZ6
2005-2006 Kawasaki Z750S
2003-2006 Kawasaki ZX600 Ninja ZX6-RR
2003-2006 Kawasaki ZX636 Ninja ZX-6R
2004-2006 Honda CB600F 599
2002-2006 Honda CHF50 Metropolitan
2003-2006 Honda FSC600D Silver Wing ABS
2002-2006 Honda FSC600 Silver Wing
2003-2006 Honda ST1300 ABS
2003-2006 Honda ST1300
2002-2006 Honda VFR800A Interceptor ABS
1998-2006 Honda VFR800 Interceptor
1998-2006 Yamaha YZF-R1
2003-2005 Honda NPS50 Ruckus
2004-2005 Honda NPS50S Ruckus
2004-2005 Honda NRX1800 Rune
2001-2005 Honda GL1800 Gold Wing
2001-2005 Honda CBR600F F4I
2002-2005 Honda CHF50P Metropolitan II
1986-2005 Kawasaki ZG1000 Concours
1997-2005 Kawasaki KLX300R
2004 Kawasaki ZX1000 Ninja ZX-10R
1988-2003 Honda VF750C Magna
1991-2003 Honda ST1100
1992-2003 Honda ST1100 ABS
2002-2003 Honda CBR954RR
1997-2003 Honda CBR1100XX Super Blackbird
1994-2003 Kawasaki ZX900 Ninja ZX-9R
1993-2003 Kawasaki ZX750 Ninja ZX-7R
2000-2001 Honda CBR929RR
1990-2001 Kawasaki ZX600 Ninja ZX-6
2000-2001 Kawasaki W650
1999-2000 Honda CBR600F F4
1993-1999 Honda CBR900RR
1989-1999 Yamaha FZR600R
1995-1998 Honda CBR600F F3
1993-1998 Suzuki GSX-R1100
1994-1998 Yamaha YZF750R
1990-1997 Honda VFR750F Interceptor
1996-1997 Kawasaki ZX750 Ninja ZX-7RR
1997 Yamaha YZF1000
1994-1997 Suzuki RF900
1994-1996 Kawasaki KLX250R
1995-1996 Honda VF750CD Magna Deluxe
1994-1996 Suzuki RF600
1991-1995 Kawasaki ZX750 Ninja ZX-7
1989-1995 Yamaha FZR1000
1991-1994 Honda CBR600F F2
1994 Honda RVF750R RC45
1993-1994 Yamaha GTS1000A
1989-1990 Honda CB400F CB-1
1988-1990 Honda NX250
1990 Honda VFR750R RC30
1988-1990 Yamaha FZR400
1987 Kawasaki ZL1000 Eliminator
1984-1986 Kawasaki ZX900 Ninja
1978-1984 Kawasaki KL250
1982-1983 Honda VF750C V45 Magna
1979-1980 Kawasaki KLX250

Find a model specific forum, many will loan you the shims wanting only return and your replacements.

Also, K&L, Wiseco, others sell kits of 5 like shims for $10.00 or less (WAY LESS, sometimes under a buck apiece!) - another option. And check the local "generic repair shop" as they'll have extra's and be easier to work with (sometimes) than dealerships can be.

Good luck!!!

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post #6 of 63 Old 06-23-2014, 07:41 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Steve. I did read something last night on the CBRforum so maybe I could find someone to trade. I've got to take the old shims out tonight and measure them so I can figure what I need.

All of my intakes were right on the tight side of spec, all the same. Would you shim all of them now to bring them back in or let it ride? All of my exhaust were out, but is it going to throw anything off if I have to shim all 16 valves?

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post #7 of 63 Old 06-23-2014, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBeeDeeGee View Post
Thanks Steve. I did read something last night on the CBRforum so maybe I could find someone to trade. I've got to take the old shims out tonight and measure them so I can figure what I need.

All of my intakes were right on the tight side of spec, all the same. Would you shim all of them now to bring them back in or let it ride? All of my exhaust were out, but is it going to throw anything off if I have to shim all 16 valves?
All 16 ??? I'm sure you are top dead center when checking? That's crazy. If they need it I would do it while it's apart. Like others stated, any dealer will usually trade or sell you shims very cheap. It doesn't have to be a Honda dealer.

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post #8 of 63 Old 06-23-2014, 03:06 PM Thread Starter
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All 16 ??? I'm sure you are top dead center when checking? That's crazy. If they need it I would do it while it's apart. Like others stated, any dealer will usually trade or sell you shims very cheap. It doesn't have to be a Honda dealer.
yeah, I mean I triple maybe even quadruple checked them all because I was doubtful. I lined up the Timing mark with the one on the case, double checked that I was right with the service manual. The intakes are in spec, just at the tight end. Spec is .20 +- .03 and I was using a .178 and there was some resistance.

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post #9 of 63 Old 06-23-2014, 05:50 PM
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You may not need that many shims. Usually you can juggle them, moving them around.

Me, when I do it, I put the intake (or exhaust) to the same spec, not just getting them within spec. It's a PIA but it's just what I do.

It's been my experience than Honda's hold their adjustments very well. Unless your bike has a ton of miles or has been apart (or is a older air cooled bike), it would seem out of the ordinary for that many valves to require adjustment.

One of the model specific forums will have a kit they loan out to each other, if no one here does. And sometimes kits come up on eBay, they go for less than you might think.

Sold a few myself, they are among those items I should of bought......

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post #10 of 63 Old 06-23-2014, 06:22 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Me, when I do it, I put the intake (or exhaust) to the same spec, not just getting them within spec. It's a PIA but it's just what I do.

It's been my experience than Honda's hold their adjustments very well. Unless your bike has a ton of miles or has been apart (or is a older air cooled bike), it would seem out of the ordinary for that many valves to require adjustment.

O
That's what everyone has told me, and what I've read. It scared me a little bit that they are all tight. I mean, the intakes are still within spec, they are just on the tight side, but the exhaust are out. I haven't read a forum post yet where someone found ALL the exhaust needing adjustment at 24k miles

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post #11 of 63 Old 06-23-2014, 06:34 PM
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There used to be a community shim kit here. But who knows where it is....?

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post #12 of 63 Old 06-23-2014, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redline919 View Post
There used to be a community shim kit here. But who knows where it is....?
Ahh, the mythical shim kit. I, for one, believe they never truly existed, but were but a tale designed to tear this forum apart, with members accusing each other of hoarding it for themselves!


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post #13 of 63 Old 06-23-2014, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBeeDeeGee View Post
That's what everyone has told me, and what I've read. It scared me a little bit that they are all tight. I mean, the intakes are still within spec, they are just on the tight side, but the exhaust are out. I haven't read a forum post yet where someone found ALL the exhaust needing adjustment at 24k miles
This guy found all of the exhaust valves out whack at 16K on his '06 F4i.

"So I just finishing double checking the valves 20 times over. The whole exhaust side decided to be way out of wack."

I bet Nesty still has the shims.

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post #14 of 63 Old 06-23-2014, 07:58 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marylandmike View Post
This guy found all of the exhaust valves out whack at 16K on his '06 F4i.

"So I just finishing double checking the valves 20 times over. The whole exhaust side decided to be way out of wack."

I bet Nesty still has the shims.
Hmm I'm dumb LOL. I read that thread yesterday and must have skipped over that one post about all the exhaust being out. I skimmed too hard I guess.

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post #15 of 63 Old 06-23-2014, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBeeDeeGee View Post
Hmm I'm dumb LOL. I read that thread yesterday and must have skipped over that one post about all the exhaust being out. I skimmed too hard I guess.
Well good to know you aren't alone!

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post #16 of 63 Old 06-24-2014, 04:31 AM
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Maybe it's a "Monday Morning Build"

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post #17 of 63 Old 06-24-2014, 06:18 AM Thread Starter
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Maybe it's a "Monday Morning Build"
ah man, i hope not.

I guess I'm just going to talk to the dealers around here and see if they will swap the shims I need, and go ahead and shim all 16 valves.

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post #18 of 63 Old 06-24-2014, 09:29 AM
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Biggest issue I always have is you have to pull the old shims and get their measurement before I knew which ones I needed - not such a big deal on some bikes, huge deal on others.

Write down not only the spec but size shim is in each place, great future reference.

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post #19 of 63 Old 06-24-2014, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
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Biggest issue I always have is you have to pull the old shims and get their measurement before I knew which ones I needed - not such a big deal on some bikes, huge deal on others.

Write down not only the spec but size shim is in each place, great future reference.
That's why I think it's worth it to buy a set of shims. The adjustment doesn't take that long if you have the shims on hand. I would hate to leave my bike taken apart while I wait to find the right size shims.

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post #20 of 63 Old 06-24-2014, 01:33 PM
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post #21 of 63 Old 06-24-2014, 01:54 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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See my bike is already apart, and I don't mind waiting. I feel like I'll have $64 worth of shims and use a few of them LOL. Then I will have this whole shim kit sitting around for another 16k miles which will probably take two years or more, and I will probably have misplaced them by that time.

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post #22 of 63 Old 06-24-2014, 02:04 PM
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Right on. I just figured it would save you a lot of running around.

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post #23 of 63 Old 06-24-2014, 02:05 PM
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Make it a community shim kit when you are done!


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post #24 of 63 Old 06-24-2014, 05:43 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Right on. I just figured it would save you a lot of running around.
Yeah I feel you, I may end up doing it anyway. I'm going to try the 3 dealers I think there are in town, and if they won't do it I have no choice.

I pulled all 16 shims today, and made a spreadsheet to do my calcs. Looks like I only have 1 of the needed sizes from the original shims.

I'll tell you, it was a BITCH getting that cam cover off. I was trying to be gentle but I eventually had to use a little elbow grease it just wouldn't come off!

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post #25 of 63 Old 06-24-2014, 05:50 PM
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That's why I think it's worth it to buy a set of shims. The adjustment doesn't take that long if you have the shims on hand. I would hate to leave my bike taken apart while I wait to find the right size shims.
I hear you, but the kits I've seen sometimes don't have enough of the shim you end up needing, or they are not in "half sizes" that allow me to nail them all as close as close can be.

In this case, bikes apart, I'd pull and check/measure the shims to know exactly what is needed where, and if any of the existing shims could be moved about - and even at that, for whatever reason, call it Murphy's law, they will almost always be one you wish you had.....

Some bikes are easier than others too, still, everything said and done, well -

What marylandmike said

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post #26 of 63 Old 06-24-2014, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
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Yeah I feel you, I may end up doing it anyway. I'm going to try the 3 dealers I think there are in town, and if they won't do it I have no choice.

I pulled all 16 shims today, and made a spreadsheet to do my calcs. Looks like I only have 1 of the needed sizes from the original shims.

I'll tell you, it was a BITCH getting that cam cover off. I was trying to be gentle but I eventually had to use a little elbow grease it just wouldn't come off!
Post a Pic!

Here's one of mine:


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post #27 of 63 Old 06-24-2014, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
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I hear you, but the kits I've seen sometimes don't have enough of the shim you end up needing, or they are not in "half sizes" that allow me to nail them all as close as close can be.

In this case, bikes apart, I'd pull and check/measure the shims to know exactly what is needed where, and if any of the existing shims could be moved about - and even at that, for whatever reason, call it Murphy's law, they will almost always be one you wish you had.....

Some bikes are easier than others too, still, everything said and done, well -

What marylandmike said
The Hotcam kit has the shims in .05mm increments, where the OEM shims come in .025mm increments, so you're right if you want half sizes. I have had to do 2 adjustments at 32K and 48K and the hotcams got it close enough for gov't work.

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post #28 of 63 Old 06-24-2014, 06:15 PM Thread Starter
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Not quite as pretty, but it did the job.

I actually did all the measurements over today before pulling the shims, and found that the right hand intake valve on 4 was good.
Attached Images
File Type: png shimcalc.png (38.5 KB, 23 views)

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post #29 of 63 Old 06-25-2014, 07:20 AM Thread Starter
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As expected my dealer won't swap them, he doesn't even keep them in stock?! Do you seriously order shims every time you do a valve job? Also, OEM shim is $8.99 a peice! F*#$ that noise.

My experience with these guys has been kind of crappy so far. Looks like I'll be ordering a kit after all, but I would like OEM as I can get the spec closer in.

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post #30 of 63 Old 06-25-2014, 11:50 AM Thread Starter
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Today after reviewing the measurement order I think I may have screwed up. I'm going to put the cams back in bolt it all down and re-measure again. Oh well, good learning experience! I was rotating the engine until each cylinders cam lobes were facing away from each other and measuring both intake and exhaust for that cylinder, which was way wrong.

On top of that the cam chain slipped, so I have to remove the plug for cylinder 1 and make sure I'm at TDC so I can line up the cams.

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post #31 of 63 Old 06-25-2014, 03:39 PM Thread Starter
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well just snapped one of the cam holder bolts off while installing. Harbor freight torque wrench set to the specified 9ft lbs.

Now I really don't know what to do. Can I use one of those extractors to get this bolt out?

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post #32 of 63 Old 06-25-2014, 04:01 PM
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Wow sorry to hear that man. If there is enough of the bolt still sticking up you may be able to get a small flat head and try tapping it loose. Or you may have to drill and extract it. Or maybe a really strong magnet? Lol. I'm tryin

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post #33 of 63 Old 06-25-2014, 04:53 PM
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I used a cheap extractor and had no luck on any snapped bolts.

Bought this

Alden 8440P Pro Grabit Broken Bolt and Damaged Screw Extractor 4 Piece Kit:Amazon:Home Improvement

And it worked like a charm. I used it again 2 weeks ago and it still amazes me how well it works.
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post #34 of 63 Old 06-25-2014, 04:56 PM Thread Starter
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Got it out with needle nose pliers. Thank God

"A motorcycle is not just a two-wheeled car; the difference between driving a car and climbing onto a motorcycle is the difference between watching TV and actually living your life."
-2005 CBR 600 F4i
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post #35 of 63 Old 06-25-2014, 04:56 PM
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That sucks man! 9ft lbs is barely anything, I don't trust my HF wrench down that low...

I've never been good at extraction, just insertion...

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post #36 of 63 Old 06-25-2014, 04:58 PM
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Gotta learn how to pull out. Chit adds up if you leave it inserted and something blows.
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post #37 of 63 Old 06-25-2014, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffie7 View Post
Gotta learn how to pull out. Chit adds up if you leave it inserted and something blows.
TWSS?

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WFOATT
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post #38 of 63 Old 06-25-2014, 06:47 PM Thread Starter
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The order you measure the clearances in should be the same on all inline 4's right? Except crossplane engines?

"A motorcycle is not just a two-wheeled car; the difference between driving a car and climbing onto a motorcycle is the difference between watching TV and actually living your life."
-2005 CBR 600 F4i
-2001 RC51 ** SOLD
-2002 VFR 800**SOLD
-2002 919 **SOLD
-2006 599 ** WRECKED
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post #39 of 63 Old 06-25-2014, 06:49 PM
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If you want - let me know exactly the sizes you need and I can check Saturday - maybe Friday afternoon.

None of the existing shims can be swapped to another valve/cylinder?

Great job on the snapped bolt - I might have one, but again, can't check until Friday or Saturday....

Is it the 90017-MA6-000 6x45.5mm Flange Bolt???

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post #40 of 63 Old 06-25-2014, 06:56 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
If you want - let me know exactly the sizes you need and I can check Saturday - maybe Friday afternoon.

None of the existing shims can be swapped to another valve/cylinder?

Great job on the snapped bolt - I might have one, but again, can't check until Friday or Saturday....

Is it the 90017-MA6-000 6x45.5mm Flange Bolt???
BOLT, FLG (6X39.5) 719992 according to bike bandit. plus the copper washer (#15 in the pic)

I'm going to buy a decent torque wrench tomorrow for sure. I've got to remeasure the clearances again because I think I may have checked them in the wrong order.
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"A motorcycle is not just a two-wheeled car; the difference between driving a car and climbing onto a motorcycle is the difference between watching TV and actually living your life."
-2005 CBR 600 F4i
-2001 RC51 ** SOLD
-2002 VFR 800**SOLD
-2002 919 **SOLD
-2006 599 ** WRECKED
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