Honda HP4S Oil - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 8 Old 03-15-2016, 11:20 AM Thread Starter
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Honda HP4S Oil

I have used Honda HP4 oil and Honda filters since new. I just noticed the HP4S (full synthetic) is available. Honda's website indicates it is "compatible with all bikes 2006 and newer."

Given that the bike was built, basically unchanged, past 2006, I'm not real concerned about the year compatibility from Honda.

I am concerned about changing over the oil given the old adage about issues with changing oil types on higher mileage engines.

Any opinions on the use of the full synthetic in an '02 919 with 38k+ miles?

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post #2 of 8 Old 03-15-2016, 02:19 PM
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38K is not higher mileage for a 919. It's not even broken in yet.
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post #3 of 8 Old 03-15-2016, 03:22 PM
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The older versions of the Honda Full Synthetic had a large content of Molybdenum in it and it would result in certain organic Honda clutch plates getting saturated and then they would start to slip under load. They actually changed to two different formulas once this issue was brought to light. One "with moly" and another "without moly" and it looks like they have now moved it to just one formula. That means they have either reduced the moly content permanently or all 2006 and newer bikes have a different type of clutch plate that is not affected by the moly. I don't know which....

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post #4 of 8 Old 03-15-2016, 03:58 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks LDH... It doesn't appear to say with or without on the label. It's an JASO T903 MA oil but that doesn't appear to indicate with or without either. Also, it's only availabe as 10W-30 where the 919 calls for 10W-40.

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post #5 of 8 Old 04-20-2016, 01:15 AM
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An oil thread -Hooray!
One of the main differences between automotive and motorcycle oil is that ZDDP ( zinc dialkyldithiophosphate ) is not allowed in automotive oil any more because it damages catalytic converters. It is still used in several manufacturers motorcycle oils [ but not in some others like Royal Purple]. Note: STP is ZDDP
I wonder where the testing info could be found to show how much each oil has compared to another because the more zinc the less wear on lifters, cams and gears / dogs. Or could a cheaper synthetic oil be 'upgraded' with adding ZDDP?

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post #6 of 8 Old 04-20-2016, 02:31 PM
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I watched a video on YouTube from a channel called Hackaweek and he built a 1973 CB750 from the ground up. When putting oil in he went with Rotella T stating that it had Zinc in it and is good for the old engines.

Is this why you guys like to use it so much and does the new formula still contain Zinc in it?

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post #7 of 8 Old 04-20-2016, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07919Dave View Post
I watched a video on YouTube from a channel called Hackaweek and he built a 1973 CB750 from the ground up. When putting oil in he went with Rotella T stating that it had Zinc in it and is good for the old engines.

Is this why you guys like to use it so much and does the new formula still contain Zinc in it?
Automotive oils DO have Zinc in them.
The issue is how much.
Just within the Mobil 1 range, the ppm level of Zinc varies from 750 to 1300 within the street oils, up to 1850 in the racing oils, and up to 1750 in the motorcycle oils.
This from September 2014 data I have handy, and I don't think anything has changed since.

Phosphorous is a catalytic contaminant, yet all the Mobil 1 oils have it as well. Those ppm numbers are in league with the zinc numbers, but always lower. Then there is the Phosphorous Retention characteristic of the oil, as in staying in it, versus coming out of it - which is how the catalyst downstream in the exhaust system actually gets any phosphorous contamination.

T6 is really good stuff for bikes, the previous generation T6 5W40 JASO MA that is.
I haven't researched the new generation T6 0W40 as Canadian Tire still stocks the older stuff as well. They keep both on the shelf.

Back to Zinc again, more precisely ZDDP. If you want some, go to your GM dealer and get P/N 992704 ACDelco Camshaft and Lifter Prelube. An old engine builders secret assembly lube sauce for all but cylinder related parts was a 50/50 mix of 992704 and the engine oil to be used.

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post #8 of 8 Old 04-20-2016, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07919Dave View Post
I watched a video on YouTube from a channel called Hackaweek and he built a 1973 CB750 from the ground up. When putting oil in he went with Rotella T
If T6 5W40 JASO MA, it would be a good choice for a less expensive oil and street use power levels.
For track power levels re the associated temperature, even with an oil cooler on it for an 812 + CC build, far better would be something like Motul 300V 5 or 10W40.

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