Honda 919 hard to start - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 168 Old 03-16-2015, 07:17 AM Thread Starter
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Honda 919 hard to start

My 2007 Honda 919 takes a while to start. I have spark and plug are dry when it won't start. So I put a noid light on the number 4 injector and cranked the engine over The light does not blink, but when it does start blinking dimly at first, the engine fires up. Its weird, it seems random. This morning when I was leaving the gas station, it fired right up, like it should. In the morning when the engine is cold and about 62 outside, it takes hitting the starter multiple times. It would fire and kill right away, then try it again. Then it would fire run and kill, while barely idling. Then on more time fire and then it goes to about 1500 rpm and stays running. I also have the choke on while I am trying to start it. Please any help would be appreciated, this is my only transportation.

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post #2 of 168 Old 03-16-2015, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by captainchadl View Post
My 2007 Honda 919 takes a while to start. I have spark and plug are dry when it won't start. So I put a noid light on the number 4 injector and cranked the engine over The light does not blink, but when it does start blinking dimly at first, the engine fires up. Its weird, it seems random. This morning when I was leaving the gas station, it fired right up, like it should. In the morning when the engine is cold and about 62 outside, it takes hitting the starter multiple times. It would fire and kill right away, then try it again. Then it would fire run and kill, while barely idling. Then on more time fire and then it goes to about 1500 rpm and stays running. I also have the choke on while I am trying to start it. Please any help would be appreciated, this is my only transportation.
I only pull the enricher when I have to. 62f usually is not one of those times.

How many miles are on the bike? What mods have you done? If you have a power commander, its a known issue.

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post #3 of 168 Old 03-16-2015, 07:34 AM Thread Starter
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I have no mods or a power commander.

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post #4 of 168 Old 03-16-2015, 07:40 AM
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Check the battery. It would be my first suspect.

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post #5 of 168 Old 03-16-2015, 08:03 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickard919 View Post
Check the battery. It would be my first suspect.
It is a brand new battery and it has 12.3X volts right now, but I measured the voltage while running and it only gets up to 12.8x volts at 5000rpm.

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post #6 of 168 Old 03-16-2015, 08:47 AM
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That sounds too low to me. I'm not certain a charging system would cause the behavior you describe, but I would expect output of over 13 volts at 5k RPM.

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post #7 of 168 Old 03-16-2015, 08:57 AM Thread Starter
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The thing is, its not throwing any codes., and all the relays are working. I would't think a charging system problem would have the symptoms I am having, either. I had a 2007 shadow before this bike, and when the battery started going south, I just remember some weird things would happen. the shadow wasn't fuel injected either.

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post #8 of 168 Old 03-16-2015, 09:11 AM
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charging system<>battery, but I still don't think that's the problem. I just thought it was odd to see such low voltage at optimal charging RPM. I would say it's worth checking connections at stator, regulator, and battery, though.

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post #9 of 168 Old 03-16-2015, 09:41 AM
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Battery is undercharged and not charging. You should have 15.5 V @ 5000 rpm with the headlight on high beam. Fully charged battery is 13.0 - 13.2 V.

Remove the left side cover and disconnect the 3 pin connector. Measure the resistance between all 3 terminals. You should get 0.1 - 1.0 ohms between each one. If not, your alternator is bad. If good, your regulator/rectifier is probably bad.

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post #10 of 168 Old 03-16-2015, 10:25 AM
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Load test the battery first. Better chance that its the problem. New or not.

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post #11 of 168 Old 03-16-2015, 10:51 AM Thread Starter
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Okay, so the charging system is fine and the battery is holding a charge. While testing the stator and the r/r, I stumbled across a vacuum hose that was plunged. That hose went to a diaphragm that opens and closes a door in the intake duct. i reconnected it and so far it runs better. Hopefully it is just not coinsidense and that actually fixes the problem. I will try to upload a picture in a minute.

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post #12 of 168 Old 03-16-2015, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainchadl View Post
Okay, so the charging system is fine and the battery is holding a charge. While testing the stator and the r/r, I stumbled across a vacuum hose that was plunged. That hose went to a diaphragm that opens and closes a door in the intake duct. i reconnected it and so far it runs better. Hopefully it is just not coinsidense and that actually fixes the problem. I will try to upload a picture in a minute.
That sounds like the flapper mod. It has nothing to do with charging or starting. Most of us have it unplugged.

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post #13 of 168 Old 03-16-2015, 11:16 AM Thread Starter
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when exactly is that flapper supposed to close and why?

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post #14 of 168 Old 03-16-2015, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickard919 View Post
That sounds like the flapper mod. It has nothing to do with charging or starting. Most of us have it unplugged.
But if was unplugged and not capped off, it would be a vacuum leak which would affect the running. The 12.8V at 5,000 RPM sounds very low to me if the battery is holding a charge and the charging system is working as it should.

Hopefully reconnecting the hose will fix it.

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post #15 of 168 Old 03-16-2015, 11:17 AM Thread Starter
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yeah I was getting 14.8 at 5000rpm. I was measuring the voltage wrong. My fault, sorry guys.

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post #16 of 168 Old 03-16-2015, 11:19 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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But if was unplugged and not capped off, it would be a vacuum leak which would affect the running. The 12.8V at 5,000 RPM sounds very low to me if the battery is holding a charge and the charging system is working as it should.

Hopefully reconnecting the hose will fix it.
As of right now it seems to be running good, of course the engine was really well warmed up. Only time will tell.

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post #17 of 168 Old 03-16-2015, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marylandmike View Post

But if was unplugged and not capped off, it would be a vacuum leak which would affect the running. The 12.8V at 5,000 RPM sounds very low to me if the battery is holding a charge and the charging system is working as it should.

Hopefully reconnecting the hose will fix it.
That could be. I didn't think it got any vacuum until about 6-7000 rpm? Hopefully it does fix it.

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post #18 of 168 Old 03-18-2015, 08:21 AM Thread Starter
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After riding it more with some STP fuel injected cleaner in the tank, and running Shell V Power ( if it is still called that), the bike is running and started much better. The only thing I could figure is that the engine requires fuel from the enrichment circuit to start running at enough rpm, so that the ECM can get a good signal from the cam position sensor. Maybe the enrichment circuit was clogged. Now that is just a theory, I'm no expert on how Honda designed there fuel injection. I also have a feeling that some debris or carbon may have been cleaned of from the STP fuel injection cleaner. I do see in the tank from when the previous owner had the bike stored without a full tank, because the the discoloration to the metal and the rust line. Another thing is the reserve light would flash randomly and stay lit most of the time, but yesterday it went out all of a sudden. All in all, I think the fuel system just needed a good cleaning. (Fingers Crossed). I also think I will leave the flapper line installed, because I never really felt anything different performance related. It actually doesn't hesitate when I am jumping onto the highway at 3:30 in the morning ( barely warmed up yet). I am not sure if the flapper mod is the culprit or not.

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post #19 of 168 Old 03-18-2015, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainchadl View Post
After riding it more with some STP fuel injected cleaner in the tank, and running Shell V Power ( if it is still called that), the bike is running and started much better. The only thing I could figure is that the engine requires fuel from the enrichment circuit to start running at enough rpm, so that the ECM can get a good signal from the cam position sensor. Maybe the enrichment circuit was clogged. Now that is just a theory, I'm no expert on how Honda designed there fuel injection. I also have a feeling that some debris or carbon may have been cleaned of from the STP fuel injection cleaner. I do see in the tank from when the previous owner had the bike stored without a full tank, because the the discoloration to the metal and the rust line. Another thing is the reserve light would flash randomly and stay lit most of the time, but yesterday it went out all of a sudden. All in all, I think the fuel system just needed a good cleaning. (Fingers Crossed). I also think I will leave the flapper line installed, because I never really felt anything different performance related. It actually doesn't hesitate when I am jumping onto the highway at 3:30 in the morning ( barely warmed up yet). I am not sure if the flapper mod is the culprit or not.
It was an incomplete flapper mod. A completed flapper mod plugs that line. I have 0 doubts a vacuum leak at that point would cause driveability issues. Does your bike still have the selenoid for the flapper? If not it will leak vacuum constantly.

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post #20 of 168 Old 03-18-2015, 09:37 AM Thread Starter
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There was a sheet metal screw in the line, and yes it is still all there. I have it hooked up right now.

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post #21 of 168 Old 03-18-2015, 10:28 AM
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Running some Seafoam through the tank will do wonders as well.

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post #22 of 168 Old 03-18-2015, 11:26 AM Thread Starter
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I did an experiment with B12 and Seafoam on a carburetor, and the Seafoam loosened up a lot more junk than the B12. So, next fill up I will try some Seafoam instead. They all work in different ways, cleaning some junk that others do not. STP claims theres is jet fuel. I am not sure how much better jet fuel is as a solvent, but it seems to be helping. STP has a fuel injector cleaner that also is supposed to help lubricate the cylinder walls as well.

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post #23 of 168 Old 03-18-2015, 12:30 PM
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I agree, STP is good stuff, too. Maybe a bit of everything every other tank? lol...

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post #24 of 168 Old 03-18-2015, 01:02 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah every other tank sounds like a good idea. I hate to have too much of these additives in the fuel system at one time. It may damage some rubber parts (o rings) or something.

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post #25 of 168 Old 03-18-2015, 01:04 PM
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Seafoam is tough on rubber, so yes, use it sparingly and not too often. I pretty much only use it once a year with the spring tank.

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post #26 of 168 Old 03-18-2015, 01:14 PM Thread Starter
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That is good to know. Thanks!

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post #27 of 168 Old 03-19-2015, 01:05 PM Thread Starter
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How long of cranking is usually needed to start these bikes cold?

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post #28 of 168 Old 03-19-2015, 01:44 PM
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How cold? I've never touched the choke....errr enricher on mine.

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post #29 of 168 Old 03-19-2015, 01:45 PM Thread Starter
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let's say 60 degrees F outside.

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post #30 of 168 Old 03-19-2015, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
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let's say 60 degrees F outside.
That's the temps here and I never need the choke.

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post #31 of 168 Old 03-19-2015, 02:39 PM
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Captain - STP claims theres is jet fuel. I am not sure how much better jet fuel is as a solvent, but it seems to be helping.


Jet fuel is kerosene.



Want great fuel inj cleaner on the cheap?
Go to lowes and buy a gallon of Kerosene ($10.oo) and a quart of Mineral Spirits.
I mix 20 oz K, 4 oz MS and one btl of Yamaha fuel med ($1.95).
Yamaha Generators | Yamaha Fuel Med Rx | yamahagenerators.com

Dump 3/4 oz per gal into your tank
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post #32 of 168 Old 03-19-2015, 03:32 PM Thread Starter
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Stutz, now that you mention it, a while back I read an article on solvents to use to clean an o ring seemed chain and kerosene was the one to use because it didn't swell or shrink the rings like some of the others did. I will have to see if I can find that article. This was years ago that I had read it. I think I had my 92 nighthawk 750 at the time.

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post #33 of 168 Old 03-19-2015, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainchadl View Post
Stutz, now that you mention it, a while back I read an article on solvents to use to clean an o ring seemed chain and kerosene was the one to use because it didn't swell or shrink the rings like some of the others did. I will have to see if I can find that article. This was years ago that I had read it. I think I had my 92 nighthawk 750 at the time.
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post #34 of 168 Old 03-19-2015, 03:40 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, that is the exact article.

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post #35 of 168 Old 03-20-2015, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
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That's the temps here and I never need the choke.
I agree at 60. When colder though, like 40's and below - I always use choke, enrichener, or whatever my bike at the time has. Kind of like a car's fast idle. I would rather have the rpms a little higher to get the oil moving through rather than lugging with a slow idle - longer starved for oil. Not saying I'm right - just what I do since reading the literature on my old volvo I bought in 1990....

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post #36 of 168 Old 03-20-2015, 04:41 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah but how long, normally, do you have to hold the starter button down for when starting a Honda 919 when the engine is cold (not started yet for the day)?

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post #37 of 168 Old 03-20-2015, 04:47 PM
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Yeah but how long, normally, do you have to hold the starter button down for when starting a Honda 919 when the engine is cold (not started yet for the day)?
Doesn't matter how long you hold it down, it won't hurt anything.

Because I have a pcIII with the dreaded cold start issue, I just hold down the starter button anywhere from 1-5 seconds after the engine fires up. Have had no issues. I have had to never use the enricher except once when I was at 9,000+ feet at 25 degrees in the morning.

Did you know, cutting the enricher cable actually cures the cold start issue?

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post #38 of 168 Old 03-20-2015, 04:54 PM Thread Starter
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I don't have a pcIII that I know of, but this morning I counted about 4 seconds total of holding down the button, including a half of a second after it started.

How would cutting the enricher cable cure the cold start issue?

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post #39 of 168 Old 03-20-2015, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
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Yeah but how long, normally, do you have to hold the starter button down for when starting a Honda 919 when the engine is cold (not started yet for the day)?
No. Sorry, should have stated I was just addressing the start without enrichener in cold. Mine starts right away - not very helpful for you captain, My bad.

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post #40 of 168 Old 03-20-2015, 05:12 PM Thread Starter
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I think it should be starting up right away when I first start it up in the morning, 4 seconds seems kind of long to me. I'm not throwing a trouble light, so maybe a sensor is on its way out. The bike is about to hit the 8k mile mark, but that is low. It is running a lot better though.

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