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post #1 of 33 Old 05-05-2009, 04:25 PM Thread Starter
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Help me understand

I have new de-baffled pipes from HondaStreetfigh on my bike and now the bike is running Air lean, Fuel rich (i think). It is blowing white smoke on start up and has some serious unburnt fuel stank. I have a K&N in my near future will that fix the problem? Why do I have unburnt fuel when I am pulling more air? It seems like it would be running Air rich and fuel lean... Help?

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post #2 of 33 Old 05-05-2009, 04:39 PM
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Simple answer.... you may be reaching the limit of the stock filter (I doubt it) and computer is compensating for what it perceives as added air by dumping in more fuel.

The real answer would take pages and pages to verbalize in real world terms........ ummm, When you change one end of the equation the other end is... well... Remember in school when you learned that every action has an equal but opposite reaction? That is kind of how you would think, but when you factor in the added flow and scavenging of the better flowing exhaust you are not only pulling in more air but fuel also.

On carburetor vehicles, if you port and polish the head, add high comp piston... ect... you end up having to jet down. Many people would assume that jetting up would be required, but that is not always the case.

Perhaps someone with better verbalization skills can describe it better? I see it in my head but can't write it down.

What do you need to do??? Try the K&N and if that doesn't correct the issue try true slip on exhaust. With out dyno time you will never truly know where you are at on your A/F.

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post #3 of 33 Old 05-05-2009, 04:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
Simple answer.... you may be reaching the limit of the stock filter (I doubt it) and computer is compensating for what it perceives as added air by dumping in more fuel.

What do you need to do??? Try the K&N and if that doesn't correct the issue try true slip on exhaust. With out dyno time you will never truly know where you are at on your A/F.
I didnt realize it worked that but it kind of makes sense.
I cant afford a slip on exhaust right now or I would have done that instead of the debaffled cans. My mechanic said after I got the PCIII he would dyno it and make me a custom map for $250 total.

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post #4 of 33 Old 05-05-2009, 04:47 PM
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hey luke that stuff is in the mail...


and a puff of white smoke?? when is the last time you changed the oil??



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post #5 of 33 Old 05-05-2009, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barton664 View Post
hey luke that stuff is in the mail...


and a puff of white smoke?? when is the last time you changed the oil??
I changed it 3 weeks and maybe 1200 miles ago... It goes away after like 2 minutes.

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post #6 of 33 Old 05-05-2009, 04:53 PM
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On my built TRX450R for example... (my actual numbers may be a bit off, I am getting old)

Stock to Piped required going from a 150 to 205 Main and 48 to 50 Pilot

Piped and added Stage 2 Cam required going from 205 to 180 and keeping 50

Piped, stage 2 Cam and adding 13.5 Piston required 180 to 175 and 50 back to 48.

Piped, stage 2 Cam, 13.5 Piston and Ported head required 175 and back to the 50 Pilot.

Full built motor (14.5 piston, Dangerously aggressive Cam, ported head, Stroked, ect.) from 175 main to 168 and 50 Pilot.

So a small change required more fuel and as I progressed, for the most part, my jet size went down.

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post #7 of 33 Old 05-05-2009, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basspiece919 View Post
I changed it 3 weeks and maybe 1200 miles ago... It goes away after like 2 minutes.
does it have a "sweet smell" to it... kinda sickly sweet??



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post #8 of 33 Old 05-05-2009, 05:54 PM Thread Starter
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I can check in the morning, why what does that mean?

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post #9 of 33 Old 05-05-2009, 06:12 PM
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not an expert but rich is usually back or blue smoke, water makes it white

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post #10 of 33 Old 05-05-2009, 06:16 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by todd442 View Post
not an expert but rich is usually back or blue smoke, water makes it white
Hmm well it has been constant rain for what seems like weeks... Which would explain that. It might be switching to a different color after the white goes away. I have been just getting on and riding it... I will start it up in the AM and see what is going on.

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post #11 of 33 Old 05-05-2009, 06:20 PM
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Brian is sniffing around the fact that if it smelled sweet it could be the Head Gasket.

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post #12 of 33 Old 05-05-2009, 06:21 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
Brian is sniffing around the fact that if it smelled sweet it could be the Head Gasket.
ugg... I am gunna go check....

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post #13 of 33 Old 05-05-2009, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basspiece919 View Post
I can check in the morning, why what does that mean?
Quote:
Originally Posted by todd442 View Post
not an expert but rich is usually back or blue smoke, water makes it white
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
Brian is sniffing around the fact that if it smelled sweet it could be the Head Gasket.
ding ding.... i didnt wanna scare you... but..... it is possible that you have a blown head gasket.. antifreeze makes white smoke and has a "sweet" smell to it.. very distinctive...

also look at your oil... see if there is a white kinda curdled milk looking stuff in the sight glass.. and lift the tank and open the radiator cap and check under it for the same substance...


there is good news tho... the fact that it only smokes for a min or 2 says it is just a little seep... and probably has not fubar'd anything...



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post #14 of 33 Old 05-05-2009, 06:24 PM
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If its white and goes away after a couple of mins....its probably condensation.

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post #15 of 33 Old 05-05-2009, 06:32 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barton664 View Post
ding ding.... i didnt wanna scare you... but..... it is possible that you have a blown head gasket.. antifreeze makes white smoke and has a "sweet" smell to it.. very distinctive...

also look at your oil... see if there is a white kinda curdled milk looking stuff in the sight glass.. and lift the tank and open the radiator cap and check under it for the same substance...


there is good news tho... the fact that it only smokes for a min or 2 says it is just a little seep... and probably has not fubar'd anything...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
Brian is sniffing around the fact that if it smelled sweet it could be the Head Gasket.

Okay I just started it up in the garage (In other words it has been out of the rain for 2 hours) no smoke at all. I dont know what you mean by sweet but I smelled a very strong "exhaust stink." Like its blowing gasoline out its butt...
I am thinking its the water because I have only noticed it after it has been parked in this god forsaken rain... and the new pipes dont have anything to stop water from running down them. I will check the oil and radiator cap tomorrow night *crosses fingers*

Thanks for the scare Barton... and right after I spent $30 on your handlebars to... If it is the head gasket thats a BIG deal right. What would make that go?

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post #16 of 33 Old 05-05-2009, 06:43 PM
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ok... i didnt know about the rain...

since you didnt smell that smell... just raw gas... i am betting money it is just rain water running down the exhaust and then evaporating with the heat.... you are ok...

sorry for the scare... next time tell me it is raining and its parked outside..



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post #17 of 33 Old 05-05-2009, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
Brian is sniffing around the fact that if it smelled sweet it could be the Head Gasket.
I highly doubt that. How many miles do you have on it bud?

This is a Honda.
It is well built.
Unless you haven't been taking care of it, I doubt you have internal issues.

Condensation builds up in exhaust systems as they sit. Expecially when it is humid out and you'll notice more, what seems to be white smoke, occur during humid or cold climate.

More then likely your just seeing the condensation blowing out.

If you were losing a head gasket, you'd be using coolant, you'd smell it cause it is very obvious and your overflow would be empty.


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post #18 of 33 Old 05-05-2009, 06:56 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barton664 View Post
sorry for the scare... next time tell me it is raining and its parked outside..
It goes everywhere i go, rain, shine, snow or sleet. I am working on a way to keep the rain out of the pipes but it shouldnt be doing any damage, if its outside its only for a few hours before it goes home and back in the garage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McCrimmon View Post
I highly doubt that. How many miles do you have on it bud?

This is a Honda.
It is well built.
Unless you haven't been taking care of it, I doubt you have internal issues.

Condensation builds up in exhaust systems as they sit. Expecially when it is humid out and you'll notice more, what seems to be white smoke, occur during humid or cold climate.

More then likely your just seeing the condensation blowing out.

If you were losing a head gasket, you'd be using coolant, you'd smell it cause it is very obvious and your overflow would be empty.
It has 17,900 miles on it :001_smile: almost all of them are mine and they have been well maintained miles. I change the oil every 3 or 4k and just checked my valves.

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post #19 of 33 Old 05-05-2009, 06:59 PM
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You bike is fine...Keep up the maintenance and don't sweat it!


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post #20 of 33 Old 05-05-2009, 07:02 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McCrimmon View Post
You bike is fine...Keep up the maintenance and don't sweat it!
I cant help but sweat it... I am almost kinda paranoid about. Anyways thanks for the help all. I am sure it wont be long before I have another dumb question to ask. Trying to learn so that someday when I am old and almost dead like all you guys I can do the answering

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post #21 of 33 Old 05-05-2009, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basspiece919 View Post
Trying to learn so that someday when I am old and almost dead like all you guys I can do the answering
why you little...

















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post #22 of 33 Old 05-05-2009, 07:07 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barton664 View Post
why you little...


Wait what did I say? All I said was that someday I hope I can help younger less wise guys like your all always helping me.

Thanks by the way to everyone (especially Brian) for all the help in the past and future. This site has saved me countless paranoid trips to the shop.

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post #23 of 33 Old 05-05-2009, 07:09 PM
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yeah... if my cohorts would learn to string stuff out we coulda had you on nerve medicine by morning time... :evilgrin:...



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post #24 of 33 Old 05-05-2009, 07:19 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barton664 View Post
yeah... if my cohorts would learn to string stuff out we coulda had you on nerve medicine by morning time... :evilgrin:...
And I would have gone right along with it to... You would have had me hook line and sinker.

How does it feel to take joy in harassing a young guy whose whole life is tied up into the two wheels in the garage by scaring him like that... If you hadnt told me about your impressive past I would come down there and

Okay no i wouldnt...

:-D

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post #25 of 33 Old 05-05-2009, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basspiece919 View Post
How does it feel to take joy in harassing a young guy whose whole life is tied up into the two wheels in the garage by scaring him like that...
ummmmmm.... feels normal...

but you never said anything about rain... rain is a mitigating factor...



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post #26 of 33 Old 05-05-2009, 07:40 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barton664 View Post
ummmmmm.... feels normal...

but you never said anything about rain... rain is a mitigating factor...
I am sorry i did not say anything about the rain. It has been raining for way to long...

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post #27 of 33 Old 05-05-2009, 07:46 PM
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post #28 of 33 Old 05-05-2009, 08:24 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barton664 View Post
it can't rain forever
i hope not...

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post #29 of 33 Old 05-06-2009, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basspiece919 View Post

Wait what did I say? All I said was that someday I hope I can help younger less wise guys like your all always helping me.
I have a tendency to call people old too. Something about being 24 you know. my parents are "old" at 44. and people 50 are like dirt...I mean...I'd have to live my whole life to this point over again to be their age. As I keep getting a little older myself, I realize they really aren't that old and that every older guy I've ridden with can out ride me with their left arm tied behind their back. Not to mention the fact that the extra 15 - 25 years of experience has made them much wiser to the ways of life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barton664 View Post
it can't rain forever
If you lived in Owensboro, KY you would think so. of the last 11 days, it has only been sunny one day...and it even sprinkled that morning up to about 5:00 am. Stupid rain!

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post #30 of 33 Old 05-06-2009, 06:04 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmurphy84 View Post
I have a tendency to call people old too. Something about being 24 you know. my parents are "old" at 44. and people 50 are like dirt...I mean...I'd have to live my whole life to this point over again to be their age. As I keep getting a little older myself, I realize they really aren't that old and that every older guy I've ridden with can out ride me with their left arm tied behind their back. Not to mention the fact that the extra 15 - 25 years of experience has made them much wiser to the ways of life.



If you lived in Owensboro, KY you would think so. of the last 11 days, it has only been sunny one day...and it even sprinkled that morning up to about 5:00 am. Stupid rain!

Totally agree.

And we are in the same boat with the weather.

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post #31 of 33 Old 05-06-2009, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barton664 View Post
it can't rain forever
Quote:
Originally Posted by Basspiece919 View Post
i hope not...

Yup...The weather pretty much sucks asssprin right now...May be clear by this weekend...I hope so, I'm putting up a new privacy fence


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post #32 of 33 Old 05-06-2009, 06:25 AM
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man... thats a shame... rain....


its like 80 something outside and the suns shining....

think i'll take a nap......



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post #33 of 33 Old 05-29-2009, 12:42 PM
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I don't care if it smells, or if it smokes a little on start up
How does it run,does it backfire on closed throttle?
If it's rich you should be able to close the throttle just a small bit when you're getting on the gas at high speed and you will feel the motor run a little better. I always used to do a spark plug check, if the electrodes are sooty, you're rich.Try cleaning the airfilter also with compressed air!

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