HELP - 919 won't start - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 51 Old 05-21-2013, 02:24 PM Thread Starter
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HELP - 919 won't start

Stuck in manhattan and can't ride home because my 919 won't start.

Battery is strong and turns starter motor.
Kill switch is connected and fuel pump primes.
Fuses look ok.
About a gallon of gas in the tank. I can see it at the bottom of my tank. Fuel light came on during commute to work, but I have a relatively short commute.

Any ideas?

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post #2 of 51 Old 05-21-2013, 02:50 PM
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That sucks
I just got my 919 Friday, so I know pretty much nothing. Someone here will come through for ya...
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post #3 of 51 Old 05-21-2013, 03:11 PM
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It won't turn over if the sidestand switch is shorted, will it?

And if it is low on gas, have you tried tipping the bike to the left while cranking? Or pointing the nose uphill, if you can...

Sucks being stranded man. Good luck.

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post #4 of 51 Old 05-21-2013, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
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Exhaust and intake look clear. Spark plugs still there. Maybe too much water got into the kill switch and is causing issues? Not sure about that since the fuel pump primes when I turn the bike on. Maybe it's the ignition cutoff on Scorpio alarm malfunctioning?

I have someone coming with some extra gas we can throw in the tank and a wire cutter so I can bypass the ignition cutoff. If it's a gas issue, hopefully dumping some extra gas will push whatever is in there through. I hope it's an alarm issue though because that's easier to fix.

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post #5 of 51 Old 05-21-2013, 03:17 PM
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is it making any sort of 'buzzing' noise [from fuse box] when trying to start? if yes then it's the battery.

I'm not sure what else it could be that hasn't been mentioned....

good luck man.

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post #6 of 51 Old 05-21-2013, 04:22 PM
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Good luck dude. Might be the starter/kill switch. Would be helpful to take the housing apart and blow out any water you might have and re-attempt to start it. Also check kickstand switch.

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post #7 of 51 Old 05-21-2013, 04:42 PM
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The fuel pump primes and it cranks so it's not the kickstand or clutch switch. Can you pull a plug wire to check for spark? Be careful, it might bite a little...

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post #8 of 51 Old 05-21-2013, 05:10 PM
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If the pump primes and the starter motor spins, it's either no spark or no gas.

Put gas in it and start from there.

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post #9 of 51 Old 05-21-2013, 07:21 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you for the suggestions so far.

Ended up calling a tow truck and got it home. F'ed up thing is that after I got it home, it started up. However, idle rpm was at about 800rpm instead of the usual 1200. Playing around with the idle adjuster didn't do anything. All 4 cylinders seem to be firing and the pipes feel hot, but cylinder #1 feels cooler to the touch than the others.

Spark plug issue? Dirty injectors? Anyone ever try using fuel injector cleaner in a bike?

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post #10 of 51 Old 05-21-2013, 07:28 PM
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Sounds ecu/electrical related. That sucks man, I'm interested in what you'll find out.

I've ran Techron fuel system cleaner with no ill effect. Same with seafoam. Just make sure to use the correct ration of cleaner to gas. Flood that starter switch with WD40 to get any water out.

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post #11 of 51 Old 05-21-2013, 08:07 PM
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Any MIL codes?

Could be a TPS related issue since it seems to have adjusted idle rpm on you.

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post #12 of 51 Old 05-21-2013, 09:50 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewebay1 View Post
Sounds ecu/electrical related. That sucks man, I'm interested in what you'll find out.

I've ran Techron fuel system cleaner with no ill effect. Same with seafoam. Just make sure to use the correct ration of cleaner to gas. Flood that starter switch with WD40 to get any water out.
It's weird that it wouldn't start up in the afternoon, but start up after getting it home. Only thing that changed was a ride in the back of a pickup truck. Bike was working fine this morning when I left for work. Seems more like a mechanical issue, but maybe I'm just being optimistic and hoping it's something simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliMech View Post
Any MIL codes?

Could be a TPS related issue since it seems to have adjusted idle rpm on you.
I'll have to dig into this one tomorrow afternoon. Got home pretty late and had to go out to grab dinner.

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post #13 of 51 Old 05-21-2013, 10:09 PM
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I've used injector cleaner without issues. Just mix the recommended ratio.

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post #14 of 51 Old 05-22-2013, 02:32 AM
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Relays and fuses checked out and seated proper?

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post #15 of 51 Old 05-22-2013, 12:57 PM
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have you checked the leads on the battery to make sure they are tight, as well as the main ground on the frame on the throttle side of the backbone under the tank?

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post #16 of 51 Old 05-22-2013, 01:23 PM
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Fouled plug due to a failed fuel pressure regulator? If two cylinders were cool, I'd say look at the coils. With just one cool, probably not the case.

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post #17 of 51 Old 05-22-2013, 01:27 PM Thread Starter
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I'm checking the spark plugs and ignition coils tonight for any water / humidity. One thing I forgot to mention earlier was that I was riding through heavy wet conditions through most of Sunday. Leftover water + high temps yesterday may have allowed water vapor to get into places it shouldn't be. The tow ride home may have displaced some of it allowing me to start the engine when I got home.

Really keeping my fingers crossed that it's a simple fix.

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post #18 of 51 Old 05-22-2013, 05:12 PM Thread Starter
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Just started but I figured I'd post this to see if anything clicks.

919 weird idle - YouTube

Also looks like there's some water in the engine when I look inside the pair valves.


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post #19 of 51 Old 05-22-2013, 05:24 PM
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sounds like it's running on 3 cyls :/

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post #20 of 51 Old 05-22-2013, 05:35 PM
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I have noticed condensation like that under the PAIR cover before as well on my bike. Which is stored inside and never out in the rain, don't worry about it.

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post #21 of 51 Old 05-22-2013, 05:45 PM
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Do the same thing as u did in the video, but with the tank propped up so you can access the plug wires.

- With it idling pull off a plug wire to see if changes rpm/sound or stalls out. Do this alternating between all four cylinders one at a time to locate the problem cylinder/cylinders.

Also ......

- if you rev it with that idle does it behave normally or backfire and act up.
- pull the MIL codes and check for stored codes.

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post #22 of 51 Old 05-22-2013, 06:00 PM Thread Starter
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This is what plug #1 looks like. Wonder if this is the culprit. All other plugs look much cleaner.



Ignition coils look ok, all sealed up. Going to try taking off ignition caps as suggested.

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post #23 of 51 Old 05-22-2013, 06:35 PM
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Is that oil on those threads?

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post #24 of 51 Old 05-22-2013, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
Is that oil on those threads?
Bad sign right there. Idle issues + oiled plug usually = piston rings. If that oil only on plug threads, could be anything from leaking cover gasket to cracked head. I hope all the above is not the case though. Do the leak down test.

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post #25 of 51 Old 05-22-2013, 06:53 PM
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On the other hand, scratch VC gasket, your plug is clean above those threads. Like I said above, leak down test will show your issue : piston rings, valve seals, valve guides, cylinder walls. Hope it's not the case though.

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post #26 of 51 Old 05-22-2013, 07:14 PM
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A little dab'll do ya.
This stuff on both ends of your spark plug wires and ALL your electrical connections will pretty much waterproof your ride.
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post #27 of 51 Old 05-22-2013, 09:35 PM Thread Starter
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Had to drop off for a few hours to take care of dinner and other things, will work again on bike tomorrow, but the help so far has been very beneficial.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliMech View Post
- With it idling pull off a plug wire to see if changes rpm/sound or stalls out. Do this alternating between all four cylinders one at a time to locate the problem cylinder/cylinders.

Also ......

- if you rev it with that idle does it behave normally or backfire and act up.
- pull the MIL codes and check for stored codes.
Cylinder 1 is definitely not firing. While the engine is running, pulling the plug wire for 2 through 4 stalls the engine, but pulling it out of 1 does nothing. I'm getting new spark plugs tomorrow and replacing all 4. Reving it up from idle actually sounds normal and I'm not hearing any backfire or anything else. Didn't get a chance to check the MIL codes, but will do so tomorrow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
Is that oil on those threads?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaq123 View Post
Bad sign right there. Idle issues + oiled plug usually = piston rings. If that oil only on plug threads, could be anything from leaking cover gasket to cracked head. I hope all the above is not the case though. Do the leak down test.
I think I discovered the source of the oil on the spark plug threads while researching older threads here on spark plugs found this one on not using anti-seize:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shmoo View Post
Thanks for the post.

I've always used a lil oil from the dip stick. And a torque wrench.
It's probably a leftover from when Shmoo changed plugs.

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post #28 of 51 Old 05-24-2013, 04:59 AM
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Got an update?

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post #29 of 51 Old 05-24-2013, 11:47 AM Thread Starter
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Problem solved?

Only MIL code that showed up was a 13 for #2 Injector. Odd that injector #1 didn't come up since that cylinder wasn't firing. I replaced all 4 spark plugs and ignition coils were functioning so those weren't the issue.

Anyway, inspected connections with a multimeter on both injectors #1 and #2 and things came back in spec according to the service manual and matched readings from the 3rd and 4th injector. Inspected the wires and plugs coming in and out and made sure everything was connected. I also pour in some fuel injector cleaner for the hell of it and mix it around.

Started it up and voila, it's idling fine and all 4 cylinders are firing. I let it idle for a while and things sound normal. So it seems like the problem was a bad connection to the injectors or a clog in the fuel system. Going out for a ride soon to see how it feels on the road.

Also reset the MIL codes for now. Let's see if anything comes back up.

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post #30 of 51 Old 05-24-2013, 01:07 PM
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Fingers crossed!

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post #31 of 51 Old 05-24-2013, 01:09 PM
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Alright, happy endings. So how exactly did the oil get on the threads? Some kind of winter storing deal from Shmoo

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post #32 of 51 Old 05-24-2013, 01:18 PM Thread Starter
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He puts a bit of oil on the spark plug threads before putting them in.

Weather turned cold and wet for the rest of the day so no test ride unfortunately.

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post #33 of 51 Old 05-24-2013, 07:48 PM
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So did the threads on all the plugs look the same?
It seems to me that a small coating of oil will cook away in a short amount of time. Although anti-seize seems to stick around so maybe i'm all wet.

Mark

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post #34 of 51 Old 05-25-2013, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark919 View Post
So did the threads on all the plugs look the same?
It seems to me that a small coating of oil will cook away in a short amount of time. Although anti-seize seems to stick around so maybe i'm all wet.

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post #35 of 51 Old 05-25-2013, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark919 View Post
So did the threads on all the plugs look the same?
It seems to me that a small coating of oil will cook away in a short amount of time. Although anti-seize seems to stick around so maybe i'm all wet.

Mark
No need to use anything. Plugs are coated to prevent seizure so just install them clean and dry.

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post #36 of 51 Old 05-25-2013, 09:02 PM
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I'm still puzzled as to where the oil came from in the photo from post #22. Is this just a valve cover leak? It seems to me it should have cooked away if it had just been an assembly thing.

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post #37 of 51 Old 05-26-2013, 07:08 AM Thread Starter
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Update - took the bike out for about an hour to roam around for a bit and bike feels back to normal. Hopefully it should be ok from here on and I'll just remember to put some fuel injector cleaner in every oil change or so.

Plug #1 was the only plug that came out looking like that, other plugs were fine. Not 100% sure if it was just oil or other buildup from the cylinder not firing. I'm going to take it out again and inspect it once I get some more miles on the bike and the guages for a leak down and compression test come in.

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post #38 of 51 Old 05-26-2013, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark919 View Post
I'm still puzzled as to where the oil came from in the photo from post #22. Is this just a valve cover leak? It seems to me it should have cooked away if it had just been an assembly thing.
you would be surprised, the threads on the spark plug dont really get all that hot.

he stated he puts a drop of oil on the threads before installing them.


As far as why it wasnt running id bet water got in somewhere where it wasnt wanted, but i would definitely check the main ground on the battery as well as the ground on the frame under the tank.

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post #39 of 51 Old 06-06-2013, 06:56 AM Thread Starter
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Looks like the gremlins are back. Still having startup issues and now stalling issues too.

Engine stutters and coughs a bit on startup. If I turn the bike on and let the fuel pump prime once, bike will crank but won't ignite. Flip the kill switch off/on to let the fuel pump run again and the engine will cough a bit and fire up with a little additional throttle. Idles OK after that.

Bike has stalled 3 times on me while riding on 3 separate days. First time was on Saturday going about 30 mph. Second time was yesterday going about 5 mph in heavy traffic. Today was the last time going at about 60 mph on the highway. Each time, I pull over and if I try to start it up again, I'll crank, but no ignition. If I let the bike cool off for a few minutes, it will fire up again with a bit coughing/stutter and some throttle.

The stalling seems to be an overheating issue, but it's difficult to replicate and happens without warning. I was watching the temp gauge and it was no more than 2/3 of the way up, not close to the red zone at all. The first time on Saturday, temps were in the high 80s. The 2nd and 3rd time, temps were around 70. Also, after it stalled today and I got it started again, I rode through spots of heavy traffic at about 5 mph for 15 minutes and no stalling issues even though the temp gauge was at around the same place.

I don't think it's 100% an overheating issue, but the bike has 27.5K miles so I'm going to do a coolant flush and clean the radiator anyway. I also have a new fuel filter, fuel return filter, and air filter on the way. FPR has already been replaced on Tuesday. Planning on taking off the tank and cleaning out whatever I can from the inside. I'm also going to try yanking the PCIII.

Will check to see if any MIL codes show up. While the tank is off, I might as well do a compression test since the gauge finally arrived this week. We'll see how that goes.

Any other thoughts?

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49/50 visited on two wheels. 1 more to go!
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post #40 of 51 Old 06-08-2013, 07:06 AM
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Location: Cincinnati
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Have you checked your valves clearances? Fuel pressure regulator maybe?

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