Fuel consumption issue - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 46 Old 03-01-2015, 09:17 AM Thread Starter
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Fuel consumption issue

So at one point last December, I noticed that my gas light went on at 68 miles (normally I light up at around 130). Thinking this was a fluke, I filled up and parked the bike, only to have it taken out in its spot. This led to the bike being parked for about a month and a half.

Got it back on the road earlier this month, and this mileage issue is still around. Two more tanks lit up at ~70 miles. As usual, put in ~3.8 gallons to top off. Now something's definitely wrong.

I changed the plugs a few days ago to stock from iridiums (which included lifting the tank and looking around for leaks as someone suggested; nothing) and filled up. Last night the light went on at 48 miles.

It was a pretty sudden drop, so I'm sure it's not the air filter (was changed last summer). Should I be looking at the FPR? The bearings are in good shape.

Can someone suggest something? I've learned the hard way to have a KISS approach to this bike, but my regular mechanic dude is indefinitely MIA and I'm at a bit of a loss.

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post #2 of 46 Old 03-01-2015, 09:27 AM
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You're burning almost 4 gallons of fuel in 70 miles?!

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post #3 of 46 Old 03-01-2015, 09:32 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmb View Post
You're burning almost 4 gallons of fuel in 70 miles?!
Yep.

I thought the plugs would look super fouled up from running extremely rich or something, but this is what they looked like.:



Thinking there's maybe a leak that only occurs while the engine is running? Other than that it doesn't make sense.

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post #4 of 46 Old 03-01-2015, 09:42 AM
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Yea, i wouldn't smoke around your bike... You have something going on there... You don't smell gas anywhere around the bike?

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post #5 of 46 Old 03-01-2015, 09:56 AM
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Is there any possibility of someone stealing gas from your bike or someone just messing with you? If you have that bad of an external leak I would think you would have a pretty heavy gas smell. If the FPR is leaking that bad, it would seem that the bike would really run like crap.

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post #6 of 46 Old 03-01-2015, 10:08 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marylandmike View Post
Is there any possibility of someone stealing gas from your bike or someone just messing with you? If you have that bad of an external leak I would think you would have a pretty heavy gas smell. If the FPR is leaking that bad, it would seem that the bike would really run like crap.
Highly doubt that. I would think if that was the case it wouldn't be as consistent, especially with the downtime in-between (during which it was parked in a garage). Also, the FPR was changed last summer when I was troubleshooting something else and the bike seems to run pretty normally. As for smelling gas, no smell until I spilled some gas on my riding pants when changing the plugs (long story), but I notice that more at home than when on it.

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post #7 of 46 Old 03-01-2015, 02:59 PM
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Hmmm. I was thinking FPR too based on your title but not with such poor mileage.

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post #8 of 46 Old 03-01-2015, 03:37 PM
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If it is the FPR the part # is "16740-MCZ-013" Partzilla has them for $59.
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post #9 of 46 Old 03-01-2015, 03:40 PM
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googlit is stealing it to get 5.2 gallons in his tank.


I would go back to stock style copper core plugs. And change out the FPR, cus really, the FPR is the ONLY thing on these bikes that would cause fuel consumption like that, and even if it was changed recently it could of been old stock and wore out / rotted quickly.

Also take the quick second to check the air filter make sure a rat hasnt made a nest in there, and jack up the front and rear tires to make sure they spin freely.

But id bet FPR, and im not a betting man.

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post #10 of 46 Old 03-01-2015, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
If it is the FPR the part # is "16740-MCZ-013" Partzilla has them for $59.
It's $55.85 at hondabike.com out in Spokane, WA but Partzilla may do you better on shipping.

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post #11 of 46 Old 03-01-2015, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by HRC27 View Post
It's $55.85 at hondabike.com out in Spokane, WA but Partzilla may do you better on shipping.
always something cheaper. It was 65 shipped at partzilla. Just went through google shopping. Can't see hondabike.com's shipping cost.
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post #12 of 46 Old 03-01-2015, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
always something cheaper. It was 65 shipped at partzilla. Just went through google shopping. Can't see hondabike.com's shipping cost.
On just a FPR, probably $10-$15. If you have enough stuff to order, sometimes it's better to order from Rocky Mrn ATV and get their $99 and free shipping. Much faster too than hondabike.com, especially if you live on the east coast. It consistently takes hondabike 2 weeks to get my parts to Florida. Worth it on expensive parts though.

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post #13 of 46 Old 03-01-2015, 08:45 PM
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So if the issue is the FPR then there will be evidence with the fuel in the vacuum line. I'm guessing there is no FPR issue without that.
If it is not the FPR then there is some significant drag somewhere. Have there been issues with brakes dragging? Need to check this when cold and hot. Contaminated brake fluid could cause pressure build up when hot. Or maybe the levers or sliders or pads are binding. Have the brakes been cleaned and greased recently.
Another drag could be wheel bearings - but you should feel that with a free spin check.

Good luck,
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post #14 of 46 Old 03-02-2015, 11:24 AM
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In the vein of KISS, what is your warm up routine? Are you letting the bike run for a while before you ride off? I was involved with a conversation with a guy about mileage once and went through the possibilities, then he described a 30 minute warm up routine.

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post #15 of 46 Old 03-02-2015, 11:35 AM Thread Starter
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I usually try to let the needle get to at least the bottom line before riding off. Sometimes pull the fast idle for a minute or so (more often now since it doesn't really like starting in sub 20f temps).

Read all the replies and realized that I did have quite a bit of fuel gushing out of the hose that goes to the FPR. Will update once I swap it.

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post #16 of 46 Old 03-02-2015, 01:22 PM
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If the bike is idling, get on it and ride it. Nothing better to warm up the temps than to give it gas. It just doesn't make sense to let it slowly get up to temp, when the best thing for the engine is to BE at temp. Get it there quicker by putting more fuel through (riding). Same applies to cars.

Just don't ride HARD until the oil is fully up to temp.

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post #17 of 46 Old 03-02-2015, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazaev View Post
I usually try to let the needle get to at least the bottom line before riding off. Sometimes pull the fast idle for a minute or so (more often now since it doesn't really like starting in sub 20f temps).

Read all the replies and realized that I did have quite a bit of fuel gushing out of the hose that goes to the FPR. Will update once I swap it.
If I waited for my needle to get to the line before riding I'd never leave... Sometimes I don't even hit the line when riding...

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post #18 of 46 Old 03-02-2015, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazaev View Post
I usually try to let the needle get to at least the bottom line before riding off. Sometimes pull the fast idle for a minute or so (more often now since it doesn't really like starting in sub 20f temps). Read all the replies and realized that I did have quite a bit of fuel gushing out of the hose that goes to the FPR. Will update once I swap it.
You are burning more fuel sitting still than you need to. How long are you sitting still running the motor? Your mileage will suffer. It sounds like you may have a bigger problem with fuel leaking from the pressure regulator, but you are losing mpg sitting still.

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post #19 of 46 Old 03-02-2015, 06:55 PM
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the ammount of idiling that the OP describes does NOT even come close to going through almost 4 gallons of fuel in 70mi of riding.

Its FPR, probably a small leak.

But again, take the 2 min to make sure wheels spin freely.

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post #20 of 46 Old 03-02-2015, 08:14 PM
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Not only could this be a FPR issue, but it could be a sensor. IDK if the EFI computer has any error code read outs, but it could be that the computer thinks the engine is cold.

Normally this would be shown in the plugs, but plug reading can be tough as they can get washed out and read the last bit of a run.

Some used to do a run, shut the engine off during the run, then pull the plugs.

An A/F ratio meter would tell a lot. I made one from an O2 sensor and a multi-meter to help tune a carb. What's nice about an A/F meter is that you can look at the whole picture real-time.

As far as plugs go, I think most just stick with the stock ones and have no problems with them.

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post #21 of 46 Old 03-03-2015, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post

As far as plugs go, I think most just stick with the stock ones and have no problems with them.
I'm pretty sure in the original post he said he changed back to the stock plugs from iridium plugs that he had had in previously.

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post #22 of 46 Old 03-03-2015, 09:55 AM
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Whether or not he's warming up his bike too long, or his plugs are going bad, something still doesn't add up - he's going through 4 gallons of gas within 70 miles!! He should be going through less than 2 gallons. Where are 2 gallons of fuel going to??
It isn't leaking out - 2 gallons draining out in less than 70 miles would be quite noticeable, but he doesn't see any leaks or smell gas fumes.
It isn't being stolen - The bike is stored in a garage, so nobody is breaking in and stealing the same amount of gas every time he fills up.
Is it being burned? - He says the bike runs properly. Is it even possible for an engine to run properly while consuming more than twice the normal amount of fuel??

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post #23 of 46 Old 03-03-2015, 01:59 PM
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He said there's a lot of fuel gushing out of the hose that goes to the FPR. Probably don't notice it when riding the bike because gas evaporates pretty quickly, especially if you're traveling at speed, and whatever would drip is falling under the bike or blowing away. That could fully account for the missing 2 gallons when spread out over 70 miles or so.

There's likely not a puddle of fuel during warm up because the fuel flow is (comparatively) low. As you increase RPM and fuel flow, more gas leaks out, evaporates, etc. I would think a good way to test this would be to run the engine in neutral at maybe 2-3k RPM and monitor the FPR for leaks. That being said, he's changing out the FPR, so that may take care of the issue.

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post #24 of 46 Old 03-03-2015, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSB_ESQ View Post
He said there's a lot of fuel gushing out of the hose that goes to the FPR.
Sorry, I mis-read this the first time through - I though he said there's NOT fuel gushing out...

I sure hope the new FPR fixes it!

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post #25 of 46 Old 03-03-2015, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSB_ESQ View Post
He said there's a lot of fuel gushing out of the hose that goes to the FPR. Probably don't notice it when riding the bike because gas evaporates pretty quickly, especially if you're traveling at speed, and whatever would drip is falling under the bike or blowing away. That could fully account for the missing 2 gallons when spread out over 70 miles or so.

There's likely not a puddle of fuel during warm up because the fuel flow is (comparatively) low. As you increase RPM and fuel flow, more gas leaks out, evaporates, etc. I would think a good way to test this would be to run the engine in neutral at maybe 2-3k RPM and monitor the FPR for leaks. That being said, he's changing out the FPR, so that may take care of the issue.
I would think (hope) he would smell gas at some point...

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post #26 of 46 Old 03-05-2015, 03:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
If the bike is idling, get on it and ride it. Nothing better to warm up the temps than to give it gas. It just doesn't make sense to let it slowly get up to temp, when the best thing for the engine is to BE at temp. Get it there quicker by putting more fuel through (riding). Same applies to cars.

Just don't ride HARD until the oil is fully up to temp.
+1

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post #27 of 46 Old 03-06-2015, 07:38 AM
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Last year my motorcycle was backed into by an unaware cager in a parking lot. I caught him as he was attempting to leave after already having picked up my bike and said there was no damage so he was going to leave. I asked him if he was blind because the side the bike landed on was completely Rashed. as a result the insurance company replaced the fuel tank with a brand new one. as the repair center normally does they tried to skimp on some parts and I was unsatisfied with the condition of the bike once it was finished. they were only trying to go for the insurance dollars and I ordered some cheaper parts then what was originally on the bike. the gas tank however was an OEM gas tank from Honda however they did use my internal float for my original gas tank. ever since then my gas light always comes on between 60 and 70 miles having been burnt. I'm sure it's just the sensor inside the tank is mounted incorrectly and causing this as I still get my normal fill ups and range around 140 miles per tank full. I'm also putting in around 3.5 to 3.8 on max fill. I know it's inconvenient however I decided not to take my bike back to that shop even if the insurance is covering it as I fear they might do more damage to the bike than good. It could possibly be when you lifted your tank you might have affected the sensor inside. just a guess on my part. Good luck with sorting it all out.

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post #28 of 46 Old 03-06-2015, 08:10 AM
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Lifting the tank will not affect the sensor at all.

Taking it out of the tank and reinstalling it will, if one is not careful. It's a long wire basically. Take out your fuel pump carefully and see if you can spot where it was bent and try to fix it.

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post #29 of 46 Old 03-06-2015, 09:25 AM
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140 miles to a tank when you put in 3.5 gallons means you still have another 1.5 gallons in there.

Spoiler:

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post #30 of 46 Old 03-06-2015, 09:31 AM
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That's all my tank will hold 3.5 gallons. Around 40 mpg x 3 =120 plus the .5 an extra 20 or so miles. I usually fill up around 125 or so I prefer not to push it.

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post #31 of 46 Old 03-06-2015, 09:32 AM
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always something cheaper. It was 65 shipped at partzilla. Just went through google shopping. Can't see hondabike.com's shipping cost.
Don't forget that if you join HRCA (free) you get a ~10-15% discount on parts from most participating dealers. Basically, jobber cost. Yes, including the local dealers here in DFW.

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post #32 of 46 Old 03-06-2015, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnsteO View Post
That's all my tank will hold 3.5 gallons. Around 40 mpg x 3 =120 plus the .5 an extra 20 or so miles. I usually fill up around 125 or so I prefer not to push it.
Did you have some massive dents filled? Now we know where the extra space in the 5.2 liter tank came from.

Spoiler:

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post #33 of 46 Old 03-06-2015, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnsteO View Post
That's all my tank will hold 3.5 gallons. Around 40 mpg x 3 =120 plus the .5 an extra 20 or so miles. I usually fill up around 125 or so I prefer not to push it.
If you have an intact tank, it should hold more. Maybe not the classic '5.2' that's controversial around here, but the light shouldn't come on until about 4 gallons are down, not 3.

This is what I get if I really, really run mine down - and my tank is damaged so it's a little under factory spec:

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post #34 of 46 Old 03-06-2015, 09:40 AM
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My tank is brand new and cane directly from Honda so all I can say is that it hold 3.5 to 3.7 is the most I've ever added.

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post #35 of 46 Old 03-06-2015, 09:44 AM
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Then it sounds like your low fuel sensor is definitely improperly installed.

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post #36 of 46 Old 03-06-2015, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
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Then it sounds like your low fuel sensor is definitely improperly installed.
Agreed. It might be bent too high within the tank which would cause the fuel light to turn on sooner. Rob has a great post regarding the fuel sensor. I'm on my cell so I can't search for it but if you or someone can find it for you, it would be worth the read.

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post #37 of 46 Old 03-06-2015, 01:01 PM
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As mentioned above, you just need to slightly bend the signal rod/wire thingy down, so that it gets triggered at a lower level than it is now.

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post #38 of 46 Old 03-06-2015, 02:17 PM
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Yeah it is a detail thing that although it bugs its really not hurting anything so its very low on my list of things to fix. I'll get around to it someday I'm not planning on selling anytime soon so I guess I'm that guy riding around with the light always on. As long as its not the Fi light anyways...

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post #39 of 46 Old 03-11-2015, 12:12 AM Thread Starter
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So I swapped the fpr the other day for my old one that I pulled last year (it wasn't the problem, so I figured I'd check if it changes anything before plonking down for a new one). Also an oil change and a cam chain tensioner swap (had the classic tensioner noise going on for a while now)

Ironically, as I pull up to my building on the way back (autozone parking lot is great for oil changes and misc work when no garage is available) my neighbor comes up and says the bike smells like gas.

Anyway, will update once I run through the tank. Thanks for all the suggestions!

Also, I tried running the engine at various rpms today with the tank lifted and couldn't spot any drips or leaks.

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post #40 of 46 Old 03-14-2015, 03:50 AM
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Do you still have a PCIII connected to your bike?

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