Front Pilot Road 4 - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 45 Old 08-04-2015, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
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Front Pilot Road 4

I recently got caught in a 45 mile drive in the rain, after about 4 hours of waiting the brunt of the storm out inside. This was about the best real test with my new (front only) Pilot road 4 tire. I still haven't upgraded the back yet and am still running a Metzeler in the rear.

Anyways, when I came to the first flyover ramp to jump on the interstate, I felt confident until I hit an expansion joint. It felt like the front tire slipped just a little. I thought it was just my nerves. The only thing was I never felt this is the steering of a bike, in the rain.

Could I be mistaken the feeling as it was gripping even better and what I felt was just the tire grabbing the metal or did my tire actually slip a little. I never felt the rear slip any and I wasn't using the brake at all while riding over the expansion joints. I should mention that the first fly over ramp is one big curve, so I was slightly leaned over, and was only taking the turn at about 35MPH - maybe even less.

As for the back tire, I have locked it up once before and that was when it was bone dry. I hardly ever use my rear brake. I especially don't use it when the pavement is wet.

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post #2 of 45 Old 08-04-2015, 04:00 PM
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Wet metal will cause a slip with almost any tyre, I would think - it's one of the urban road hazards I watch for closely, especially those huge round manhole covers - in my city they are nice bare metal, and although they have a ribbed surface, they are diabolical when wet.

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post #3 of 45 Old 08-04-2015, 04:05 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah have come close to slipping on a man hole cover, but I never felt the expansion joint slip before with the metzelers. These pilot road 4 tires where supposed to be even better in the wet than all the other tires. At least that was the main marketing strategy that suckered me into buying them. I wasn't even hitting them hard.

I wish I had the money to construct some out riggers on the bike and actually test these tires against other brands and models of similar class. That way we can have a better comparison. I would think that bare metal would be just as similar to painted lines.

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post #4 of 45 Old 08-04-2015, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by K1w1Boy View Post
Wet metal will cause a slip with almost any tyre, I would think - it's one of the urban road hazards I watch for closely, especially those huge round manhole covers - in my city they are nice bare metal, and although they have a ribbed surface, they are diabolical when wet.
Yep, I don't know that there's a tyre (for retail purposes) that will grip on wet metal. One of the things I look out for, even in the dry, is man-hole covers on corners.

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post #5 of 45 Old 08-04-2015, 04:15 PM Thread Starter
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Maybe I am just being over critical. I am going to eventually get a pilot road 4 for the back wheel, so then I will be able to make a comparison. I will just keep an I on how the metzelers react in the rain and then compare it to the pilot road 4 when I make the swtich.

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post #6 of 45 Old 08-04-2015, 04:17 PM
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It's not just metal, it's paint. If the paint is newer, it hold water and can be very slick.

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post #7 of 45 Old 08-04-2015, 06:09 PM
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Pretty sure the tire slipped, or at least had a drastic change in comparable grip - enough to feel the difference.

Don't ever hit a manhole cover while leaned over (especially when 20 degrees out and there is frost on it).

Just ask Osiris ;-)

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post #8 of 45 Old 08-04-2015, 09:54 PM
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I'm running PR4 front and rear, and they've been really, really good for me in the rain.

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post #9 of 45 Old 08-04-2015, 09:59 PM Thread Starter
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I'm running PR4 front and rear, and they've been really, really good for me in the rain.
I never wiped out, so I guess that is good. I haven't done any hard braking with it in the wet.

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post #10 of 45 Old 08-05-2015, 06:16 AM
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i've ridden them in pretty torrential downpours without an issue. that said, if i see metal, i'm standing the bike up a bit, rain or shine, i just don't trust it. Although expansion joints are there and gone so fast that as long as you don't do something ludicrous with the bars or your lean, the bike should recover. exit ramps in the rain - i'm hanging off like crazy.. ok, in the dry i am too.. but i find that hanging off in the rain can be pretty helpful, you can turn and still keep the bike fairly upright, so more contact patch and less "outward" force (fuck i'm an engineer i should know what to call that, not enough coffee yet, radial force? idk.) that might encourage the bike to slide out from under you.

your tire pressure might also be of interest. a really hard tire would be more prone to sliding i think. but proper inflation is probably critical to the sipes and stuff still working. Also sometimes those joints are a bit depressed from the road surface. you might be interpreting a slight lift as sliding due to the conditions.

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post #11 of 45 Old 08-07-2015, 08:25 AM
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I've run nothing but PR2s and PR3s on my 919 since the stock tires wore out and think the wet traction, front and rear, is outstanding. Except on metal. Like others have mentioned, metal sucks. Wet, dry, hot, or cold, I don't trust railroad tracks, manhole covers, expansion joints, etc. I do, however, trust the Pilot Road tires to go right back to gripping after they have cleared those things as long as I haven't boogered anything up and I was riding with respect to the elements.

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post #12 of 45 Old 08-16-2015, 11:01 AM Thread Starter
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Do any of you guys wash your bikes with car wash that has wax in it? I wonder if the tires are absorbing the soap. I always wash all the soap of the tires real good. Same for when I put a new tire on, I lube it up liberally so that it slides right on, but I always rinse the soap of really well.

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post #13 of 45 Old 08-16-2015, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by captainchadl View Post
Do any of you guys wash your bikes with car wash that has wax in it? I wonder if the tires are absorbing the soap. I always wash all the soap of the tires real good. Same for when I put a new tire on, I lube it up liberally so that it slides right on, but I always rinse the soap of really well.
No, because such car washes with wax:

1. Don't work well in the first place, even on cars.
2. Often leave residue on gauges that has to be removed.
3. Doesn't do a good job of removing the scunge that can build up on the engines of motorcycles.
4. The 'wax' can make controls and other surfaces slippery. Rinsing off may not adequately remove it after contact is made.
5. May *not* be safe to use on all the surfaces of your bike. Wax on brake rotors = bad idea.
6. May be toxic to pets and potentially *you*.


Use this to clean your motorcycle:

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post #14 of 45 Old 08-16-2015, 11:29 AM Thread Starter
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I didn't think it was toxic. I was using mother's California gold to wash painted surfaces. I would use dawn and hot water if the engine was real grimy. I will have to give the Total Cycle cleaner a shot. I hate having to clean my bike, but I also like my bike to be clean. I learned from past bikes, that once you let it go it gets harder and takes longer to clean.

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post #15 of 45 Old 08-16-2015, 11:33 AM
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I didn't think it was toxic. I was using mother's California gold to wash painted surfaces. I would use dawn and hot water if the engine was real grimy. I will have to give the Total Cycle cleaner a shot. I hate having to clean my bike, but I also like my bike to be clean. I learned from past bikes, that once you let it go it gets harder and takes longer to clean.

You might want to read the MSDS for that.

http://www.menards.com/msds/112908_001.pdf

"Ingestion may cause gastrointestinal irritation, nausea, vomiting and diarrhea."

So, yeah, the rinse water is at least somewhat toxic for that product and you know how pets and other critters love to drink runoff. S100 is non-toxic and biodegradable. It's also recommended by many cycle makers, including the one whose owners are absolutely paranoid about the appearance rather than the performance of their bikes, Harley.

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post #16 of 45 Old 08-16-2015, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
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Well., thanks. I like to be environmentally friendly. My own ignorance for not checking. I don't need the wax in the soap anyway. I use the Maguire's ultimate spray wax to protect it. I also spray it on my headlight and the bugs wash right off. Unless I shouldn't use that either? I try to put a past wax on my front fork sliders, because the salt air down here on the coast seems to eat away and pit the clear coat of the aluminum. I don't do it often enough because I am very cautious of the wax being used next to my brake disc.

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post #17 of 45 Old 08-18-2015, 06:04 PM Thread Starter
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I was looking at Michelin's web site and noticed that the Pilot road 3 has a softer compound than the pilot road 4. The center compound, which is harder, takes up 50% of the tire's surface. That night, that I felt the slight slippage, I was hardly leaning, so I was definitely riding on the harder middle compound. I think I may try the Pilot road 3 when I replace my rear tire, and do so for the front as well.

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post #18 of 45 Old 08-18-2015, 06:36 PM
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I think it's in your head. They're tough to slip other than on manhole covers and such.

Spoiler:

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post #19 of 45 Old 08-18-2015, 06:50 PM Thread Starter
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I think it's in your head. They're tough to slip other than on manhole covers and such.
Maybe, but only time will tell. I need more tires to compare it against.

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post #20 of 45 Old 08-18-2015, 07:10 PM Thread Starter
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The only thing that has got me concerned is, I have never felt the steering feel the way it did, on any other bike or tire that I have had before. The main selling point of this tire was that it was supposed to have more traction on slippery surfaces than other tires. At least that is how it was marketed. Like I said, I never felt the rear slip on the expansion joints, and it is a Metzeler Sportec M3.

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post #21 of 45 Old 08-18-2015, 07:39 PM
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I like the road rear but a power up front. I do find the road front a little slick for my liking. I do slide my rear a little while leaned way over in left turns especially. I know it's from too much throttle but it is fun! I don't think I've ever had the rear lose grip while straight up tho. I e wheelied in the rain a number of times. I like that it lasts almost a fun season.

Spoiler:

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post #22 of 45 Old 08-18-2015, 08:44 PM
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I do slide my rear a little while leaned way over
TWSS

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post #23 of 45 Old 08-18-2015, 08:46 PM
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TWSS
Good catch!

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post #24 of 45 Old 08-20-2015, 10:23 AM Thread Starter
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I may try the PR3s in a month or two. I may just need softer rubber, because I am not a heavy guy. I would gladly trade tire life for grip.

What is TWSS? Is it a inside joke that I am missing?

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post #25 of 45 Old 08-20-2015, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
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I may try the PR3s in a month or two. I may just need softer rubber, because I am not a heavy guy. I would gladly trade tire life for grip.

What is TWSS? Is it a inside joke that I am missing?
TWSS is from the sitcom "The Office". It stands for That's What She Said.

It seems a bit odd that the PR3 would be better than the PR4 for the rain. If a tire is designed for different use, it should be a different line of tire vs a different number in the same line. I wonder if the manufacture can confirm the assumption that the PR3 is better for rain than the PR4.

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post #26 of 45 Old 08-20-2015, 11:51 AM Thread Starter
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Well I was looking at the chart that Michelin has for the tires in comparison and the PR3 has a softer rubber in the middle than the pr4 (Assuming that I am reading it correctly). That is why the PR4 is supposed to last 20% longer than the PR3. Michelin doesn't compare the two tires, it just compared each tire against the competitor. I will try to find a link to it.

Oh yeah I watch the office, have every season. I just didn't know there was an acronym for it.

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post #27 of 45 Old 08-20-2015, 11:53 AM
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TWSS is from the sitcom "The Office". It stands for That's What She Said.

It seems a bit odd that the PR3 would be better than the PR4 for the rain. If a tire is designed for different use, it should be a different line of tire vs a different number in the same line. I wonder if the manufacture can confirm the assumption that the PR3 is better for rain than the PR4.
I can tell you that I've not noticed any difference between the pr3 and the pr4 when it comes to rain. I had a set of pr3's on for over a year and 14,000 miles and never had any slippage. I've had the pr4 on for just under 1000 and haven't had any slippage either. I live in Florida where it rains nearly every afternoon and about 350 of those miles were on the interstate while it was raining.

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post #28 of 45 Old 08-20-2015, 11:59 AM Thread Starter
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I can tell you that I've not noticed any difference between the pr3 and the pr4 when it comes to rain. I had a set of pr3's on for over a year and 14,000 miles and never had any slippage. I've had the pr4 on for just under 1000 and haven't had any slippage either. I live in Florida where it rains nearly every afternoon and about 350 of those miles were on the interstate while it was raining.
It may just be my weight and the way that I have the suspension set, that doesn't match up with the tire. I am only 140 pounds ( I have been bringing my weight back up, I am under weight). So, a softer tire my benefit me. I would have expected my rear tire to slip before my front tire. Granted I never laid the bike down, but I could feel the unsteadiness in the front. I have ridden in the wet a few times since then, but haven't felt it again, but I wasn't on the same route.

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post #29 of 45 Old 08-20-2015, 12:14 PM Thread Starter
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post #30 of 45 Old 08-20-2015, 12:42 PM Thread Starter
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I am chatting with a Michelin rep about the tire. The rubber between the two isn't any harder or softer, just that the PR4 resists wear better than the PR3.

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post #31 of 45 Old 08-20-2015, 12:59 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you for connecting with us in Consumer Care. My name is Tiesha, how can I be of assistance?

Tiesha: Thank you for connecting with us Chad.

Chad : Hello

Chad : I was wondering if the Pilot road 4 tire (front) has a harder compound than the Pilot road 3 (front). I have a Pilot Road 4 installed for the front tire of my 2007 Honda 919 (hornet) and One day after if had rained really hard for a good 2-3 hours I decided to make a break for home while the rain had subsided. While on an on ramp to the interstate, I was on a curve and on every expansion joint I very so lightly felt my front tire slip towards the outside of the turn. I wasn't going fast, so I wasn't having to lean my bike over hardly any or almost non at all. I have a Metzeler M3 on my rear and never felt it slip any. I was maybe thinking that I need to go down to the Pilot Road 3?

Chad : Also, I have never felt any tire that I have had before slip even the slightest on an expansion joint, even thought they are slippery by default.

Tiesha: Both of these tires have the 2ct technology. This is a 2 compound technology. In the middle they are resistant to wear and on the edges they are made to grip. The Pilot Road 4 is much harder than the Pilot Road 3 to resist wear. The Pilot Road 4 has a specific designed that optimizes the grip for leans and designed to last longer. We recommend taking your tire back to your local dealer and having the dealer contact us while you are there.

Chad : I had bought them from an online dealer and installed them myself.

Tiesha: You can go to any dealer that sells our Michelin products.

Chad : Well, what will the dealer have to do with it?

Tiesha: We just want to make sure that your tires are performing the way that they were designed to. The Pilot Road 4 lasts 20% longer than the Pilot Road 3 tires; however, the Pilot Road 3 performs much better in wet conditions.

Chad : So, I ultimatly want to feel and be safer in the rain, so it would be in my best interest to switch to a pilot road 3?

Chad : How will the dealer test the tire?

Tiesha: Each dealer is trained on how to inspect any issues with your tires. If the dealer feels your tire is no longer servicable please have them contact us while you are there.

Chad : Okay, does this dealer have to specialize in Motorcycle tires or can they sell just car tires?

Chad : Is it possible to have a bad tire from the factory?

Tiesha: We recommend any dealer that sells our motorcycle tires. Our tire standards are very high and each tire is individually checked several times before being sent to our consumers.

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post #32 of 45 Old 08-20-2015, 01:24 PM
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Congratulations, you got a bot. Well, a human in India emulating a bot by typing in scripts.

I think I'll stay with my Avons. Just ordered an Avon Storm 3D X-M.

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post #33 of 45 Old 08-20-2015, 01:28 PM Thread Starter
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Either way, Michelin appears to believe the PR3 does better in the wet than the Pr4. I am not satisfies with the PR4 as of right now. I may switch to the Pr3 and see if they suit me better.

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post #34 of 45 Old 08-20-2015, 01:31 PM
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That's really odd, considering that the 4 has a lot more siping and looks like it should do better in the wet. One wonders why they think that.

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post #35 of 45 Old 08-20-2015, 01:48 PM Thread Starter
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That's really odd, considering that the 4 has a lot more siping and looks like it should do better in the wet. One wonders why they think that.
Apparently the PR3 is the original equipment for the 2015 yamaha fz-07 (According to Michelin), but that may just be because the pr3 is cheaper than the PR4.

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post #36 of 45 Old 08-20-2015, 01:49 PM
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Go PR2's I love mine


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post #37 of 45 Old 08-20-2015, 01:50 PM Thread Starter
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That's really odd, considering that the 4 has a lot more siping and looks like it should do better in the wet. One wonders why they think that.
That is what I was thinking when I bought the PR4, that is was better than the PR3.

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post #38 of 45 Old 08-20-2015, 01:55 PM Thread Starter
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Go PR2's I love mine
I may have to keep working down the line until I find a tire that works for me.

Unless I got a fluke out the batch, but that is a scary thought. I know Metzeler had recalls on some of there tires before (the marathon 880 i believe). I have heard that Metzeler is a subsidy of Pirelli.

I doubt if I take it to any dealer. I don't like going to stealerships.

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post #39 of 45 Old 08-20-2015, 06:49 PM
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I may have to keep working down the line until I find a tire that works for me.

Unless I got a fluke out the batch, but that is a scary thought. I know Metzeler had recalls on some of there tires before (the marathon 880 i believe). I have heard that Metzeler is a subsidy of Pirelli.

I doubt if I take it to any dealer. I don't like going to stealerships.
They're not talking about a motorcycle dealership but *any* bike shop that sells Michelins. Stealership or not, that's who Michelin 'dealers' are.

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post #40 of 45 Old 08-20-2015, 07:14 PM Thread Starter
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I know what they are talking about, but the only bike shops around here are dealerships. The place that I was referred to is known for being crooks, and it isn't a dealership. The only places around here that I trust is Honda motorsports here in New Orleans or the Honda dealership way on the other side of the lake.

There is a Yamaha shop in New Orleans that burned my bridge many years ago.

Story Time- Back when I had my first street bike (not including dirt bike) I had a yamaha virago 250. I would go down to the local yamaha dealer in this area and get me a new oil filter. Every time I went, for 2 years, they had the oil filter in stock. Well, one day I went there and no oil filter, so I told the guy "man every time I came in her before ya'll had the filter in stock." Now this is the same guy that had handed me the filter before. He said "No we never carry that filter, that one we will have to order." I said in response "So you mean to tell me that ya'll have been giving me the wrong filter?" He replied, "Yes." At that point I turned around and left. Now this filter wasn't a spin on filter it, it was just a paper filter that I had to take the cover off the engine to remove.

I actually should have stopped dealing with them long before that when I went in for a replacement chain for the same bike. One day I went in for the new chain and told the guy what bike it was for. He did some searching on the computer and said, "We don't have that in stock. We will have to order it." I said, "you don't have that chain at all?" "No sir." I politely walked out and drive over to the Honda shop and told the guy I needed a chain, I told him the size and he told me that they had one, but it was too long, but he can get the mechanic to take out some links. I smiled and said "alright, now we are talking!" I didn't have time to wait for a chain to come in the mail, since the motorcycle was my only transportation.

Ever since then I stuck with Honda's, they are built really well. My dirt bike went under water in the hurricane and I drained about a gallon of stink water from the crank case. I drained the oil about 20 times after that before I stopped seeing water come out when I drained the oil. I started riding it after the 5th oil change. It is still riding strong till this day.

captainchadl is offline  
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