For fear of being unpopular...oil post - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 98 Old 06-28-2011, 07:55 AM Thread Starter
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For fear of being unpopular...oil post

For the longest time I have been a good boy and done all my oil changes with the prevailing leader of the oil pack, Rotella T 15w40. It worked fine in my SV650, still works fine in my RoadStar Warrior and also works fine in my CRF250X. In my 919 however, it just didn't like it. It felt like it ran real "tight", not wanting to rev, and wouldn't shift worth a darn after about 20 minutes of riding. I really debated if this was just how it was supposed to be, or of I had another issue. Being a former Honda bike shop employee and riding my fair share of Hondas over the years, I really felt like there was no way that a 2002 Honda bike would shift this inconsistently after all my other older Hondas shifted silky smooth, so I decided I wanted to try to figure it out.

Long story short, I threw out conventional wisdom and I changed out the Rotella after only 1,000 miles for some standard Pennzoil 10w40 that I use in my Jeep. All I can say is that within 10 miles, I could definitely tell that the engine had loosened up substantially and on two 35 minute commutes each way, the shifting is once again effortless and smooth. I no longer get stuck between gears. I've never seen an oil make a difference like this before. Moly be damned! I'm going to have the oil tested at the next oil change interval, but for now, I've decided the 919 is going to run conventional Pennzoil 10w40. I'll worry about any moly issues (if they even exist) after its tested. Heck, I remember when Honda even said you couldn't use full synthetic in a wet-clutch system which has been proven wrong many many times over.

Dont flame me. I'm just reporting what I have noticed. Trust me, its not my imagination. I'm actually really excited that the 919 runs now like I think it should. If you have shifting issues, don't be afraid to try a new oil.

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post #2 of 98 Old 06-28-2011, 08:14 AM
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Thanks for being the guinea pig. I hope it works out in the long run and your clutch holds up. I wonder if the smoother shifts are due to the clutch slipping a bit before it grabs. Maybe you are on to something.

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post #3 of 98 Old 06-28-2011, 08:15 AM
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Mobil 1 4t synthetic 10-40 ... ftw

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post #4 of 98 Old 06-28-2011, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferris Bueller View Post
Mobil 1 4t synthetic 10-40 ... ftw
+1
Had amsoil, switched to Mobil and found zero difference

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post #5 of 98 Old 06-28-2011, 08:27 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marylandmike View Post
Thanks for being the guinea pig. I hope it works out in the long run and your clutch holds up. I wonder if the smoother shifts are due to the clutch slipping a bit before it grabs. Maybe you are on to something.
I'll admit, I'm not the first guinea pig. I googled my shifting issues for quite a while and while I found nothing specific to Rotella, I did see a number of posts that told a similar story of being fixed or substantially reduced by using a standard convential motor oil with normal levels of moly. Obviously I know there are many more potential issues with shear and such with using a non-HD oil, but I'll have it tested and if it doesn't test the way I hope, I'll move on to something else. Pennzoil is a very high quality oil though, so I don't expect any issues.

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post #6 of 98 Old 06-28-2011, 08:42 AM
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Rotella is a very thick 40 weight, within a few tenths of a centistokes of being in the 50 weight category. When cold, it's a 15 weight, and Honda specs a 10 weight on the low end of the multi-grade rating. So, you may not be imagining the difference.

Molybdenum isn't the panacea that many people think it is...it is the total additive pack combined with the base oil balance that matters more. You are doing the right thing to have a UOA done, but, don't trust the clerk's summary, make sure someone familiar with the 919 "normal" values give the report a look-see. Of course, you'll need to do a series of UAO's in order to really get a good idea of your engine's response to the oil and conditions under which you operate it.

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post #7 of 98 Old 06-28-2011, 09:30 AM
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in honda's service manual you can run 15-40 no prob..


btw DO NOT use standard car oil in the 919... its wet clutch will not like the energy conserving additives!

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post #8 of 98 Old 06-28-2011, 09:52 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
in honda's service manual you can run 15-40 no prob..


btw DO NOT use standard car oil in the 919... its wet clutch will not like the energy conserving additives!
Not sure if this is what you are speaking of or not, but its 10w40 and not listed as energy conserving. In fact its energy wasting. I ordered it special.

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post #9 of 98 Old 06-28-2011, 10:54 AM
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If it says "Energy Conserving", don't use it in a bike.

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post #10 of 98 Old 06-28-2011, 11:08 AM
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good info in here, glad I dropped in to have a look

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post #11 of 98 Old 06-28-2011, 11:33 AM
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Just swapped over to Honda Gold HP4S 10w30 full Synth. So far it seems to be very good. However, after the long day of riding on Sunday it did go into a false neutral from fifth into sixth. Now this could have been me as I was kind of lazily shift up through the gears. However this is the first time it has ever happened to me. I gave it 10seconds pulled the clutch back and it and it went into sixth no problem.

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post #12 of 98 Old 06-28-2011, 11:38 AM
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I've ran repsol 4t synthetic, amsoil synthetic, and mobil 1 4t synthetic. I've also used honda filters, k&n filters, and mobil 1 filters.

I will say again, mobil 1 ftw!

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post #13 of 98 Old 06-28-2011, 12:23 PM
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Mobil 1 4t synthetic 10-40
That's the only thing I've run in mine so I really have nothing to compare it to.

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post #14 of 98 Old 06-28-2011, 12:24 PM
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Rotella T6 5W40 is the superior selection of the JASO labelled Rotellas.
Rotella Triple Protection is a step down from T6, but it is still a JASO labelled oil and is available in 15W40.

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post #15 of 98 Old 06-28-2011, 03:46 PM
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mobil act/evo syn blend 10/40

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post #16 of 98 Old 06-28-2011, 04:01 PM
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I did a change before a full-day's ride on Saturday. Tried out Mobil 1 Delvac 15w-40 with the Mobil 1 M-110 filter. Not a single slip, false neutral, etc during the whole trip. Normally I use Rotella Triple-P or T6 in the winter, just wanted to try something different.

Only time and miles will tell how the Delvac holds up. I usually change the Rotella at 2500 for the Triple and 3000 for the T6.

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post #17 of 98 Old 06-28-2011, 05:37 PM
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honda g4 oil. works great everytime on all my bikes and my fathers bikes

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post #18 of 98 Old 06-28-2011, 05:42 PM
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I have nothing to add other than I grew up in Henderson, Ky. Right across the river from Evansville.

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post #19 of 98 Old 06-28-2011, 06:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I have nothing to add other than I grew up in Henderson, Ky. Right across the river from Evansville.
Awesome! I work in Hendo. Really good people there.

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post #20 of 98 Old 06-29-2011, 01:24 AM
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I have found the 919 transmission is a bit fussy on the oil it runs in. Best I've used are (all 10w40 motorcycle specific oils) Motul 5100 (semi synth) and presently a hellishly expensive (in New Zealand) full synthetic Spectro which is the best I've experienced yet. It did not like the semi-synth Castrol.

I may try full synth Mobil next time for a comparison.

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post #21 of 98 Old 07-06-2011, 02:16 PM
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Rotella oil

Hello.
I've been running 2 diesel Dodges for a few years, and I thought Rotella 15-40 was a diesel oil? I use Valvoline Premium Blue 15-40 in the Cummins, but have used Rotella when I didn't have access to the Valvoline.

I just got my 919 in May and am coming up to the first oil change. Am I misunderstanding or can I use Mobil 10w40 NON energy conserving oil in it, or should I buy the standard Honda oil? Am I opening up a can of worms here?
Thanks
jeff

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post #22 of 98 Old 07-06-2011, 02:31 PM
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use the rotella oil. t6 if you can. works great.

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post #23 of 98 Old 07-06-2011, 02:48 PM
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use the rotella oil. t6 if you can. works great.
+1, running T6 right now. I've had no issues.

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post #24 of 98 Old 07-06-2011, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
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I thought Rotella 15-40 was a diesel oil? jeff
Jeff, it's a common misconception. HDEO actually stands for "Heavy DUTY Engine Oil", not "Diesel". The fact that it meets specifications for many diesel applications further leads one to mistakenly consider it a "diesel" oil. It's not JUST an oil for most diesels. Also, there are many diesels for which Rotella does NOT meet the specifications.

Many of us have used Rotella for over a decade, BEFORE it came out with it's relatively new JASO MA specification. It's a very good oil for most motorcycles (even wet-clutch bikes), especially for it's price. I was sure of this as a fact for MANY years prior to the JASO MA spec, because I did serial UOA's, and watched many others doing the same thing with this oil on many different bikes.

As for those that say: I've been running "X" oil for thousands of miles, and it's doing just great....I ask, "how do you know"? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Without Used Oil Analysis by someone experienced with your particular engine, it's just a guess. THIS is why oil threads get so pointless...no science to back up MOST of the claims.

Instead, most people just rely upon ancedotal evidence, and, sometimes not a lot of it. I had a Honda Shadow that I ran Rotella in since the 1980's, and my nephew still owns the bike. He has over 85,000 miles on it now, with no engine work. Does this mean Rotella is doing great? Or, is it doing better than some other oil choice? No. Maybe almost any engine oil used in this bike's lifetime would have the bike seemingly running just as good at this point. The point is: one bike's apparent history doesn't mean an oil is good, better, or best. I can only say it was good enough in this bike, ridden in the conditions it was ridden in, to get it to at least 85,000 miles.

The fact is, Rotella 15w-40 is a decent Group II Base stock with an additive package that does well enough to meet JASO MA specs. It's ALMOST a 50 weight oil, missing that categorization by only a couple of tenths of a centistoke...so, it tends to hold it's grade a bit better than many other 40 weight oils, since it starts out so thick. Holding grade is very important in combination engine/transmission setups, as the transmission TENDS to require thicker oil than the engine section, unless some valve-train work has been done that may require either a thicker oil or a specialized additive pack. It's hard to beat it's value, as long as it's changed out prior to shearing out of grade....but, that's true of any oil...some hold grade much better than others.

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post #25 of 98 Old 07-06-2011, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackheart View Post
...
...
...
As for those that say: I've been running "X" oil for thousands of miles, and it's doing just great....I ask, "how do you know"? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Without Used Oil Analysis by someone experienced with your particular engine, it's just a guess. ...
...
Worth repeating.


Personally, I use the Amsoil 10w-40 MC oil. It's probably the same group-IV base stock as Mobil full synthetic, with a good additive package for the particular application.

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post #26 of 98 Old 07-07-2011, 06:54 AM
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Thanks for the Info! I guess I'll be using Rotella or Mobil 1. Thanks again,
jeff

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post #27 of 98 Old 07-07-2011, 07:00 AM
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Oil types

I would try amsoil but every opportunity I've had I wasn't able to either find it or it was more expensive than the others. Not sure what current conditions are--I'm talking about 4 or 5 years ago with my Dodges.
jeff

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post #28 of 98 Old 07-07-2011, 12:09 PM
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I'M goin' with what Blackheart says. And Rotella is sold at good old walmart. (Where I went on my honeymoon)

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post #29 of 98 Old 07-07-2011, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
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+1, running T6 right now. I've had no issues.

+2 been running it for 10k miles with zero issues




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post #30 of 98 Old 07-08-2011, 07:40 AM
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On my 919, shifting gets stiff after several miles of back road riding with lots of shifting involved. I was running Mobil 1 4t for a few years and when fresh, stiff shifting would be minimized.
Last year, I switched to Royal Purple (motorcycle oil) and have been pleased with the results.

I plan to die young, as late as possible.
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post #31 of 98 Old 07-13-2011, 11:07 AM
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ANECDOTE !

Been using spectro nat since the first oil change. Been fine. Just tried the Mobil 1 4T. The trans seems to shift crisper. I like it.

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post #32 of 98 Old 07-13-2011, 03:17 PM
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Strange. I ran Rotella Triple Protection last year without any problems. I switched to T6 last change a few months ago and I am finding that the shifting is getting much stiffer.

I am only 3,500km (2,100 miles) in. I guess I might have to change before my normal 5,000km (approx 3,000 miles) interval. I am going to try something different for comparison.

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post #33 of 98 Old 07-15-2011, 11:27 AM
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An oil thread with no name calling or shots fired over the bow? no duel challenges?

This is a different kind of MC forum than I'm used to.

You've all talked about what kind of oil you're running, I'm interested to know what interval you're changing it out. Are you changing the filter every oil change as well? and what filter are you running?

So far I have used the Honda HP4 oil with the Honda oil filters and I change the oil and filter at the recommended 8,000 mile interval.

Also I would like some more information on this Used Oil Analysis, cost, who does it, etc. sounds interesting and worthwhile.

I'll get you fighting yet......

The places my 919 has taken me:
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post #34 of 98 Old 07-15-2011, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange View Post
So far I have used the Honda HP4 oil with the Honda oil filters and I change the oil and filter at the recommended 8,000 mile interval.

Also I would like some more information on this Used Oil Analysis, cost, who does it, etc. sounds interesting and worthwhile.
A good quality oil filter at 8000 miles, or, once a year, whichever comes first, should give very good results with this engine.

Blackstone is one of the more common Labs...only problem with them is: The clerk's "analysis" is often laughable. You still need someone familiar with your bike, or, at least is experienced with wet-clutch systems and preferably a Tribologist, to do the actual analysis. Terry Dyson is one such person.

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post #35 of 98 Old 07-15-2011, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange View Post
An oil thread with no name calling or shots fired over the bow? no duel challenges?

This is a different kind of MC forum than I'm used to.

You've all talked about what kind of oil you're running, I'm interested to know what interval you're changing it out. Are you changing the filter every oil change as well? and what filter are you running?

So far I have used the Honda HP4 oil with the Honda oil filters and I change the oil and filter at the recommended 8,000 mile interval.

Also I would like some more information on this Used Oil Analysis, cost, who does it, etc. sounds interesting and worthwhile.

I'll get you fighting yet......
With your screen name, I had you pegged for a FRAM man.

Rotella and a ST7317 SuperTech Wally World Filter, 2-3K miles, change the filter every time.

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post #36 of 98 Old 07-15-2011, 11:39 AM
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my oc's have been relatively random. I dirive otr for a living so sometimes the bike sits. then I hammer it when i get home.

Like I said, spectro oil, with honda filters. I have a fram on it now. No analysis have been performed.

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post #37 of 98 Old 07-15-2011, 12:26 PM
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Motorcycles and Motorcycle Lubrication - Bob Is The Oil Guy

All you ever wanted to know about oil and filters. He says Frams are NG.
I use an oversized Bosch.

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post #38 of 98 Old 07-15-2011, 01:37 PM
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FYI...

Rotella up to 26.95/gal at Pepboys. 21.95 at Wally World; still a great deal, IMO, on my third oil change on the 9er, using Pure one filter, seems to be a great combo, and the filter looks classy as a bonus.

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post #39 of 98 Old 07-15-2011, 02:39 PM Thread Starter
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Why argue,...

I'd really repeat Blackhearts well said statements,...they are all good enough as long as you have realistic expectations. I think we are truly past the days where oil composition alone will cause major engine problems.

I'd consider using any oil as long as the parent companies don't put millions of gallons of crap in my oceans or streams,...or kill baby seals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange View Post
An oil thread with no name calling or shots fired over the bow? no duel challenges?

This is a different kind of MC forum than I'm used to.

You've all talked about what kind of oil you're running, I'm interested to know what interval you're changing it out. Are you changing the filter every oil change as well? and what filter are you running?

So far I have used the Honda HP4 oil with the Honda oil filters and I change the oil and filter at the recommended 8,000 mile interval.

Also I would like some more information on this Used Oil Analysis, cost, who does it, etc. sounds interesting and worthwhile.

I'll get you fighting yet......

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post #40 of 98 Old 07-16-2011, 05:30 AM
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