Finally got a PC III - what next? - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 105 Old 02-04-2019, 02:52 AM Thread Starter
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Finally got a PC III - what next?

AFter much pondering and some welcome advice from a Tasmanian 919er on this very forum I found a PC III for a decent price from a brilliant old chap in Queensland...still riding strong and loving his bikes and projects on two wheels.

I have peeked at the instruction for installing the PC III and they are a tad more tricky than the PC V I installed on my earlier FZ1. That was simply the two large black connectors and one to the battery.

This is what I have >
https://ibb.co/wQNYmfq

And the instructions here>>
http://www.powercommander.com/downlo...eng112-411.pdf

The large black bits seem simple, and the metal loop goes to the battery.

I am a little lost when it comes to the red sockets forking off the other wire of the ECU? Can anyone kindly guide me in regards to the manual!

ANy advice is greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Daniel

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post #2 of 105 Old 02-05-2019, 10:23 AM
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Lift your seat off, and get started.

You aren't going to do anything bad by trying to fit it yourself, as long as you leave the wirecutters in the tool box, and you will figure some things out along the way.

The instructions say to skip over steps 9 & 10, which involve the red connectors you are concerned about, if you have a Euro-spec bike, and I think that's the case for the bikes we got in Aus/NZ. So all you might need to do, other than plugging it together, is finding the appropriate wire to tap into in steps 7 & 8. Repco or Supercheap can help you out with a plastic crimping wiretap, if you haven't used one before.

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post #3 of 105 Old 02-05-2019, 11:52 AM
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I'm debating between the PC III and a PC V (for a CBR1000RR). My dyno tuner says he'll be able to do a lot more with the V.

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post #4 of 105 Old 02-05-2019, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K1w1Boy View Post
Lift your seat off, and get started.

You aren't going to do anything bad by trying to fit it yourself, as long as you leave the wirecutters in the tool box, and you will figure some things out along the way.

The instructions say to skip over steps 9 & 10, which involve the red connectors you are concerned about, if you have a Euro-spec bike, and I think that's the case for the bikes we got in Aus/NZ. So all you might need to do, other than plugging it together, is finding the appropriate wire to tap into in steps 7 & 8. Repco or Supercheap can help you out with a plastic crimping wiretap, if you haven't used one before.
I'm pretty sure our Aussie bikes are some Asian-spec model. I carried out steps 9 and 10. Two red connectors into the bikes opaque OEM connectors and all that. Power commander works like it should.
And yes to steps 7 and 8. The positap connector. Use a bit of that electrical grease as well.
I removed the seat and rear cowl. Then I partially dropped the undertray to get to the ECU. Good time to clean it all too.

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post #5 of 105 Old 02-18-2019, 01:18 AM Thread Starter
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https://ibb.co/QvM1GLS

Here is what I have now now the damn thing has finally arrived after AUS Post sent it to Melbourne, then Perth, then back again, from Queensland originally. The fiends.

I am planning on having a go this weekend. Assume I need to buy a crimper? Bunnings have them cheap I believe!

https://www.bunnings.com.au/supatool...inals_p6010367

This is the tool?

Will take the PC with me to check for crimp sizes?

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post #6 of 105 Old 02-18-2019, 02:19 AM
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Forget that tool. What you need is a male wire tap, red. Like this one... Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/111122337772
What you have in your hand is the female socket/half of that particular electrical fitting. It allows you to tap into another insulated wire. Which is what you have to do on the power commander install.
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post #7 of 105 Old 02-18-2019, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
Forget that tool. What you need is a male wire tap, red. Like this one... Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/111122337772
What you have in your hand is the female socket/half of that particular electrical fitting. It allows you to tap into another insulated wire. Which is what you have to do on the power commander install.
If that crimper he's looking at comes with actual splices then it would be much preferred over the wire tap... Those should be avoided as often as possible and about the only thing worse I've seen people use on motorcycle wiring are wire nuts.

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post #8 of 105 Old 02-18-2019, 09:53 AM
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The crimper doesn't come with anything, you just get the tool by itself when you buy it.

Can you post a link to a sample of the "actual splices" you mention, if those are what should be used? That's not a common term in Australasia.

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post #9 of 105 Old 02-18-2019, 11:46 AM
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Badmoon I agree with you. Personally I would never used a wire tap. They have been known to fail in a few ways, bad intermittent connection or even cut right through.
I spliced and soldered mine.
I think for someone with limited mechanical skills the wire tap might be the best choice. It's also what dynajet suggests. Besides he has the female connector there already.
Gutterpoet the problem is that the wire you have to tap into is quite small in diameter. You also don't have much length to work along. On a ten year old bike that wire may also be a little hard/stiff. Using a wire tap is fraught with hazards but so is splicing and soldering.
I'm sure he would appreciate all options.
Are there other options?

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post #10 of 105 Old 02-18-2019, 11:47 AM
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Oh yeah what's a wire nut?

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post #11 of 105 Old 02-18-2019, 03:03 PM
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post #12 of 105 Old 02-18-2019, 03:47 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks folks! I will probably go first with Islandboy's suggestion...had no trouble installing the PC V on my earlier FZ 1, but this PC III install is certainly more tricky. The instructions seem quite clear however, just a matter of working out if all wires should connect somewhere and then how to connect them to each other.

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post #13 of 105 Old 02-18-2019, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
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I did a "Save Page As" of this one!
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post #14 of 105 Old 02-19-2019, 01:49 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
Forget that tool. What you need is a male wire tap, red. Like this one... Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/111122337772
What you have in your hand is the female socket/half of that particular electrical fitting. It allows you to tap into another insulated wire. Which is what you have to do on the power commander install.
So I need to pull out a wire plugged into the cluster, that is connected elsewhere?

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post #15 of 105 Old 02-19-2019, 02:42 AM
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Well you have to tap into a wire that's all. It's part of the wiring loom that's goes into the grey ECU connector. You don't pull anything out or cut wires. Just expose the loom then find your wire.
It's step 7 in the installation instructions.

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post #16 of 105 Old 02-19-2019, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K1w1Boy View Post
The crimper doesn't come with anything, you just get the tool by itself when you buy it.

Can you post a link to a sample of the "actual splices" you mention, if those are what should be used? That's not a common term in Australasia.
There's a picture of what I'm talking about at the top of this thread: https://classicmotorsports.com/forum...g/97979/page1/

That's what's used on production marine engine harnesses with heat shrink applied over the top of it. Admittedly I never encountered them before I started working on wiring harnesses and don't know if there's a better name for them. But they're one of the best ways to join two wires together tied with probably a good loop and soldering.
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post #17 of 105 Old 02-19-2019, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
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Oh yeah what's a wire nut?
This is a wire nut. Commonly used in house wiring (at least over here) or really in many different stationary AC applications... Really not a good idea for something that will encounter vibration and moisture.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg wire nut.jpg (6.2 KB, 68 views)
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post #18 of 105 Old 02-19-2019, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
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This is a wire nut. Commonly used in house wiring (at least over here) or really in many different stationary AC applications... Really not a good idea for something that will encounter vibration and moisture.
And make sure to set your TPS

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post #19 of 105 Old 02-22-2019, 06:58 AM
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The way bike and car manufacturers split wires is with copper connectors like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Harness-Termi.../dp/B07KVNBKBD

I used to solder my connections but not anymore. It's super fast, reliable and remains flexible. If it's reliable for the OEM harness I have no fear of doing this.
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post #20 of 105 Old 02-24-2019, 01:09 PM Thread Starter
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Got the parts off fine and dandy, and could access the black large socket but the white one was under part of the frame and no chance I am digging into there with so many wires at play. The job is a lot more complicated than I thought. Will organize for the mechanic to get the thing done, safer. No room for my low dexterity to work where the white plug is, can barely get my little finger down there, and I am not that comfortable with the wire splicing either. Best to leave to someone more capable I have quickly concluded.

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post #21 of 105 Old 02-24-2019, 06:08 PM
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I made room by dropping the black undertail tray that the ECU sits in. The rest of the loom is packed into the rear frame cavity. It comes out OK if your gentle. It's well packed in there.
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post #22 of 105 Old 03-05-2019, 01:50 PM Thread Starter
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I am having a new grease merchant I plan on trying near the City install the PC next week. Now just wondering which map would be for the best?

My set-up is stock other than Hiflo air filter and Danmoto end cans (with no baffles I believe).

I will find the dropbox link on here...though still hope to get some advice on the best map fit for my setup.

The mechanic did suggest doing a base tune, and I will get a quote for this, but for now I am just planning on keeping costs down and trying toe established maps.

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post #23 of 105 Old 03-05-2019, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegutterpoet View Post
I am having a new grease merchant I plan on trying near the City install the PC next week. Now just wondering which map would be for the best?

My set-up is stock other than Hiflo air filter and Danmoto end cans (with no baffles I believe).

I will find the dropbox link on here...though still hope to get some advice on the best map fit for my setup.

The mechanic did suggest doing a base tune, and I will get a quote for this, but for now I am just planning on keeping costs down and trying toe established maps.
I'd suggest starting with the MoriV4 map.
More precisely, the mw919mori4 map.
As in mw=LDH and his final iteration of his map work based on the Moriwaki cans he had on the bike at that time.
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post #24 of 105 Old 03-06-2019, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegutterpoet View Post
I am having a new grease merchant I plan on trying near the City install the PC next week. Now just wondering which map would be for the best?

My set-up is stock other than Hiflo air filter and Danmoto end cans (with no baffles I believe).

I will find the dropbox link on here...though still hope to get some advice on the best map fit for my setup.

The mechanic did suggest doing a base tune, and I will get a quote for this, but for now I am just planning on keeping costs down and trying toe established maps.
Post #17: Instructions for calibrating the throttle and setting the accelerator pump:

https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums...s/80405?page=2
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post #25 of 105 Old 03-06-2019, 03:28 PM
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This is who did my map for my 919, for $75.

It was a great map, great guy too.

http://jeffomaps.com/efi-tuning-services

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post #26 of 105 Old 03-06-2019, 11:27 PM Thread Starter
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This is who did my map for my 919, for $75.

It was a great map, great guy too.

JeffoMaps.com | Official Site - EFI/Tuning Services
Thanks for the link in the earlier post and this suggestion...I think I will steer clear of a 'custom' map. Assuming that most maps available via the drop box linked to on here will pretty much do as good a job as someone making a map who has never touched ridden or heard my bike!

I did have the custom map which came with Ivan's ECU flash on my earlier FZ1. Different story all round though and had spent a huge amount of time on that flash and on that bike.

I imagine that gains in performance, fuelling, power and rideability with the PC on a 919 are much smaller.

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post #27 of 105 Old 03-07-2019, 11:31 AM
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Thanks for the link in the earlier post and this suggestion...I think I will steer clear of a 'custom' map. Assuming that most maps available via the drop box linked to on here will pretty much do as good a job as someone making a map who has never touched ridden or heard my bike!

I did have the custom map which came with Ivan's ECU flash on my earlier FZ1. Different story all round though and had spent a huge amount of time on that flash and on that bike.

I imagine that gains in performance, fuelling, power and rideability with the PC on a 919 are much smaller.
The improvement in Rideability can be huge.
I say "can" as compared to "will", on the basis of respecting the posted experiences of some others where they felt they got no improvement.
Meanwhile, my 919 was transformed by it in terms of rideability.
Specifically low gear low revs in creepy crawly and stop and go traffic.
It went from being like a bucking bronco that needed clutch work to duck it, to being able to walk it by throttle alone down to well below 1000 RPM and with rheostat like characteristic speed up the walk and then to rolling.
The infamous "stink" was reduced, but it did not at all come close to getting rid of it.
As added insight, the sound at idle changed, to the degree that even my wife noticed it without any kind of prompting.
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post #28 of 105 Old 03-08-2019, 12:43 AM
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The improvement in Rideability can be huge.
my 919 was transformed by it in terms of rideability.
Specifically low gear low revs in creepy crawly and stop and go traffic.
It went from being like a bucking bronco that needed clutch work to duck it, to being able to walk it by throttle alone down to well below 1000 RPM and with rheostat like characteristic speed up the walk and then to rolling.
Same experience for me

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post #29 of 105 Old 03-08-2019, 01:47 AM Thread Starter
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The improvement in Rideability can be huge.
I say "can" as compared to "will", on the basis of respecting the posted experiences of some others where they felt they got no improvement.
Meanwhile, my 919 was transformed by it in terms of rideability.
Specifically low gear low revs in creepy crawly and stop and go traffic.
It went from being like a bucking bronco that needed clutch work to duck it, to being able to walk it by throttle alone down to well below 1000 RPM and with rheostat like characteristic speed up the walk and then to rolling.
The infamous "stink" was reduced, but it did not at all come close to getting rid of it.
As added insight, the sound at idle changed, to the degree that even my wife noticed it without any kind of prompting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by K1w1Boy View Post
Same experience for me
So you expect me to feel a clear difference with the PC III and the maps suggested?

I am running stock mainly, Hiflo filter and Danomoto cans which have no baffles.

That would be splendid. Though I know I must set the TPS properly.

For now, I will steer clear of the custom mapping from the mechanic, who is also a tuner. See how the maps are after the thing is installed. Will aim to take the bike for a proper weekend riding next weekend perhaps, and try a few maps.

I guess I revert to what I have said about bikes in general...I have never really got that much into setting them up to suit me, instead just got used to getting the most out of the bike from adjusting to ride the thing. Learning on a XT250 with no brakes in the english countryside, then a clapped out Honda H100, then TZR125, then Cb1-400, Cbr600F, R6, R6...wasnt until the FZ1 when I made any adjustments or mods whatsoever. And those were very significant in the changes they produced.

With the 919...I have come to love the thing, but assumed without spending big money that I do not have, I would not be able to change the ride significantly.

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post #30 of 105 Old 03-14-2019, 10:55 PM Thread Starter
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I'd suggest starting with the MoriV4 map.
More precisely, the mw919mori4 map.
As in mw=LDH and his final iteration of his map work based on the Moriwaki cans he had on the bike at that time.
FOUND IT!...I will add it to the PC before putting the beast to bed for the night.

I am a little confused in regards to knowing what is best for my setup. And is there a bigger collection of maps in another drop box?

Any assistance is welcome.

Im running the 919_pvsato to begin with.

What I found also, was after picking the bike up from the mechanic, and it had the last map loaded from the previous PC owner, the bike was lurching horridly around 2-3krpm. It died off after 5-10 mins.

When I sent the pvsatp map, I found the same issue, in the first 5-10 mins of riding perhaps, of lurching, like the bike was grasping for fuel. Is this normal for the bike changing to the new map? Or a sign that the maps arent right for my bike. It does go away.

Also...would the last map be saved somewhere. I opened the pvsato map and send it before thinking it might be useful to save first the one that it came with.

Guide me please!

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post #31 of 105 Old 03-15-2019, 02:49 AM Thread Starter
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APologies for the above. A bit garbled. Troubling times and too much codeine and back ache to deliver myself with the required clarity.

Essentially, I tried the mori4 map briefly. And it didn't produce the same initial reaching for fuel that the other two had done. I had also adjusted the TPS. Not sure if the right method, I will check back, probably in this very thread, to find the details provided by another member. I simply pressed reset, then held the throttle fully open, then hit okay and let it go. Seemed to do the trick as before this the range with the throttle only went 1-99. Now 0-100.

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post #32 of 105 Old 03-15-2019, 05:51 PM
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APologies for the above. A bit garbled. Troubling times and too much codeine and back ache to deliver myself with the required clarity.

Essentially, I tried the mori4 map briefly. And it didn't produce the same initial reaching for fuel that the other two had done. I had also adjusted the TPS. Not sure if the right method, I will check back, probably in this very thread, to find the details provided by another member. I simply pressed reset, then held the throttle fully open, then hit okay and let it go. Seemed to do the trick as before this the range with the throttle only went 1-99. Now 0-100.
Suggest you again check your idle TP indicated opening with some extra cable slack put in just for the check.
Make sure it still reads 0.

Also hope you are feeling better.

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post #33 of 105 Old 03-16-2019, 01:53 AM Thread Starter
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Suggest you again check your idle TP indicated opening with some extra cable slack put in just for the check.
Make sure it still reads 0.

Also hope you are feeling better.
Followed your instructions from the dropbox, mate and set the TPS properly with closed then open. And off I went for a decent ride to my hideaway here on the coast. The mori4 map seems smooth. Hard to say how different it is, as its been a long time, too long really, since I did more than my normal home to work to beach to shops to home routine. Yet I did get the sensation that the bike was moving more easily, or certainly more smoothly.

Will add more after the trip home tomorrow.

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post #34 of 105 Old 03-16-2019, 07:39 AM
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Followed your instructions from the dropbox, mate and set the TPS properly with closed then open. And off I went for a decent ride to my hideaway here on the coast. The mori4 map seems smooth. Hard to say how different it is, as its been a long time, too long really, since I did more than my normal home to work to beach to shops to home routine. Yet I did get the sensation that the bike was moving more easily, or certainly more smoothly.

Will add more after the trip home tomorrow.
More smoothly in every circumstance is exactly what you should be experiencing.
You might also detect a change in the exhaust sound at idle. (helmet off listening)
You might also detect a reduction in the exhaust gas stink, should yours be a stinker.

Enjoy the riding!

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post #35 of 105 Old 03-16-2019, 11:58 PM Thread Starter
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Sp, after my great ride yesterday I was ever so eager to get back on this morning for the ride home, but...that same horrid lurching between 2-3k rpm was apparent from the off, in many gears, not just one. The bike was obviously cold, and I could still ride it, but had to just try charge through that range. i rode for 15-20 minutes then was on the beach for an hour or so. It was then absolutely fine for the whole trip back which was around 120km. Cruising happily in top gear at 4k rpm 100km/h which I assume is normal?

It seems that this issue is there whenever the bike is started cold.

Could this be that I have not set the TPS correctly?
I may have been too swift in turning the yellows screw to adjust the idle rpm and aiming for near 12000 on the PC utility rather than focusing the needle on the actual bike?


If wiring issue then why would the thing be absolutely fine once warmed up?

No doubt I will find the same issue in the morning when I head to work, and wont have chance to make any adjustments to the TPS until tomorrow when home.

Kindly advise!

Cheers,
DDD

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post #36 of 105 Old 03-17-2019, 12:12 AM
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Try adding or removing fuel from the fuel map in the zone you are concerned with. See what this reveals. Use either crudely the buttons on the unit or more specifically with the PC111 program on your laptop.

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post #37 of 105 Old 03-17-2019, 12:41 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
Try adding or removing fuel from the fuel map in the zone you are concerned with. See what this reveals. Use either crudely the buttons on the unit or more specifically with the PC111 program on your laptop.
probably why the other map the sato one also gave the same issue. Its always between 2-3k rpm. Yet is not at all apparent when the bike is warmed up.

Definitely would say the bike is lean in those periods - it lurches and feels like its suffering fuel starvation.

If I change the figures, how much should I change them? And will that not make that area of the rpm range too rich when the bike is warmed up and the issue has gone?

Edit - I just changed all the values between 2-3k rpm all negative values I set to 0 or 1.

Will report back in the morning. Also redid the TPS sync, as the bike is still warm from the long ride today. Idle was on the tacho around 1200rpm.

Thanks for the help as always mate!

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post #38 of 105 Old 03-17-2019, 10:12 AM
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Pasted from another thread in case anyone here can help:

I'm having a lot of trouble with a Kerker 900RR header and Yosh tri-oval pipe. I've tried the 900RR header maps but getting a very significant power cutout in 6th in the 3750, 4000 and 4250rpm range. Not really surging but enough power cutout to jerk your head forward, very annoying, I never had this problem with my Delk 900RR header

In these ranges, at 2,5 and 10% throttle I've slowly added fuel in 2% increments from around -3 all the way up to +8 and it's not really helping. Considering abandoning the whole system. Ideas?

2007 919
2003 CBR1100XX
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post #39 of 105 Old 03-17-2019, 02:29 PM Thread Starter
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Well, the changes I made (manually by altering the values via the utility) to the mori4 map between 2-3000 rpm changing the - to 0 or 1 resulted in none of the lugging/lurching from a cold start today in that range. Maybe I added too much, so can taper it down, just perhaps halving the original values in that range or try another map which is not so lean.

It seems that adding fuel to this range solved the issue. Still cannot understand why it would be there when cold starting for 10-15 mins then vanish if I stopped the bike then restarted?

I also did the TPS once again last night, this time focusing on the rpm on the dial sticking around 1200 rather than looking at the numbers on the PC utility. Though not sure if the TPS been slightly out could have been responsible for the lugging/lurching.

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post #40 of 105 Old 03-17-2019, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegutterpoet View Post
Well, the changes I made (manually by altering the values via the utility) to the mori4 map between 2-3000 rpm changing the - to 0 or 1 resulted in none of the lugging/lurching from a cold start today in that range. Maybe I added too much, so can taper it down, just perhaps halving the original values in that range or try another map which is not so lean.

It seems that adding fuel to this range solved the issue. Still cannot understand why it would be there when cold starting for 10-15 mins then vanish if I stopped the bike then restarted?

I also did the TPS once again last night, this time focusing on the rpm on the dial sticking around 1200 rather than looking at the numbers on the PC utility. Though not sure if the TPS been slightly out could have been responsible for the lugging/lurching.
The PC readout of the RPM is accurate, the tacho not necessarily so, but generally decent.
(They read high in the mid to upper revs,)
If it shows 0 % @ PC indicated 1200 RPM on a fully warmed up bike with no cold start lever effect and some very obvious throttle cable pull slack, then the stars should all be aligned.

What are you running for an air filter?
Stock?
Is your air box fully complete and stock aside from the flapper valve which is irrelevant in this case?

When you say cold start, how cold was the air temp?
(your definition of cold will surely be radically different than mine!

Have you had any vacuum lines off, or could any of them be aged and maybe there is a split somewhere?

Something sounds a wee bit odd about all this................

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