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Finally got a PC III - what next?

6K views 104 replies 10 participants last post by  Islandboy 
#1 ·
AFter much pondering and some welcome advice from a Tasmanian 919er on this very forum I found a PC III for a decent price from a brilliant old chap in Queensland...still riding strong and loving his bikes and projects on two wheels.

I have peeked at the instruction for installing the PC III and they are a tad more tricky than the PC V I installed on my earlier FZ1. That was simply the two large black connectors and one to the battery.

This is what I have >
https://ibb.co/wQNYmfq

And the instructions here>>
http://www.powercommander.com/downloads/112/install/411/eng112-411.pdf

The large black bits seem simple, and the metal loop goes to the battery.

I am a little lost when it comes to the red sockets forking off the other wire of the ECU? Can anyone kindly guide me in regards to the manual!

ANy advice is greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Daniel
 
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#2 ·
Lift your seat off, and get started.

You aren't going to do anything bad by trying to fit it yourself, as long as you leave the wirecutters in the tool box, and you will figure some things out along the way.

The instructions say to skip over steps 9 & 10, which involve the red connectors you are concerned about, if you have a Euro-spec bike, and I think that's the case for the bikes we got in Aus/NZ. So all you might need to do, other than plugging it together, is finding the appropriate wire to tap into in steps 7 & 8. Repco or Supercheap can help you out with a plastic crimping wiretap, if you haven't used one before.
 
#4 ·
I'm pretty sure our Aussie bikes are some Asian-spec model. I carried out steps 9 and 10. Two red connectors into the bikes opaque OEM connectors and all that. Power commander works like it should.
And yes to steps 7 and 8. The positap connector. Use a bit of that electrical grease as well.
I removed the seat and rear cowl. Then I partially dropped the undertray to get to the ECU. Good time to clean it all too.
 
#5 ·
https://ibb.co/QNtH44k
https://ibb.co/4S80MgV
https://ibb.co/QvM1GLS

Here is what I have now now the damn thing has finally arrived after AUS Post sent it to Melbourne, then Perth, then back again, from Queensland originally. The fiends.

I am planning on having a go this weekend. Assume I need to buy a crimper? Bunnings have them cheap I believe!

https://www.bunnings.com.au/supatool-30-piece-crimping-plier-set-with-terminals_p6010367

This is the tool?

Will take the PC with me to check for crimp sizes?
 
#7 ·
If that crimper he's looking at comes with actual splices then it would be much preferred over the wire tap... Those should be avoided as often as possible and about the only thing worse I've seen people use on motorcycle wiring are wire nuts.
 
#16 ·
There's a picture of what I'm talking about at the top of this thread: https://classicmotorsports.com/forum/grm/question-on-wire-splicing/97979/page1/

That's what's used on production marine engine harnesses with heat shrink applied over the top of it. Admittedly I never encountered them before I started working on wiring harnesses and don't know if there's a better name for them. But they're one of the best ways to join two wires together tied with probably a good loop and soldering.
 
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#9 ·
Badmoon I agree with you. Personally I would never used a wire tap. They have been known to fail in a few ways, bad intermittent connection or even cut right through.
I spliced and soldered mine.
I think for someone with limited mechanical skills the wire tap might be the best choice. It's also what dynajet suggests. Besides he has the female connector there already.
Gutterpoet the problem is that the wire you have to tap into is quite small in diameter. You also don't have much length to work along. On a ten year old bike that wire may also be a little hard/stiff. Using a wire tap is fraught with hazards but so is splicing and soldering.
I'm sure he would appreciate all options.
Are there other options?
 
#17 ·
This is a wire nut. Commonly used in house wiring (at least over here) or really in many different stationary AC applications... Really not a good idea for something that will encounter vibration and moisture.
 

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#12 ·
Thanks folks! I will probably go first with Islandboy's suggestion...had no trouble installing the PC V on my earlier FZ 1, but this PC III install is certainly more tricky. The instructions seem quite clear however, just a matter of working out if all wires should connect somewhere and then how to connect them to each other.
 
#20 ·
Got the parts off fine and dandy, and could access the black large socket but the white one was under part of the frame and no chance I am digging into there with so many wires at play. The job is a lot more complicated than I thought. Will organize for the mechanic to get the thing done, safer. No room for my low dexterity to work where the white plug is, can barely get my little finger down there, and I am not that comfortable with the wire splicing either. Best to leave to someone more capable I have quickly concluded.
 
#22 ·
I am having a new grease merchant I plan on trying near the City install the PC next week. Now just wondering which map would be for the best?

My set-up is stock other than Hiflo air filter and Danmoto end cans (with no baffles I believe).

I will find the dropbox link on here...though still hope to get some advice on the best map fit for my setup.

The mechanic did suggest doing a base tune, and I will get a quote for this, but for now I am just planning on keeping costs down and trying toe established maps.
 
#26 ·
This is who did my map for my 919, for $75.

It was a great map, great guy too.

JeffoMaps.com | Official Site - EFI/Tuning Services
Thanks for the link in the earlier post and this suggestion...I think I will steer clear of a 'custom' map. Assuming that most maps available via the drop box linked to on here will pretty much do as good a job as someone making a map who has never touched ridden or heard my bike!

I did have the custom map which came with Ivan's ECU flash on my earlier FZ1. Different story all round though and had spent a huge amount of time on that flash and on that bike.

I imagine that gains in performance, fuelling, power and rideability with the PC on a 919 are much smaller.
 
#31 ·
APologies for the above. A bit garbled. Troubling times and too much codeine and back ache to deliver myself with the required clarity.

Essentially, I tried the mori4 map briefly. And it didn't produce the same initial reaching for fuel that the other two had done. I had also adjusted the TPS. Not sure if the right method, I will check back, probably in this very thread, to find the details provided by another member. I simply pressed reset, then held the throttle fully open, then hit okay and let it go. Seemed to do the trick as before this the range with the throttle only went 1-99. Now 0-100.
 
#35 ·
Sp, after my great ride yesterday I was ever so eager to get back on this morning for the ride home, but...that same horrid lurching between 2-3k rpm was apparent from the off, in many gears, not just one. The bike was obviously cold, and I could still ride it, but had to just try charge through that range. i rode for 15-20 minutes then was on the beach for an hour or so. It was then absolutely fine for the whole trip back which was around 120km. Cruising happily in top gear at 4k rpm 100km/h which I assume is normal?

It seems that this issue is there whenever the bike is started cold.

Could this be that I have not set the TPS correctly?
I may have been too swift in turning the yellows screw to adjust the idle rpm and aiming for near 12000 on the PC utility rather than focusing the needle on the actual bike?


If wiring issue then why would the thing be absolutely fine once warmed up?

No doubt I will find the same issue in the morning when I head to work, and wont have chance to make any adjustments to the TPS until tomorrow when home.

Kindly advise!

Cheers,
DDD
 
#37 · (Edited)
probably why the other map the sato one also gave the same issue. Its always between 2-3k rpm. Yet is not at all apparent when the bike is warmed up.

Definitely would say the bike is lean in those periods - it lurches and feels like its suffering fuel starvation.

If I change the figures, how much should I change them? And will that not make that area of the rpm range too rich when the bike is warmed up and the issue has gone?

Edit - I just changed all the values between 2-3k rpm all negative values I set to 0 or 1.

Will report back in the morning. Also redid the TPS sync, as the bike is still warm from the long ride today. Idle was on the tacho around 1200rpm.

Thanks for the help as always mate!
 
#38 ·
Pasted from another thread in case anyone here can help:

I'm having a lot of trouble with a Kerker 900RR header and Yosh tri-oval pipe. I've tried the 900RR header maps but getting a very significant power cutout in 6th in the 3750, 4000 and 4250rpm range. Not really surging but enough power cutout to jerk your head forward, very annoying, I never had this problem with my Delk 900RR header

In these ranges, at 2,5 and 10% throttle I've slowly added fuel in 2% increments from around -3 all the way up to +8 and it's not really helping. Considering abandoning the whole system. Ideas?
 
#39 ·
Well, the changes I made (manually by altering the values via the utility) to the mori4 map between 2-3000 rpm changing the - to 0 or 1 resulted in none of the lugging/lurching from a cold start today in that range. Maybe I added too much, so can taper it down, just perhaps halving the original values in that range or try another map which is not so lean.

It seems that adding fuel to this range solved the issue. Still cannot understand why it would be there when cold starting for 10-15 mins then vanish if I stopped the bike then restarted?

I also did the TPS once again last night, this time focusing on the rpm on the dial sticking around 1200 rather than looking at the numbers on the PC utility. Though not sure if the TPS been slightly out could have been responsible for the lugging/lurching.
 
#40 ·
The PC readout of the RPM is accurate, the tacho not necessarily so, but generally decent.
(They read high in the mid to upper revs,)
If it shows 0 % @ PC indicated 1200 RPM on a fully warmed up bike with no cold start lever effect and some very obvious throttle cable pull slack, then the stars should all be aligned.

What are you running for an air filter?
Stock?
Is your air box fully complete and stock aside from the flapper valve which is irrelevant in this case?

When you say cold start, how cold was the air temp?
(your definition of cold will surely be radically different than mine! :)

Have you had any vacuum lines off, or could any of them be aged and maybe there is a split somewhere?

Something sounds a wee bit odd about all this................
 
#41 ·
Air box seems normal, mate...

I am running a Hiflo air filter.

temperature was probably 10C overnight and the bike was left more exposed than is usual and covered even with some condensation in he bright sunny morn.

I may redo the TPS once again! use the PC reading as the measure for 1200 - or thereabouts before I do the Reset with the <. And then the Open routine to set the 0-100%.

No idea why any vacuum lines would be off. Yet if there was a split, why would the bike run absolutely fine once warmed up?

Also, there had never been any of this lurching before the PC was installed.

Finally...adding fuel to the 2-3k rpm range on the mori4 map resulted in the problem vanishing this morning when I started the bike which idled for barely a minute before I shot off on the 25 minute commute through the city.

Maybe I can try some other maps to try work out more...or rather report back to you and other kind 919ers and seek your sage advice!

Cheers,
D
 
#42 ·
I'm grasping at straws towards something sounding odd.
Starting is fussy for engine, hence wondering about things that might not otherwise show up - although the hose question was in the category of think of everything.

Feel free to try my custom map as in the Dropbox "Ben W Map for Sandy 919".
If you don't have access, send me a PM with your e mail address and I'll e mail it to you, along with another copy of the mori' map in case it has somehow become corrupted.
My map is a variation of the mori' map.
 
#44 ·
Right, I redid the TPS. This time did the Reset, then Open (bike ON but not running and throttle opened fully), then started the engine and hit the < for the closed when I got nearest to 1200, then OK.

Also sent the Sandy map (yoshi cans and BMC filter yes? as came in the description on PC utility). Had a quick spin and probably my imagination but the thing was flying...

Will check back after tomorrow's cold start and commute to work.
 
#45 ·
Mmmm... I might have misunderstood you but I think you may be off with your throttle sync. Closed means absolutely closed throttle. No idle value at 1200 for closed. Also you don't have to have the engine running to set the open/close values of the throttle, just the key in the on position. This could explain your bikes odd surging, if your sync is off. Was the bike with the power commander running OK before you synced the throttle? When you first got it back from the bike mechanic.
Like I said I may have read you post wrong, your not the only one who likes rum.
 
#46 ·
Hi mate, yes I am still not 100% sure on the sync, yet the throttle close is 0 and fully open is 100.

I warmed the bike up. Hit reset, turned the engine off, but key was on, then opened the throttle fully and let it slip back into closed. the bar goes up and the right figure sets in the PC utility screen. Then I let the bike idle and hit the < for the closed setting (when warmed up), then OK.

Is that not the method???

And the bike was doing that strange surging when I collected the bike from the mechanic, then it went away.
 
#47 ·
Just a suggestion: If you plan to sell your bike at some time in the future I would suggest you do whatever is necessary to make your PC installation a "plug in" so that you can remove it easily. Some people (myself included) won't buy a bike with a PC installed in it because it seems that many of those installations have the engine management system really screwed up and the only fix is to go back to the configuration that Mr. Honda originally set up.
 
#55 ·
Odd post, but I assume you mean well! Odd because if you read the thread and/or know anything of the PC III you would find that its not a plug and play like the PC V. Also that I had to pay someone to fit the thing! I have only had one other bike with a PC and it changed the bike immeasurably, the FZ1 went from being a savage missile to a fkin rocket, the change in power delivery (along with an ECU FLASH) was akin to riding a completely different bike. Not just a few small changes. The whole experience changed so much that had I not seen the bike, I would have sworn it was a fully different machine...

Set the idle throttle opening on fully warmed up engine on basis of laptop indicated RPM of 1200.
Do so with very obvious cable slack, so you know for sure that the Yellow throttle shaft setting screw is the only thing working the throttle shaft.
All synching with dead engine but key on.
On restart at idle, the closed position should be showing 0 on the laptop as it idles at laptop indicated 1200.


By the way, how is your temperature gauge reading?
Normally in terms of cold reading through to mid gauge opening of thermostat?
It might be worthwhile to do a check of the coolant temp sensor if anything odd about the gauge readings is apparent.
Ditto the air temp sensor.
Something simply is not right, somewhere along the line.
My suspicion is that there's no error on your part, and that something else is at play.
I have never heard of such a scenario as you are dealing with, not even close.


mcromo! Many thanks for the generous interest you are making in my PC (mis) endeavour...and before I get stuck into the below, I just got to work. I had let the bike idle for around 1 minute max before setting off this morning with the Sandy map. No trouble at all, comrade. Was a glorious ride in. Maybe the map? or could be the conditions, you see the weather is crisp and still a little dark and I have felt before the the devil steed flies in this cool, still something of the witching hour air! No surging, no lurching, no problem.

I just did Map Compare of the WT Dropbox mori' map as compared to the one stored on my laptop.
They are exactly the same, so no map corruption is evident.

Suggest that a TPS check be done unless the problem is stumbled across soon.
I can do the TPS setting Closed with the engine off also. I thought it wouldnt make any difference to set the < closed figure with the throttle closed and the engine idling and try to click the < at 1200, as the rpm jumps around a lot, even after well warmed up.

thegutterpoet,
How did you connect the tap?
When I fitted my PC, I was so scared of crushing the weenie wire being tapped, that I didn't squeeze the tap hard enough to get a good connection.
In my case, I couldn't even get it to start, and a nice nip with pliers solved the problem, after some serious frothing and foaming about plus major angst.
The point being, it seems all was well before for your bike, so whatever is wrong SHOULD just relate exclusively to the PC unit itself/it's fitment wiring wise/maps/TP synching.

Not lost on me is the problem sounds to manifest itself in the 2 - max 10 % throttle opening range.
Most strange.

I couldnt connect the PC myself! I paid a local grease merchant do to the deed. He said it was fine other than I needed some velcro sticky stuff to keep the PC in place. And one of the black connector plugs shows under the rear end of the seat (below).
Some more grasping at straws.....
What is your battery voltage before you start the bike in the morning?
What is it after just starting it, with bike fast idling?
IF the system voltage is lower than normal, and there is any marginal contacts relating to the PC connections, ground included, maybe the run time through warm up builds some battery voltage so even a low revs when the charger is not adding voltage, there's just enough "more" to overcome some excessively resistant connection.
Keep in mind I am not an electrical guy, but do have some basics.
Just a thought..............
I do have a voltmeter...but only changed the battery a few months back and it has been ridden daily with zero problem. Could still try the voltage with a cold engine start, if need be...yet can we not assume some success given the sandy map was fine and dandy???
 
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