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post #1 of 43 Old 10-08-2011, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
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extra power to PCIII?

hey guys, someone suggested to me that i connect a 9 volt battery to the PCIII while it's connected to the bike and crank it over to see if the extra 9V helps with the cold start issue. if it does, it would mean i'd need to hardwire the pcIII to the bike but this overall picture doesn't make sense to me to begin with.

so my question is, with the pcIII already getting power from the bike, how do i connect an additional 9 volts?

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post #2 of 43 Old 10-08-2011, 01:54 PM
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wiring diagram for the PC3 please

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post #3 of 43 Old 10-08-2011, 02:30 PM
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there is a 9 volt connector that comes with the pc3 to program it with out power to the bike in run.

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post #4 of 43 Old 10-08-2011, 02:55 PM Thread Starter
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really poorboy? how do i get my hands on one? thanks!

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post #5 of 43 Old 10-08-2011, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
hey guys, someone suggested to me that i connect a 9 volt battery to the PCIII while it's connected to the bike and crank it over to see if the extra 9V helps with the cold start issue. if it does, it would mean i'd need to hardwire the pcIII to the bike but this overall picture doesn't make sense to me to begin with.

so my question is, with the pcIII already getting power from the bike, how do i connect an additional 9 volts?
So, you want to experiment with your PC3.
Have it being fed by the bike's electrics, then connect an external battery to the PCIII at the same time.
Hmmmm, before ever doing that I'd want to see two explanations :
1
Why it won't possibly hurt the PC
2
Why it will help, and I don't mean a WAG Maybe either.

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post #6 of 43 Old 10-08-2011, 03:14 PM
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wont hurt as its not being supplied more than 12 v.

i could see how it might help, as during the cranking, the pc3 could be starved for juice, so it doesnt work properly, the 9v might help that

to wire it "properly" you would have to pop in a diode so the smaller battery doesnt back feed into the main power.

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post #7 of 43 Old 10-08-2011, 03:22 PM
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only thing i could see having problems with is essentially hooking the 9v battery to the 12v battery... bad things happen with alkaline batts like that

I think the more approperiate thing would be a larger say 16 or 20v capacitator, with a diode on the + line to the pc3... so when cranking the capacitator supplies the extra voltage needed to the pc3.... guys do this all the time in RC cars with high current brushless motors... you romp on it hard, all the juice goes to the motor, nothing to the radio or servos... boom you just lost signal... a simple cap fixes that.

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post #8 of 43 Old 10-08-2011, 03:28 PM Thread Starter
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yeah i just want to play with the pcIII powering up during cranking. a tuner's theory is that it's possible the pcIII isnt getting enough juice when cranking for the pcIII to fire up as it should and in theory, hooking up a 9 volt battery will test that by seeing if the bike starts up without issue with the battery plugged in.

if so, then he said a hard wire would be a possible solution. just a theory right now and i'm losing my patience with this tuner, but i'll give him the benefit of the doubt has he as a good rep standing behind him. i wonder if he's just treating the 919 like any other bike and any quick fix application that doesnt work, he's not willing to think outside the box or something. now to find a 9 volt adapter...

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post #9 of 43 Old 10-08-2011, 04:07 PM
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Why not just bypass the PC3? I assume you have already narrowed the problem to the PC being on the bike and no starting issues without it? I bet even when cranking the voltage stays above 9, grab a multimeter and check.

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post #10 of 43 Old 10-08-2011, 04:07 PM
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like stated, dont leave the 9v hooked up as a permanent solution to your problem of starting... you will essentially be hooking the 9v up straight to the 12v battery... and for any length of time longer than just starting the bike up, you could actually risk exploding the battery.

and simply hooking the 9v up to the positive and negative wont do a thing unless you have a diode in the proper direction on the main positive from the battery... this will eliminate the 9v from back feeding into the harness.... and even then see note above about exploding 9v.

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post #11 of 43 Old 10-08-2011, 05:05 PM Thread Starter
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Jarly, not interested in bypassing the PCIII, interested in FIXING the problem, not removing it. thank you for the input though, and welcome to WT!

nd4spd, slow down and re-thread my post please. i do NOT intend to leave the battery hooked up. i just want to test and see if it performs differently as per the tuner's theory.

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post #12 of 43 Old 10-08-2011, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
Jarly, not interested in bypassing the PCIII, interested in FIXING the problem, not removing it. thank you for the input though, and welcome to WT!

nd4spd, slow down and re-thread my post please. i do NOT intend to leave the battery hooked up. i just want to test and see if it performs differently as per the tuner's theory.
While you're at it, I'd be doing more tests.
In particular, if one is having the cold start problem, how about checking the cranking voltage at the battery and seeing what it is, as in, how low it is as compared to the running voltage.
In addition, do voltage checks at the taps as well, both cranking mode and run mode.

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post #13 of 43 Old 10-08-2011, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
Jarly, not interested in bypassing the PCIII, interested in FIXING the problem, not removing it. thank you for the input though, and welcome to WT!

nd4spd, slow down and re-thread my post please. i do NOT intend to leave the battery hooked up. i just want to test and see if it performs differently as per the tuner's theory.
ok then ya... figure out how many amps the pc3 pulls, get a diode (or multiple in parallel) that will be able to flow greater than that amp draw and put them in line on the lead to the pc3 (diodes are a one way valve for electronics) then hook the positive of the 9v to the line AFTER the diodes and ground it as well (obviously)

and see if that fixes your issues.

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post #14 of 43 Old 10-08-2011, 05:40 PM
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To me, an important question is what the PC3 does if it isn't getting enough juice. I would assume that either it works or it doesn't, meaning, it's applying the map to the ECU or not. With proper power it is applying the map. Without proper power, it isn't, meaning the ECU mapping is unaffected (like no PC3). The cold start problem is attributed to the PC3 since its removal and return to ECU mapping solves the problem according to folks here. If all this speculation is correct, then the theory doesn't make sense.

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post #15 of 43 Old 10-08-2011, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottawa919 View Post
To me, an important question is what the PC3 does if it isn't getting enough juice. I would assume that either it works or it doesn't, meaning, it's applying the map to the ECU or not. With proper power it is applying the map. Without proper power, it isn't, meaning the ECU mapping is unaffected (like no PC3). The cold start problem is attributed to the PC3 since its removal and return to ECU mapping solves the problem according to folks here. If all this speculation is correct, then the theory doesn't make sense.
I'm wondering about a possible low voltage sensitivity.
Some devices can still sorta work/kinda work but not properly work if on low voltage.
The association of the reported problem with cold weather is what is making me wonder, noting that often cold weather also includes greater time gaps until the next ride, so if a battery is on its way, things are aggravated.

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post #16 of 43 Old 10-08-2011, 06:45 PM
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This entire cold start things still sounds odd to me.
The descriptions sound like inadequate fuel, yet few if any maps held in PC3s have any changes to stock at 0% TP.
Meanwhile, the cold weather intended "starter valves" for enrichening, are mechanically actuated by the rider pulling on the knob.
Clearly, something is amiss for those experiencing the problem.
Obviously it's electrically related, but where is the glitch ?
Inside the PC3 or what feeds the PC3 ?

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post #17 of 43 Old 10-08-2011, 07:23 PM Thread Starter
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my thoughts exactly ndspd4, ottawa and mcromo. but i'm doing this to humor the tuner and see what happens.

mcromo that's a good idea. first i need to find a 9 volt adapter unless someone has one they're willing to ship to me and i'll send it back?

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post #18 of 43 Old 10-09-2011, 02:13 AM
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really poorboy? how do i get my hands on one? thanks!
it comes with the pc3 for programming with out the bike turned on came in the box with mine. if this actually solves the problem you have is most likely a weak battery. many ecu's require a very narrow band of voltage and amperage to function properly.

Common sense. So rare it's a god damn super power.
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post #19 of 43 Old 10-09-2011, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
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it comes with the pc3 for programming with out the bike turned on came in the box with mine. if this actually solves the problem you have is most likely a weak battery. many ecu's require a very narrow band of voltage and amperage to function properly.
Seeing as the problem is in terms of a PC3 being fitted, and the problem going away when removed, are you suggesting that the added load of the PC3 is enough to put the ECU into trouble from whatever the additional voltage drop is?

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post #20 of 43 Old 10-09-2011, 08:02 AM
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PV, The 9volt thing is so that you can remove the PCIII from the bike and bring it to a computer in order to load new maps, etc. It is not intended as a way to supply extra power. Extra power would be both unneccessary and damaging to the PCIII.

Are you having a problem with cold starts? If the problems go away after you remove the PCIII, then you already know where the problem lies...

Well, fire the engines! Spur this iron space-pony on!

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post #21 of 43 Old 10-09-2011, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
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yes, i'm fully aware of this poorboy and shadow, i'm doing this merely to humor my tuner, bear with me please.

i dont have the 9 volt adapter and need to get my hands on one. anyone care to loan one to me?

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post #22 of 43 Old 10-09-2011, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
yes, i'm fully aware of this poorboy and shadow, i'm doing this merely to humor my tuner, bear with me please.

i dont have the 9 volt adapter and need to get my hands on one. anyone care to loan one to me?
If it wasn't for the cross border grief plus our Queens Mail needing weeks to get it to you, I'd loan you mine in a flash.

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post #23 of 43 Old 10-09-2011, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
yes, i'm fully aware of this poorboy and shadow, i'm doing this merely to humor my tuner, bear with me please.

i dont have the 9 volt adapter and need to get my hands on one. anyone care to loan one to me?
radio shack?

if you really want you can solder two wires off the terminals of a 9v batt pretty easy...

if just straight hooking it up during starting doesnt solve the problem... hook it up with a diode like i explained in previous posts ... if diode + 9v cures the problem.... a big capacitor and diode will be the proper course of action.

Next time im in my buddies shop ill ask the owner n see if he has any insight on the cold start issue.

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post #24 of 43 Old 10-09-2011, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
yes, i'm fully aware of this poorboy and shadow, i'm doing this merely to humor my tuner, bear with me please.

i dont have the 9 volt adapter and need to get my hands on one. anyone care to loan one to me?
Suggest you revisit a previous thread "cold start fail #2". I remembered something from the past, found a print of it I had done, and searched for "Fuel_2.3.2.0.dfu" and voila, up popped the thread.

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post #25 of 43 Old 10-09-2011, 07:52 PM
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I updated that thread. The firmware is not a fix--wasn't for me.

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post #26 of 43 Old 10-09-2011, 08:03 PM Thread Starter
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same here for me. updated to current firmware didnt solve the problem for me, and i went from the base 1.0 version!

here's the thing guys, idk how the 9 volt adapter connects to the pcIII, i've never seen one, much less use one so i'm completely clueless and unless i'm an idiot, i cannot find a reference for one on the pcIII website. i dont even know where it would connect to the pcIII for that matter.

what i mean is, i cannot figure out how the 9 volt adapter would connect to the pcIII when it's connected to the bike. this is what baffles me.

any help, pictures, etc?

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post #27 of 43 Old 10-09-2011, 08:09 PM Thread Starter
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all i can find is this: https://cart.jetkit.com/p-832-pciii-...ng-module.aspx

where the hell would it connect to if the pcIII is connected to the bike?

edit: ok been doing some extra digging and it connects right next to the mini usb, cool. here's a decent parts list from radio shack on how to make a 9 volt adapter. gonna give this a whirl tomorrow after classes.

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240574

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post #28 of 43 Old 10-09-2011, 08:22 PM
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Here's where it plugs in

images.jpeg



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post #29 of 43 Old 10-09-2011, 08:50 PM
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pvster, if you don't figure this out, let me know. I have an adapter and I will actually be in your neighborhood on wednesday (work training) in hillsboro. I could bring it up with me and you can use it or attempt to make another.

Sorry I was late to the party on this one, I've been playing it up in Cabo. :-)

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post #30 of 43 Old 10-09-2011, 10:53 PM Thread Starter
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doh google, had to be here on a day where i have a full day of classes. how long you here for? i'd like to at least meet ya! thanks for the offer google, lets see if we can arrange something.

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post #31 of 43 Old 10-10-2011, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
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doh google, had to be here on a day where i have a full day of classes. how long you here for? i'd like to at least meet ya! thanks for the offer google, lets see if we can arrange something.
fo sure... I fly in on Wed., work Thurs. and Friday and fly out Sat. mid-day.

So Thurs. or Friday night might work for me. I'll probably (hopefully) be off by 5pm or so. I will be in Hillsboro, but will have a rental car.

And yes, I asked if I could ride my bike up and yes, they told me no.

Stupid liability crap.

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post #32 of 43 Old 10-10-2011, 05:48 PM
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I don't think you should fuck around trying to second guess your electronics and such.


Your battery forms a good enough supply for your PC that you need not jerk your gherkin worrying about it not receiving enough oomph for some unknown reason.

Plus, it's a couple volts higher potential than the transistor battery.

What did you really think it would accomplish? I different flavor of holes and electrons?

The 9V port is solely there to bench program. I think my ZX10R had the port used for an ancillary supply because there was an anomaly with my particular charging/battery system but it's been so many years since I programmed, I don't remember.

If you are worried about your cold start idiosyncrasy, look first for high resistance connections or pulled connector pins. Look for broken wires and such. Look for signs of water damage.


I'm not fathoming the add-a-battery fantasy thing here.

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post #33 of 43 Old 10-10-2011, 05:58 PM
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We might not agree on many things, but I'm 100% with Bigdaa on this one. There is nothing to be gained from attaching a 9V battery in addition to the 12V connection, as Dave pointed out, that is strictly there for bench testing.

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post #34 of 43 Old 10-10-2011, 06:27 PM
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what might be a better course of action is if the thought is that the pc3 isnt getting a steady voltage during starting (which is causing the issues), then to place a large cap to act as a filter after a diode on the 12+ to the pc3... this will filter the voltage to the pc3 and provide a steady 12v's

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post #35 of 43 Old 10-10-2011, 07:53 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
fo sure... I fly in on Wed., work Thurs. and Friday and fly out Sat. mid-day.

So Thurs. or Friday night might work for me. I'll probably (hopefully) be off by 5pm or so. I will be in Hillsboro, but will have a rental car.
damnit.... have classes til late weds (out at 9:10), meeting at 8 pm in vancouver on thursday, and have to sign papers/finish packing for our new place on friday afternoon lol.

depending on how late you want to stay up, i'm more than happy to meet with ya weds night after class. hell if u want i'll show u over to voodoo donuts and any other popular local places if ur interested. just let me know and we'll work somethin out!

oh and if ur feelin so inclined, go ahead and bring your 9 volt adapter. i'll borrow it for a few days if that's cool with you and then mail it back to ya.

bigdaa and seabu, i'm completely with you on this issue. i'm just trying to humor my tuner and tell him it was done so i can say i know for sure it doesnt work. i feel like he's dickin me around considering he hasn't followed through on his promises 5 months after the dynotune and when i posted in the local forum that him and i needed to talk and resolve the issues considering the time frame and the seriousness of the issues, nearly the entire forum jumped down my throat. of course i could of pm'd him but that was just another potential forgotten communication and he relies heavily on his cell which isnt an option for me, so i digress. i could of been more tactful about it but just got tired of waiting and being acknowledged and still not getting any help.

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post #36 of 43 Old 10-11-2011, 06:03 PM
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Pvster, I leave SLC at 11:15, so yeah, as long as I get to bed before midnight 1am, I should be good.

I texted your cell, hope you got it, if not, PM me.

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post #37 of 43 Old 10-17-2011, 06:21 PM
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Not trying to thread jack- but so I don't start a new thread, when soldering the TPS for a PCIII, do I have to disconnect any connections so there are no bike destroying surges or something of the sort. I thought I remembered reading something about this.

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post #38 of 43 Old 10-17-2011, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
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Not trying to thread jack- but so I don't start a new thread, when soldering the TPS for a PCIII, do I have to disconnect any connections so there are no bike destroying surges or something of the sort. I thought I remembered reading something about this.

Soldering ????????

Aside from that, just disconnect your battery, not that you should have to, but do it just the same, always a good practice for things electrical in nature.

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post #39 of 43 Old 10-17-2011, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
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Soldering ????????

Aside from that, just disconnect your battery, not that you should have to, but do it just the same, always a good practice for things electrical in nature.
Ummm... yes soldering.
I got it used but didn't have a wire tap, and I've heard those taps are useless so I figured I would solder it. Thanks for the advise better safe than sorry.

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post #40 of 43 Old 10-17-2011, 07:49 PM
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as long as your not using one of those cold solder soldering irons... and are just using the standard plug in the wall heat up really hot soldering irons, ya no need to disconnect anything.

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