dobeck performance - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 126 Old 02-11-2012, 03:29 PM Thread Starter
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dobeck performance

Has anyone tryed a dobeck performance unit on a 919 at all and if you have any noticable diffrence in performance

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post #2 of 126 Old 02-11-2012, 03:42 PM
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3 people i know have them who had power commanders..and swear by them....most i know with power commanders suck down gas and have no idea if they gained or lost power

dont need a bike to ride the fast lane
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post #3 of 126 Old 02-11-2012, 03:53 PM
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Hmmm, can you post a link?

Well, fire the engines! Spur this iron space-pony on!

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post #4 of 126 Old 02-11-2012, 04:10 PM Thread Starter
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post #5 of 126 Old 02-11-2012, 04:25 PM
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I've never heard of these before, waiting for the peanut gallery...

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post #6 of 126 Old 02-11-2012, 04:52 PM
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i'm gonna go out on a limb and call "b.s."

according to the instructions it adds fuel and has no provision to reduce fuel.

as most of us know the 919 is overly rich, the last thing it needs is more fuel.

p.s. unless you live in alaska and drag race it , or turbo it

'04 Honda 919, Candy apple red met., 17/44t sprockets,f-16 windscreen,delkevic ss exhaust,Tharbars,givi engine bars, billet alum. led turns w/ running lights,red adj.levers from china, bar end mirrors,grip heaters,adj. foot peg brackets,adj. bar risers,dunlop Q2(that are better than your pp 2ct,lol)bike wired for gps and phone charger
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post #7 of 126 Old 02-11-2012, 07:12 PM
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sounds like another juicebox.... which we all know is pointless.

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post #8 of 126 Old 02-11-2012, 08:53 PM
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Dobeck was involved in the original design of the Powercommander.

I think it would be safe to say that it is silly to buy any product other than a Powercommander for Fi tuning. No other product in the world will have the level of both customer support and consumer support for sharing maps etc that the Powercommander product has.

I will also go so far as to say that no product on the market that simply alters the injector dwell time is going to offer a significant change in performance over another similar product although other products that cannot add fuel to the mapping or do not have the same level of tunable resolution that the PCIII does will suffer in terms of actually improving the throttle response and linear power delivery throughout the entire rev range. Remember there is more to tuning a bike than just getting a good full throttle power curve. Part throttle and roll-on performance is more important to most riders.

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post #9 of 126 Old 02-13-2012, 11:11 AM
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I know that Dobeck has fuel removal also. In "most" cases increasing flow(intake,exhaust) on finely factory tuned engines can and will cause good and/or bad results. Usually you will see a need to pull down a little fuel on the bottom and maybe in the mid but the increased flow will take on more fuel at the top which always makes more power. I would give the guys at Dobeck Performance a call, there is a guy there named Matt that is a certified Honda tech. Mark Dobeck of Dobeck performance started Dynojet about 20 years ago so there is definitely some merit to there new company.

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post #10 of 126 Old 02-13-2012, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gforce View Post
I know that Dobeck has fuel removal also. In "most" cases increasing flow(intake,exhaust) on finely factory tuned engines can and will cause good and/or bad results. Usually you will see a need to pull down a little fuel on the bottom and maybe in the mid but the increased flow will take on more fuel at the top which always makes more power. I would give the guys at Dobeck Performance a call, there is a guy there named Matt that is a certified Honda tech. Mark Dobeck of Dobeck performance started Dynojet about 20 years ago so there is definitely some merit to there new company.
maybe but not according to his instructions. and he clearly states to add fuel. 1'oclock is the "off" position and he adds fuel as stated here

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to me it seems he hasn't done any tuning on our bikes.mostly by this comment in the 919 instructions

"Nothing is leaner than a stock fuel injection map"


go to his site and read the instructions for the 919/hornet for yourself

'04 Honda 919, Candy apple red met., 17/44t sprockets,f-16 windscreen,delkevic ss exhaust,Tharbars,givi engine bars, billet alum. led turns w/ running lights,red adj.levers from china, bar end mirrors,grip heaters,adj. foot peg brackets,adj. bar risers,dunlop Q2(that are better than your pp 2ct,lol)bike wired for gps and phone charger
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post #11 of 126 Old 02-13-2012, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
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"Nothing is leaner than a stock fuel injection map"
[/FONT]


maybe he'd like to see my map?

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post #12 of 126 Old 02-14-2012, 09:30 AM
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Is far as "there is nothing leaner than a stock map" goes, there is a specific amount of emissions allowed during portions of what is called a "drive cycle" on EPA legal vehicles. Having said that there is usually a need for a little fuel in those EPA regulated areas. In my earlier post there was mention of a possibility of creating a rich condition due to certain modifications which I have personally seen. I noticed there website isn't displaying a product that pulls fuel. But i know someone who is using a Dobeck product that removes and adds fuel. The product that you are using is just a fuel adder, definitely not the most versatile and almost too basic for the finely tuned sport bike engines. I would give Dobeck performance a call and see what they say, it can't hurt any. Very knowledgeable guys and easy to talk with.

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post #13 of 126 Old 02-14-2012, 09:59 AM
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i'm not using it. i just posted that the only 1 dobeck has listed for the 919 is a fuel adder, not what the 919 needs

'04 Honda 919, Candy apple red met., 17/44t sprockets,f-16 windscreen,delkevic ss exhaust,Tharbars,givi engine bars, billet alum. led turns w/ running lights,red adj.levers from china, bar end mirrors,grip heaters,adj. foot peg brackets,adj. bar risers,dunlop Q2(that are better than your pp 2ct,lol)bike wired for gps and phone charger
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post #14 of 126 Old 02-23-2012, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by secondchance View Post
3 people i know have them who had power commanders..and swear by them....most i know with power commanders suck down gas and have no idea if they gained or lost power
Why are there conflicting results of 3 people that swear by them, others call out the bike is too rich? How is it that yes, the TFI can only add fuel, but again someone screams rich, the 3 amigos yell, 'I swear it runs smoother??'

Sounds like 3 happy riders that could tune the bike. One or two riders here that cry foul, 'I can't tune it out.' [too rich?]


Which is it? I'm going to get to the bottom of this.

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post #15 of 126 Old 02-23-2012, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dev View Post
Why are there conflicting results of 3 people that swear by them, others call out the bike is too rich? How is it that yes, the TFI can only add fuel, but again someone screams rich, the 3 amigos yell, 'I swear it runs smoother??'

Sounds like 3 happy riders that could tune the bike. One or two riders here that cry foul, 'I can't tune it out.' [too rich?]


Which is it? I'm going to get to the bottom of this.
use the search button on the top of the naked section.
i don't know if the 3 he talks about are all 919s. but it is common knowledge that the 919 runs too rich stock. that tuner "appears" to add fuel only...so i don't need it.

besides secondchance used all his chances bullshitting here on wt and was escorted to the door

'04 Honda 919, Candy apple red met., 17/44t sprockets,f-16 windscreen,delkevic ss exhaust,Tharbars,givi engine bars, billet alum. led turns w/ running lights,red adj.levers from china, bar end mirrors,grip heaters,adj. foot peg brackets,adj. bar risers,dunlop Q2(that are better than your pp 2ct,lol)bike wired for gps and phone charger
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post #16 of 126 Old 02-23-2012, 07:42 PM
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besides secondchance used all his chances bullshitting here on wt and was escorted to the door


I know I'm the new guy. I know a little bit of what I know. I have guys running up to me about wanting respect and all that. But, when I see someone that has no clue about their calling out, 'there are no low speed screws in any fuel injected bike,' I think you need a second chance, guy.

If you step in that description I mentioned, who's fault is that? I'm going to keep an eye on you now that you exposed yourself. Once we discuss fuel injection in a place called, "mechanical and technical" try to clean up your act some, OK, guy? I think I can tell someone that can BS their way thru something?

Care to try fuel injection and a TFI vs. PC vs. We don't need no stink'inn fuel cutters if we are already rich to begin with? Say, yes I didn't know about low speed screws on FI bikes... I better be careful who I call out that says someone is BS'inn and now who is going to be schooled here, fella?

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post #17 of 126 Old 02-23-2012, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dev View Post


I know I'm the new guy. I know a little bit of what I know. I have guys running up to me about wanting respect and all that. But, when I see someone that has no clue about their calling out, 'there are no low speed screws in any fuel injected bike,' I think you need a second chance, guy.

If you step in that description I mentioned, who's fault is that? I'm going to keep an eye on you now that you exposed yourself. Once we discuss fuel injection in a place called, "mechanical and technical" try to clean up your act some, OK, guy? I think I can tell someone that can BS their way thru something?

Care to try fuel injection and a TFI vs. PC vs. We don't need no stink'inn fuel cutters if we are already rich to begin with? Say, yes I didn't know about low speed screws on FI bikes... I better be careful who I call out that says someone is BS'inn and now who is going to be schooled here, fella?
I read that like 3 times and still am not entirely sure what is being said. I probably missed the part where dude is calling out guy and dude is full of crap.

oh, and please let me know where the low speed screw is on my 919 so i can lean it a little.

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post #18 of 126 Old 02-23-2012, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dev View Post


I know I'm the new guy. I know a little bit of what I know. I have guys running up to me about wanting respect and all that. But, when I see someone that has no clue about their calling out, 'there are no low speed screws in any fuel injected bike,' I think you need a second chance, guy.

If you step in that description I mentioned, who's fault is that? I'm going to keep an eye on you now that you exposed yourself. Once we discuss fuel injection in a place called, "mechanical and technical" try to clean up your act some, OK, guy? I think I can tell someone that can BS their way thru something?

Care to try fuel injection and a TFI vs. PC vs. We don't need no stink'inn fuel cutters if we are already rich to begin with? Say, yes I didn't know about low speed screws on FI bikes... I better be careful who I call out that says someone is BS'inn and now who is going to be schooled here, fella?

maybe you can re-read the posts above yours AND GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT before you get all hollier than thou, pal

maybe start with addressing each person 1 at a time and stop changinging what each person said?

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post #19 of 126 Old 02-23-2012, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewvir View Post
use the search button on the top of the naked section.
i don't know if the 3 he talks about are all 919s. but it is common knowledge that the 919 runs too rich stock. that tuner "appears" to add fuel only...so i don't need it.

besides secondchance used all his chances bullshitting here on wt and was escorted to the door

like this is what i posted

'04 Honda 919, Candy apple red met., 17/44t sprockets,f-16 windscreen,delkevic ss exhaust,Tharbars,givi engine bars, billet alum. led turns w/ running lights,red adj.levers from china, bar end mirrors,grip heaters,adj. foot peg brackets,adj. bar risers,dunlop Q2(that are better than your pp 2ct,lol)bike wired for gps and phone charger
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post #20 of 126 Old 02-23-2012, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dev View Post


I know I'm the new guy. I know a little bit of what I know. I have guys running up to me about wanting respect and all that. But, when I see someone that has no clue about their calling out, 'there are no low speed screws in any fuel injected bike,'


and this was not me, so get your facts straight

'04 Honda 919, Candy apple red met., 17/44t sprockets,f-16 windscreen,delkevic ss exhaust,Tharbars,givi engine bars, billet alum. led turns w/ running lights,red adj.levers from china, bar end mirrors,grip heaters,adj. foot peg brackets,adj. bar risers,dunlop Q2(that are better than your pp 2ct,lol)bike wired for gps and phone charger
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post #21 of 126 Old 02-23-2012, 08:42 PM
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post #22 of 126 Old 02-23-2012, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by gforce View Post
In "most" cases increasing flow(intake,exhaust) on finely factory tuned engines can and will cause good and/or bad results.
So, increased gas flow can cause bad results.
I put that one in the same category as "919s run rich".

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post #23 of 126 Old 02-23-2012, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewvir View Post
and this was not me, so get your facts straight
I think it was in response to another thread.

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post #24 of 126 Old 02-23-2012, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Superdog View Post
I think it was in response to another thread.
and i didn't post anything on that whole thread.that was 3dcycle.
so like i said,"he needs to get his facts straight"

so how did i get dragged in to this miss quote??

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post #25 of 126 Old 02-23-2012, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewvir View Post
and i didn't post anything on that whole thread.that was 3dcycle.
so like i said,"he needs to get his facts straight"

so how did i get dragged in to this miss quote??
You're probably just still a bit twisted over the 919's idle screws.

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post #26 of 126 Old 02-23-2012, 08:57 PM
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No clue. I wouldn't worry too much about it

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post #27 of 126 Old 02-23-2012, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
You're probably just still a bit twisted over the 919's idle screws.

wth r u talkin' 'bout willis?

the big yeller one???

righty-tighty,lefty-lucy?

'04 Honda 919, Candy apple red met., 17/44t sprockets,f-16 windscreen,delkevic ss exhaust,Tharbars,givi engine bars, billet alum. led turns w/ running lights,red adj.levers from china, bar end mirrors,grip heaters,adj. foot peg brackets,adj. bar risers,dunlop Q2(that are better than your pp 2ct,lol)bike wired for gps and phone charger
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post #28 of 126 Old 02-23-2012, 11:02 PM
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I said, there was someone who said there was no and I quote, 'any low speed jets in a throttle body. First, I'd like to get that out of the way. Here is the photo, plus I tune a lot, so I need a fast way to set the AFR [air fuel ratio].

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post #29 of 126 Old 02-23-2012, 11:53 PM
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I said, there was someone who said there was no and I quote, 'any low speed jets in a throttle body. First, I'd like to get that out of the way. Here is the photo, plus I tune a lot, so I need a fast way to set the AFR [air fuel ratio].
Any chance you could use the screws to ratchet back the antagonism a few notches, Dev?

Not every conversation has to be a prelude to a fist-fight, at least not in this forum. Present your case and folks will give you a good hearing.

Spit and sneer and scoff, and they probably won't.

Two cents...

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post #30 of 126 Old 02-24-2012, 04:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewvir View Post
use the search button on the top of the naked section.
i don't know if the 3 he talks about are all 919s. but it is common knowledge that the 919 runs too rich stock. that tuner "appears" to add fuel only...so i don't need it.

besides secondchance used all his chances bullshitting here on wt and was escorted to the door
everyone says 919 runs rich...maybe for a dyno pull but not in real word street riding..when riding in temps from 30 deg to 100...you need map to cover all conditions ....still no soot inside exhaust plugs clean...how rich can it be at 48 50 mpg

dont need a bike to ride the fast lane
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post #31 of 126 Old 02-24-2012, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secondchance View Post
everyone says 919 runs rich...maybe for a dyno pull but not in real word street riding..when riding in temps from 30 deg to 100...you need map to cover all conditions ....still no soot inside exhaust plugs clean...how rich can it be at 48 50 mpg

wipe your finger in your exhaust outlet or if you've ridden behind a 9'er when he punches it every one i've seen stock puffs black smoke. just sayin'.

mine does it bad but the plugs are picture perfect,go figure

'04 Honda 919, Candy apple red met., 17/44t sprockets,f-16 windscreen,delkevic ss exhaust,Tharbars,givi engine bars, billet alum. led turns w/ running lights,red adj.levers from china, bar end mirrors,grip heaters,adj. foot peg brackets,adj. bar risers,dunlop Q2(that are better than your pp 2ct,lol)bike wired for gps and phone charger
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post #32 of 126 Old 02-24-2012, 08:06 AM
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Any chance you could use the screws to ratchet back the antagonism a few notches, Dev?
You mean the hairdresser is upsetting the group? I make a comment about a tuning problem, it becomes a brawl?

Quote:
Not every conversation has to be a prelude to a fist-fight, at least not in this forum.
I think that is a felony these days? Someone wants to have a war over a throttle body hole position? Funny!

Quote:
Present your case and folks will give you a good hearing.
I think I did? I'm waiting for the return answer? I think I presented a way to tune the bike? I'm being told there is no way? I said, did you try this? I get a fallacy answer or a valid one is why we are at this present position.

Quote:
Spit and sneer and scoff, and they probably won't.
So the psychology is they [all/some/most] will probably what? Are you calling the group what to do? Is this a place of grown ups or for grown ups?

YOu are holding your ankles at the gas pump, there is a way to keep those pants on a little bit longer, but I guess some just have large bank accounts.

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Two cents...
Well, I guess everyone has one of those stinkers as they walk the talk... I think I gave my 3 scents. You know that smell you talk about?

There has to be someone here with a down bike, a throttle body on the bench and a blind eye take a look see.

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post #33 of 126 Old 02-24-2012, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secondchance View Post
everyone says 919 runs rich...maybe for a dyno pull but not in real word street riding..when riding in temps from 30 deg to 100...you need map to cover all conditions ....still no soot inside exhaust plugs clean...how rich can it be at 48 50 mpg
sorry but you're wrong.... again! we're used to it

the 919 is rich on some spots, lean in others, depending on throttle input% vs rpm. in general terms though, yes the 919 runs rich. the stock fueling map is all over the place.

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post #34 of 126 Old 02-24-2012, 10:33 AM
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the stock fueling map is all over the place.
Pvester rather nicely nailed it.
I'd call the stock map as being a bit wonky.

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post #35 of 126 Old 02-24-2012, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
the 919 is rich on some spots, lean in others, depending on throttle input% vs rpm. in general terms though, yes the 919 runs rich. the stock fueling map is all over the place.
Ok, no particular challenge, but how has this been determined, and is there any documentation on it ?

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post #36 of 126 Old 02-24-2012, 03:32 PM
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jesus howard christ we go through this like every 2 months...

Here is a stock map that Dynojet created for the 919. This means it is designed with OEM exhausts and no mods.

Dynojet typically targets 13.1:1 for an A/F ratio


Negative values are where they are REMOVING fuel from the fuel table



Can we move on now?

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post #37 of 126 Old 02-24-2012, 03:37 PM
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umm, never mind ldh. Didn't mean to upset you with a simple request for how this was determined.

btw, if you think about it, a display of the map from dynojet doesn't say anything about the measurement methodology, or even how they decided on this particular map.

I am a little curious about the units of measure the positive/negative numbers represent, given that the screenshot doesn't say.

So jesus howard christ, if your going to respond to a post, at least try to respond with the requested information.

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post #38 of 126 Old 02-24-2012, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
Here is a stock map that Dynojet created for the 919. This means it is designed with OEM exhausts and no mods.

Dynojet typically targets 13.1:1 for an A/F ratio


Negative values are where they are REMOVING fuel from the fuel table

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichT View Post
think about it, a display of the map from dynojet doesn't say anything about the measurement methodology, or even how they decided on this particular map.

So jesus howard christ, if your going to respond to a post, at least try to respond with the requested information.
uh, he JUST DID..... when someone tries to tune a bike using the a/f ratio, that means they have a sensor in the exhaust outlet.

so in other words:
the how: targeted a/f range is 13.1:1 with a sensor detecting the exhaust and removing fuel throughout the throttle input % vs 250 rpm segment to reach an ideal or as close to 13.1:1 as they can.

i have attached a scan of one of my dyno runs that shows the a/f mixture chart and what they're looking for. hopefully it helps gives you a better picture of what's going on when a bike goes through the tuning process.
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File Type: jpg img011.jpg (182.8 KB, 29 views)

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post #39 of 126 Old 02-24-2012, 03:46 PM
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well, no he didn't. but if the request doesn't make sense to you either .. forget it. Both of you have very effectively answered a couple of other questions at the same time.

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post #40 of 126 Old 02-24-2012, 03:46 PM
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Well how do you think a Powercommander map is made??? You stick a calibrated lambda sensor up the ass of a bike on the dyno and emulate the real world load conditions at the graduated resolution every 500 rpms and 0, 2, 5, 10, 20, 40, 60, 80 & 100% throttle positions and alter the injector dwell time with positive or negative values.

Since I gave you the common target A/F ratio it is not that hard to figure out that the bike was obviously rich from the factory in varying increments to require a map with so many negative numbers to correct it.

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