DIY Dyno tune - Wrist Twisters
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 24 Old 05-20-2011, 02:20 AM Thread Starter
Carp Killer
 
Wallybanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 285
Rep Power: 1
 
DIY Dyno tune

I have a stock air filter, 2 Bros pipes and a PCIII on my 919. I'm finding that I'm still getting a good amount of BLACK soot around my pipe tips and it even blackens my license plate!

I don't really wanna pay for as professional tune because I know it's going to cost me an arm and a leg. That said, if I can spend the money on equipment to do the tuning myself, I call that a win.

Someone else mentioned in another thread that they welded a bung into their pipe and used a wideband O2 sensor with an LED readout to mod their map.

That sounds like a good idea but I would like to log the output so I don't have to look at the readout while I'm ripping. I would also like to log the RPM so I can make a graph.

You can buy fairly cheap OBD2 scan tools which will log data and generate graphs but since our bikes aren't OBD2 I imagine it would take some jerry rigging.

I could ride with a laptop in my backpack but would need some sort of USB adapter for an O2 sensor and RPM readout.

Anyway, I would love to hear some ideas... maybe this tool already exists?

Wallybanger is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 24 Old 05-20-2011, 02:31 AM Thread Starter
Carp Killer
 
Wallybanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 285
Rep Power: 1
 
Guess you could use an electrical signal data logger. Would probably need to build something that would generate the correct voltage output for the RPM.

Electronic Signal Data Logger - Seacom Process Instruments

Wallybanger is offline  
post #3 of 24 Old 05-20-2011, 02:40 AM Thread Starter
Carp Killer
 
Wallybanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 285
Rep Power: 1
 
Scratch last.... looks like this will do the trick

LM-2 Wideband O2 Digital Air/fuel Ratio Meter

Has anyone had the soot issue and been able to rectify it with tuning?

Wallybanger is offline  
 
post #4 of 24 Old 05-20-2011, 05:16 AM
Tirone Choolaces
 
marylandmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 11,124
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 3

Looks like you are back into "arm & a leg" territory. I would investigate if a PC-V and Auto-tune module would work on the bike. You still would need an O2 sensor welded into the exhaust. With this set-up I think you just set the target A/F ratio and it will make it so.

http://www.powercommander.com/downlo...des/AT-200.pdf

marylandmike is offline  
post #5 of 24 Old 05-20-2011, 06:38 AM
Optio
 
firedave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 953
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallybanger View Post
Scratch last.... looks like this will do the trick

LM-2 Wideband O2 Digital Air/fuel Ratio Meter

Has anyone had the soot issue and been able to rectify it with tuning?
I gave Pvster's PC111 map a try. After 600kms I had very little soot on my end caps and the exhaust stink is almost gone. Probably be able to get rid of it fully if you went the wide band root, then you could tune for your elevation.

2016 Honda Africa Twin
2007 Honda 919
1998 Kawi ZX9R (Sold)
firedave is offline  
post #6 of 24 Old 05-20-2011, 07:32 AM
McTavish
 
mcromo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,655
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallybanger View Post
I have a stock air filter, 2 Bros pipes and a PCIII on my 919. I'm finding that I'm still getting a good amount of BLACK soot around my pipe tips and it even blackens my license plate!

I don't really wanna pay for as professional tune because I know it's going to cost me an arm and a leg. That said, if I can spend the money on equipment to do the tuning myself, I call that a win.

Someone else mentioned in another thread that they welded a bung into their pipe and used a wideband O2 sensor with an LED readout to mod their map.

That sounds like a good idea but I would like to log the output so I don't have to look at the readout while I'm ripping. I would also like to log the RPM so I can make a graph.

You can buy fairly cheap OBD2 scan tools which will log data and generate graphs but since our bikes aren't OBD2 I imagine it would take some jerry rigging.

I could ride with a laptop in my backpack but would need some sort of USB adapter for an O2 sensor and RPM readout.

Anyway, I would love to hear some ideas... maybe this tool already exists?
I'm curious as to what map you are presently running.
It sounds rather rich.
Are you running regular grade gas ? (if not, you ARE wasting money and losing power)
You're near or at sea, correct ?
If you don't have it, LDH's v4 Moriwaki based map is probably the best baseline map to use with twin outlet slipons.
Have you done any map compare work with software ?
IF you have not, and don't want to, feel free to e mail me your map and I'll do a map compare for you.

mcromo44 is offline  
post #7 of 24 Old 05-20-2011, 07:38 AM
Tirone shoelaces
 
TexasTraffic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 744
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallybanger View Post
Scratch last.... looks like this will do the trick

LM-2 Wideband O2 Digital Air/fuel Ratio Meter

Has anyone had the soot issue and been able to rectify it with tuning?
Soot issue - YES. It is a PITA.

No attempt to fix, yet.

TexasTraffic is offline  
post #8 of 24 Old 05-20-2011, 08:24 AM
Community Moderator
 
g00gl3it's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,614
Rep Power: 1
  

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 3

I agree....try a different map. Here are all my maps, plus Pvster's is in there, too.

Dropbox - PC3 maps.zip - Simplify your life


Experiment! Clean the tips off and ride hard. Or have someone follow you and they will be able to see the smokey look of a rich exhaust on hard accel. and/or smell it.


Rinse and repeat.

2009 Aprilia Tuono - Ginger
2001 XR650R BRP (Big Red Pig)
2006 Honda 599 - Ex wrecked it :-D
2007 Honda CB900F (sold)
2006 Honda VTX 1300C (sold)
YouTube Channel
g00gl3it is offline  
post #9 of 24 Old 05-20-2011, 03:26 PM
Pilus Posterior
 
AllanB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,101
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 1
 
Alternatively just ride the heck out of the thing. A few skiddies in your undies does not ruin a day.

AllanB is offline  
post #10 of 24 Old 05-20-2011, 11:49 PM
SiB
Tirone
 
SiB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: alberta, canada
Posts: 72
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallybanger View Post
Scratch last.... looks like this will do the trick

LM-2 Wideband O2 Digital Air/fuel Ratio Meter

Has anyone had the soot issue and been able to rectify it with tuning?
I use the LM-2 on my 919, just started. I log AFR obviously, RPM and TPS. Open the datalogs on the laptop and adjust the power commander at the same time. Its obviously not really fast, but its the next best thing to a dyno, and better than using random maps.

SiB is offline  
post #11 of 24 Old 05-21-2011, 01:22 AM
Tirone
 
Istvan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Sweden
Posts: 47
Rep Power: 1
 
I dont really understand, so you are willing to pay 4-500 dollars for equipment and go through alot of hazzel just so you can make a half-good map. Rather then pay a 150-300 dollars for a pro to make a really great map for your bike on a dyno with numbers to see the difference? Don't get me wrong, but I just think it's a waste of time & money, and you can do it for severeal hours but it wont turn out as good as if a pro did it for 30min on a dyno.

Just my opinion after maping a couple of cars.. Alright if you already had all the equipment to do the map for free. But spending big money on a LM-2 and etc just sounds wrong to me on a bike where even pro's have touble finding a couple of extra HP compared to stock. What they can do for you is to smoothen the hp/nm curve out, which will be impossible for you if you dont have a superb ass-dyno and can feel the difference of 1-2hp difference across the range.

My tip, go to a local tuner with a dyno, talk to him and ask him for 30-60 min of his time, wont cost you that much cause there isn't to much to do on a stock map if you just done some BPU on youre bike.

Just my 2 cents..

Riding a GSX-R 1000 Streetfighter 170whp
Istvan is offline  
post #12 of 24 Old 05-21-2011, 10:36 AM
SiB
Tirone
 
SiB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: alberta, canada
Posts: 72
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Istvan View Post
I dont really understand, so you are willing to pay 4-500 dollars for equipment and go through alot of hazzel just so you can make a half-good map. Rather then pay a 150-300 dollars for a pro to make a really great map for your bike on a dyno with numbers to see the difference? Don't get me wrong, but I just think it's a waste of time & money, and you can do it for severeal hours but it wont turn out as good as if a pro did it for 30min on a dyno.

Just my opinion after maping a couple of cars.. Alright if you already had all the equipment to do the map for free. But spending big money on a LM-2 and etc just sounds wrong to me on a bike where even pro's have touble finding a couple of extra HP compared to stock. What they can do for you is to smoothen the hp/nm curve out, which will be impossible for you if you dont have a superb ass-dyno and can feel the difference of 1-2hp difference across the range.

My tip, go to a local tuner with a dyno, talk to him and ask him for 30-60 min of his time, wont cost you that much cause there isn't to much to do on a stock map if you just done some BPU on youre bike.

Just my 2 cents..
Or if you already own the LM-2 from other projects and the closest bike dyno is a 6 hour drive away........ ya I dont have a choice. If you have a tuner with dyno close by for sure do that.

SiB is offline  
post #13 of 24 Old 05-21-2011, 02:22 PM
Tirone
 
Istvan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Sweden
Posts: 47
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiB View Post
Or if you already own the LM-2 from other projects and the closest bike dyno is a 6 hour drive away........ ya I dont have a choice. If you have a tuner with dyno close by for sure do that.
Offcourse, as I said " Alright if you already had all the equipment to do the map for free. But spending big money on a..." And this was not ment for you buddy. Just my advise for the topic starter as he does'nt seem to own any equipment

Best regards

Riding a GSX-R 1000 Streetfighter 170whp
Istvan is offline  
post #14 of 24 Old 05-21-2011, 06:56 PM
McTavish
 
mcromo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,655
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by firedave View Post
I gave Pvster's PC111 map a try. After 600kms I had very little soot on my end caps and the exhaust stink is almost gone. Probably be able to get rid of it fully if you went the wide band root, then you could tune for your elevation.

Pvester's dyno curves are very very smooth and displaying the expected numbers.
I'm still scratching my head over the actual map, but that is very secondary to what works well.
I'm going to be trying the map out for both typical mixed riding and a track day, a hot track day in particular.

mcromo44 is offline  
post #15 of 24 Old 05-22-2011, 07:13 PM
Optio
 
touring919's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: OH
Posts: 917
Rep Power: 1
 
I say get the LM2 or similar system. Tuing on the bike on the road is actual use. Much more accurate than dyno. Maybe not the safest.

And it makes perfect sense to buy it. Its a tool. 300 bucks andd the guy never has to pay for a dyno tune every again. On any IC vehicle. Car, bike, heck he could tune his freakin lawn mower if he wanted to. I think its a no brainer to get the software. There is a reason why Bazzaz systems work great on the track. They tune on the track at speed. There are short comings to that system though. And a wide band with a logger would be awsome tool in the tool box.

If you couldn't tell, I want a wide band logger really bad. Havn't had the stars aligne so that i would buy one yet. but it will happen soon for sure.

02 919 (RIP)
07 600RR
07 CRF450X
81 XS850
09 Versys
touring919 is offline  
post #16 of 24 Old 05-24-2011, 10:53 AM Thread Starter
Carp Killer
 
Wallybanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 285
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
I'm curious as to what map you are presently running.
It sounds rather rich.
Are you running regular grade gas ? (if not, you ARE wasting money and losing power)
You're near or at sea, correct ?
If you don't have it, LDH's v4 Moriwaki based map is probably the best baseline map to use with twin outlet slipons.
Have you done any map compare work with software ?
IF you have not, and don't want to, feel free to e mail me your map and I'll do a map compare for you.
I'm running the map from the Two Brothers website.

Yep, just running regular gas

I'm at 350M (1150ft) AMSL

I haven't done any map compare and I honestly don't know what that is or how to do it.

Can you mess the engine up by running all sorts of different maps? Can you lean things out too much?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiB View Post
I use the LM-2 on my 919, just started. I log AFR obviously, RPM and TPS. Open the datalogs on the laptop and adjust the power commander at the same time. Its obviously not really fast, but its the next best thing to a dyno, and better than using random maps.
Cool, good to know. Where did you put the bung for the O2 sensor? The LM-2 sounds like a really good deal considering it comes with a sensor too.

Wallybanger is offline  
post #17 of 24 Old 05-24-2011, 12:07 PM
McTavish
 
mcromo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,655
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallybanger View Post
I'm running the map from the Two Brothers website.

Yep, just running regular gas

I'm at 350M (1150ft) AMSL

I haven't done any map compare and I honestly don't know what that is or how to do it.

Can you mess the engine up by running all sorts of different maps? Can you lean things out too much?
If one really leaned it out on an arbitrary basis at full power and stayed at full power, a hot exhaust valve would likely result, as in possibly burning it.

I suggest you at least try the LDH Mori v4 map.
I have it stored in both the original map format and the present day djm format that your PCIIIusb uses.
If you don't want the bother of getting the map and doing the file conversion (which the PowerCommander software easily does) send me a PM with an e mail address and I get it to you.

Map Compare is a feature within the PowerCommander software that lets you compare two maps on screen. A manual way of doing it is to simply print off the maps and eyeball the different fueling values, not as sophisticated, but does give one a handle on things.

Personally, I'd make sure I tried something different than a Two Brothers map, especially if its an old one, possibly even the M112-003.djm map. The point being, if the maps are as good as their stuff was back then, well, I won't say any more.

mcromo44 is offline  
post #18 of 24 Old 05-24-2011, 06:50 PM
The Cripple
 
Pvster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 8,768
Rep Power: 1
 
or you can try MY map : )

Pvster is offline  
post #19 of 24 Old 05-25-2011, 09:47 AM
Community Moderator
 
g00gl3it's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,614
Rep Power: 1
  

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
or you can try MY map : )
or,


you can try MY map ;-)

I'll even provide a LINK.

Don't worry Pvster, yours is in there too.

2009 Aprilia Tuono - Ginger
2001 XR650R BRP (Big Red Pig)
2006 Honda 599 - Ex wrecked it :-D
2007 Honda CB900F (sold)
2006 Honda VTX 1300C (sold)
YouTube Channel
g00gl3it is offline  
post #20 of 24 Old 05-25-2011, 03:01 PM
The Cripple
 
Pvster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 8,768
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
or,


you can try MY map ;-)

I'll even provide a LINK.

Don't worry Pvster, yours is in there too.

Pvster is offline  
post #21 of 24 Old 05-25-2011, 03:42 PM
Community Moderator
 
g00gl3it's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,614
Rep Power: 1
  

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 3

New link to maps as I've moved some stuff around in our dropbox folder and broke the link.

2009 Aprilia Tuono - Ginger
2001 XR650R BRP (Big Red Pig)
2006 Honda 599 - Ex wrecked it :-D
2007 Honda CB900F (sold)
2006 Honda VTX 1300C (sold)
YouTube Channel
g00gl3it is offline  
post #22 of 24 Old 05-25-2011, 04:46 PM Thread Starter
Carp Killer
 
Wallybanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 285
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
If one really leaned it out on an arbitrary basis at full power and stayed at full power, a hot exhaust valve would likely result, as in possibly burning it.

I suggest you at least try the LDH Mori v4 map.
I have it stored in both the original map format and the present day djm format that your PCIIIusb uses.
If you don't want the bother of getting the map and doing the file conversion (which the PowerCommander software easily does) send me a PM with an e mail address and I get it to you.

Map Compare is a feature within the PowerCommander software that lets you compare two maps on screen. A manual way of doing it is to simply print off the maps and eyeball the different fueling values, not as sophisticated, but does give one a handle on things.

Personally, I'd make sure I tried something different than a Two Brothers map, especially if its an old one, possibly even the M112-003.djm map. The point being, if the maps are as good as their stuff was back then, well, I won't say any more.
OK, I've downloaded a bunch of maps and I'll try a map compare. I don't see a 'LDH Mori v4' map anywhere in the stuff I've downloaded....

As for the quality of the 2-Bros stuff, I'm extremely happy with the build quality, fit & finish of the pipes I have.

Wallybanger is offline  
post #23 of 24 Old 05-25-2011, 05:25 PM
McTavish
 
mcromo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,655
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallybanger View Post
OK, I've downloaded a bunch of maps and I'll try a map compare. I don't see a 'LDH Mori v4' map anywhere in the stuff I've downloaded....

As for the quality of the 2-Bros stuff, I'm extremely happy with the build quality, fit & finish of the pipes I have.
Just sent you the maps you are looking for.

mcromo44 is offline  
post #24 of 24 Old 05-26-2011, 09:36 PM Thread Starter
Carp Killer
 
Wallybanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 285
Rep Power: 1
 
Got em, awesome, thanks.

Wallybanger is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wrist Twisters forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome