Died while running and I don't know why yet. Huh. - Wrist Twisters
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 24 Old 12-19-2015, 01:49 AM Thread Starter
Milites Gregarius
 
derpydog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Seattle
Posts: 159
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage
Died while running and I don't know why yet. Huh.

So I was riding up to see some friends when the new 919 suddenly died on me in traffic. It was raining and cold and I was stuck in some pretty shitty traffic, then all of a sudden, no throttle response, and I looked down to see the oil pressure light came on like it always does when the key is on but the bike isn't running. (Yes, I was so cold and annoyed at that point that the oil light and not the lack of vibration was what clued me in that the engine had just died on me.)

Tried to restart in the road, no dice. A nice stranger held up the other two lanes of traffic for long enough for me to push it across to the shoulder of an offramp, and also took me to the gas station to get some gas. (It wasn't out of gas. But I wasn't going to turn down the offer, just in case.)

So all the lights come on as normal. None of the fuses are blown. The fuel pump seems to be priming-- the FI light comes on with the key, then goes off a second or two after the killswitch is flipped to "run" just like normal. While holding down the starter, the engine kind of coughs and grumbles like it's trying to run, and I could occasionally see the tach get up to 500-1000rpm for a second, but it doesn't stay running. The minute I let go of the starter button, everything shuts back down.

I had a minor mishap while installing heated grips a couple weeks ago and melted some of my own wiring, but it didn't blow any fuses or cause any other damage. (I am not very talented at crimping connectors, i don't wanna talk about it lol.) And I'd ridden at least a hundred miles after that happened with no incident. The battery should be good, it took all my attempts at starting the bike like a champ. Bad ignition coil? Fueling problem? Come to think of it, I hadn't ridden this one in more than a light drizzle before tonight. What are the odds that it's a water-related electrical problem?

It's at a friend's shop now... gonna go look at it tomorrow. It's almost 2am here but this is keeping me up haha.

Fine, I'm adding a signature, leave me alone!
derpydog is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 24 Old 12-19-2015, 03:08 AM
Community Moderator
 
g00gl3it's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,622
Rep Power: 1
  

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 3

Well, I'm up because of pain from surgery, but I'll chime in for most folks here, it's probably (90% chance?) related to whatever you last did to the bike if it was working fine before you meddled with it. Any chance your wiring was in the headlight bucket? It could have gotten wet and shorted out.

2009 Aprilia Tuono - Ginger
2001 XR650R BRP (Big Red Pig)
2006 Honda 599 - Ex wrecked it :-D
2007 Honda CB900F (sold)
2006 Honda VTX 1300C (sold)
YouTube Channel
g00gl3it is offline  
post #3 of 24 Old 12-19-2015, 07:58 AM
(Quintus) Pilus Prior
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 2,302
Rep Power: 1
 
I'll add that wires can be damaged to the point they still work but don't provide the amperage needed. If you damaged some wires that go to something and the device is pulling too much amperage it can run for a while then damage the connection even more.

Also, doesn't cold weather cause weak connections to break, where they might have worked under warm conditions?

KarlJay is offline  
 
post #4 of 24 Old 12-19-2015, 07:04 PM Thread Starter
Milites Gregarius
 
derpydog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Seattle
Posts: 159
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage
Well, I was completely unable to replicate the problem today. Started right up.... Goddammit. One of the older techs thinks that it was cold enough last night that the lovely ethanol-laden fuel that we all love so much, might have separated and let water clog up the injectors. It fits the symptoms as well as anything, I guess. I'll throw some Startron in the tank and top it off with some ethanol-free gas and see if I can't get through a tank without a repeat incident.

Fine, I'm adding a signature, leave me alone!
derpydog is offline  
post #5 of 24 Old 12-19-2015, 07:15 PM
Tribunus Laticlavius
 
voodooridr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Salinas, CA
Posts: 4,618
Rep Power: 1
 
My vote would be the cheesy connections at the kill switch, cold (34) caused my starter switch to prevent the headlight from coming on


Dan
voodooridr is offline  
post #6 of 24 Old 12-20-2015, 09:09 AM
Princeps Prior
 
redline919's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 1,894
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by voodooridr View Post
My vote would be the cheesy connections at the kill switch, cold (34) caused my starter switch to prevent the headlight from coming on
This is why I never use my kill switch. Too many instances noted on this forum

redline919 is offline  
post #7 of 24 Old 12-20-2015, 01:03 PM
Le So Cal Troll
 
nd4spdbh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: So Cal
Posts: 5,766
Rep Power: 1
 
do you have a power commander OP?

nd4spdbh is offline  
post #8 of 24 Old 12-20-2015, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
Milites Gregarius
 
derpydog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Seattle
Posts: 159
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage
No power commander. Rode it around the block a little more just now, still unable to reproduce the problem I'll check the right-side controls, since I did have to take those off to install new bars and I'm not ruling out water causing an electrical problem, but the way it wouldn't start the other night really sounded more like a fueling issue.

Fine, I'm adding a signature, leave me alone!
derpydog is offline  
post #9 of 24 Old 12-20-2015, 02:05 PM
RIDE RED
 
SPYDER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Boone
Posts: 1,882
Rep Power: 1
 
Just throwing it out here but when my ignition pulse generator went out my bike would run for 15 minutes almost on the nose then die after the bike cooled it would fire right back up and run for another 15

SPYDER is offline  
post #10 of 24 Old 12-30-2015, 02:28 PM Thread Starter
Milites Gregarius
 
derpydog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Seattle
Posts: 159
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage
Happened again today. Got on the freeway, died about five minutes later. Wouldn't restart right after, but after getting it home (~90 minutes later) it will start and kind of idle badly for a few seconds then die, which makes me think whatever the problem is has to do with the bike warming up.

90% ruling out an electrical problem in the right side controls at this point since the killswitch and starter button work as they should and it fires right up when cold and runs great... for about twenty minutes. I hadn't gone for a real ride since two weeks ago when it died, just had it idling for a while and took it around the block, guess it didn't get warm enough for the problem to kick in and fooled me.

Fine, I'm adding a signature, leave me alone!
derpydog is offline  
post #11 of 24 Old 12-30-2015, 03:01 PM Thread Starter
Milites Gregarius
 
derpydog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Seattle
Posts: 159
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPYDER View Post
Just throwing it out here but when my ignition pulse generator went out my bike would run for 15 minutes almost on the nose then die after the bike cooled it would fire right back up and run for another 15
That's a contender now for sure.

Also the fuel pump priming noise sounds odd to me now. I remember it being 1-2 seconds of a steady mechanical whining noise and now it seems to switch tones halfway through. Been reading old threads on people's fuel pressure regulator problems, not sure if all my symptoms match but the tank does seem suspiciously empty for only having 90 miles since the last fillup.

When I got it off the truck it ran for a minute or so, long enough for me to ride it into the garage. FWIW it was cold but bone dry today so I don't think it's anything moisture/electrical related anymore.

Fine, I'm adding a signature, leave me alone!
derpydog is offline  
post #12 of 24 Old 01-01-2016, 12:25 PM
Community Moderator
 
g00gl3it's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,622
Rep Power: 1
  

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 3

The change in sound in the fuel pump is a good indicator that it's fouled or failing. I would look there as your culprit, we have another thread somewhere where the symptoms were very close to those you are describing.

2009 Aprilia Tuono - Ginger
2001 XR650R BRP (Big Red Pig)
2006 Honda 599 - Ex wrecked it :-D
2007 Honda CB900F (sold)
2006 Honda VTX 1300C (sold)
YouTube Channel
g00gl3it is offline  
post #13 of 24 Old 01-01-2016, 09:44 PM
RIDE RED
 
SPYDER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Boone
Posts: 1,882
Rep Power: 1
 
Pull codes if any and go from there

SPYDER is offline  
post #14 of 24 Old 01-02-2016, 01:02 AM
Milites Gregarius
 
captainchadl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 180
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by redline919 View Post
This is why I never use my kill switch. Too many instances noted on this forum
Sorry for the repost, but I was using my phone and I was trying to " ".

I had this happen 3 months ago, so I packed the connector with dielectric grease after cleaning the housing up real good. It has been good since.

captainchadl is offline  
post #15 of 24 Old 01-04-2016, 02:52 PM
(Quintus) Pilus Prior
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 2,302
Rep Power: 1
 
There should be a spot to check the condition of the kill switch. I've never taken one apart on the 919, but they do tend to get moisture and dirt in there.

One option might be to carry a test light with you. Harbor Freight has a good one for dirt cheap, just find a few spots where you can check where the break is.

KarlJay is offline  
post #16 of 24 Old 01-13-2016, 02:49 PM Thread Starter
Milites Gregarius
 
derpydog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Seattle
Posts: 159
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage
Just started getting into it today, after the post-holidays/New Years lack of motivation.

FI code showed two blinks, which is a MAP vacuum issue. Manual says the failure mode is "bike operates normally," which is technically true, until it dies while running. So that might be part of it, and I'll put a vacuum gauge on it to check, but I don't think it's the cause.

Took the fuel pump assembly out and popped the filter off. Shot some compressed air through and some brown-black colored gas spatters came out but it doesn't seem obstructed (then again, the air psi may be higher than the bike's fuel psi.)

There was definitely less than half a gallon of gas sloshing around in the tank when I took it off, and my last fillup was 90 miles ago, so even accounting for some idling time when I was trying to get it to die, that's incredibly poor mileage. #2 spark plug doesn't look any different from #1 spark plug, but it's mostly been parked since the first dying incident so possibly hasn't had a chance to really foul out the plugs. Is there a visual indication of a bad FPR? I believe the test for it in the manual needs the bike running so I'll probably get a new fuel filter first before I pop the fuel pump back in the tank, just to eliminate that as a factor.

Fine, I'm adding a signature, leave me alone!
derpydog is offline  
post #17 of 24 Old 01-13-2016, 03:38 PM
RIDE RED
 
SPYDER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Boone
Posts: 1,882
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by derpydog View Post
Just started getting into it today, after the post-holidays/New Years lack of motivation. FI code showed two blinks, which is a MAP vacuum issue. Manual says the failure mode is "bike operates normally," which is technically true, until it dies while running. So that might be part of it, and I'll put a vacuum gauge on it to check, but I don't think it's the cause. Took the fuel pump assembly out and popped the filter off. Shot some compressed air through and some brown-black colored gas spatters came out but it doesn't seem obstructed (then again, the air psi may be higher than the bike's fuel psi.) There was definitely less than half a gallon of gas sloshing around in the tank when I took it off, and my last fillup was 90 miles ago, so even accounting for some idling time when I was trying to get it to die, that's incredibly poor mileage. #2 spark plug doesn't look any different from #1 spark plug, but it's mostly been parked since the first dying incident so possibly hasn't had a chance to really foul out the plugs. Is there a visual indication of a bad FPR? I believe the test for it in the manual needs the bike running so I'll probably get a new fuel filter first before I pop the fuel pump back in the tank, just to eliminate that as a factor.
Is there fuel or smell of fuel in the vacuum line on your fpr?if so it has most likely failed

SPYDER is offline  
post #18 of 24 Old 04-23-2016, 10:16 PM Thread Starter
Milites Gregarius
 
derpydog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Seattle
Posts: 159
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage
Oh boy, it's been a while. Well, I ended up replacing the in-tank fuel filter and the FPR, even though all four spark plugs looked the same and there was no fuel in the vacuum lines or any of the other classic bad FPR symptoms per this forum. Then life happened, I found a great deal on an NX250 which is a bike I'd been low key chasing for two years so I was riding that a bunch, I bought a house, blah blah the 919 sat in my new garage for a couple months. Nicer weather came around and I realized me and my bad shoulder and my case of the squirrelies post-crash had to get in shape for track season, so I started riding the 919 again. It ran perfectly for a week of commuting and then goddamnmotherfuckingshitbiscuits! died on me on my way home. No gas smell, no FI codes, fuel pump priming sound is odd and it cranks but seems like it never quite gets enough gas to get running-- as it cooled down it would idle erratically for a few seconds at a time, and I bet tomorrow morning when it's cold it'll start up again. But at the same time I'm about ready to believe at this point that I'm just stupid and the gas light doesn't work and I'm just running it out of gas. ARGH.

Fine, I'm adding a signature, leave me alone!
derpydog is offline  
post #19 of 24 Old 04-24-2016, 07:40 AM
Princeps Prior
 
redline919's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 1,894
Rep Power: 1
 
Have you checked your battery for proper voltage and make sure the connections are tight? Mine acted this way and it was a loose ground to the battery. Which I've had to tighten at least 3 times over the years from vibes and wheelies I suppose. Either that or a bad fuel pump. Check the wires going to the pump for damage also.

redline919 is offline  
post #20 of 24 Old 04-24-2016, 08:08 AM
RIDE RED
 
SPYDER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Boone
Posts: 1,882
Rep Power: 1
 
If it runs until it get warmed up then dies. My money is on the ignition pulse generator. That's what was wrong with mine last season. My FI light didn't start blinking until one time after it died I tried to crank it up again. The IPG is on the throttle side of the engine it attaches to the timing cover. If I remember right it was +\-$50 from partzilla. You'll probably want to get a new gasket too. There are institutions in the manual on how to test the IPG. If you don't have a manual there's a digital copy on here somewhere or I could snap a pic for you. The IPG on my bike pasted when it was cold but failed after warming up.

SPYDER is offline  
post #21 of 24 Old 04-24-2016, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
Milites Gregarius
 
derpydog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Seattle
Posts: 159
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage
I haven't tested the battery itself but the connections are tight, and I think I checked the ground when I was last in there but I don't remember now. Each time it's died it'll crank for as long as I care to try with no sign of the battery getting weak, and I remember from my previous 919 that when the battery was on its way out it would kind of hunt for a good idle speed and this one idles dead smooth at 1200 so I've been operating under the assumption that the battery isn't the root cause.

I do have a manual. The infuriating thing is that it's so erratic-- it ran fine for a week of commuting before it died this time, and it was on my way home with no traffic so the engine wasn't even approaching hot. I'll have to test the IPG next week when I can bring my multimeter home from work.

Fine, I'm adding a signature, leave me alone!
derpydog is offline  
post #22 of 24 Old 04-24-2016, 05:25 PM
Tesserarius
 
nathanktm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Floral Park
Posts: 702
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 6

My bike will die with 1/2 to 3/4 galllons of gas left. When my fuel pump runs out of fuel, it will sound a lot more "grindy." Are you 100% sure that you are not running it out of gas? Maybe your low fuel indicator light is dead. You'd be lucky if it was something that simple. As they say, always start with the easiest problem to fix.

nathanktm is offline  
post #23 of 24 Old 04-27-2016, 08:31 PM Thread Starter
Milites Gregarius
 
derpydog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Seattle
Posts: 159
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanktm View Post
My bike will die with 1/2 to 3/4 galllons of gas left. When my fuel pump runs out of fuel, it will sound a lot more "grindy." Are you 100% sure that you are not running it out of gas? Maybe your low fuel indicator light is dead. You'd be lucky if it was something that simple. As they say, always start with the easiest problem to fix.
The first time this happened I had 80-something miles on the trip odometer, and historically I'm more likely to forget to reset that at a gas stop than I am to accidentally reset it in the middle of a tank. I also had a kind stranger stop and take me to a gas station, and I got about a half gallon to put in the tank and it didn't make a difference. So I was almost certain it wasn't a simple running out of gas, plus the fact that it'll start up seemingly fine if I leave it overnight. But you're right, the simplest explanation is usually best. Maybe a combination of the fuel getting low enough and the bike being warmed up...?

Fine, I'm adding a signature, leave me alone!
derpydog is offline  
post #24 of 24 Old 04-28-2016, 03:44 AM
Tesserarius
 
nathanktm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Floral Park
Posts: 702
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 6

Well if your pump truly is making that noise, either the pump itself is failing, or something else is causing issues with fuel getting to the pump. I don't think you should be seeing brown-black spatters coming out of the fuel pump. That's leading me to think bad gas is a possibility. Water will typically sink below the fuel since it's more dense, so perhaps you have a little bit sitting at the bottom of the tank. It'll get shook up during the ride, and mix with the gas causing the sputtering/stalling. Letting it sit will have it settle back at the bottom of the tank below the fuel pickup, and eventually the pump picks up the fuel again. Not sure how long that 919 was sitting for before you started riding it. People typically have issues with gas going bad after leaving their bike to sit the whole winter. If you emptied the tank out and had only fresh gas in there and it STILL stalled out, and you are 100% certain you had enough gas that the bike wasn't starving, then my guess would be that the pump might have an issue. Just throwing out ideas

nathanktm is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wrist Twisters forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome