Cylinder 1 not firing... - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 13 Old 09-25-2009, 01:12 PM Thread Starter
 
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Cylinder 1 not firing...

Hello,

I have a few problems with my 919 that the search couldn't help me with. I recently sold the bike to a friend and I am now currently fixing it up to give to him. The bike hasn't been ridden in 2-3 years. After replacing the battery I attempted to start it without any success. I was leaking a lot of fuel and the problem turns out to be a faulty fuel pressure regulator. A tear in the diaphragm has pulling fuel into cylinder 2 and 3 via the vacuum lines so the fuel rail wasn't pressurizing. I have repaired that problem but the bike still will not fire, at least not correctly. If I crank it and turn the throttle a little it will sputter and run rough. If I let go of the throttle it will die instantly. It sounds as if it isn't running on all pistons so I checked for spark. After pulling the plugs they all sparked just fine although cylinder one did look dry. I attempted to start again and this time removing the wires to each injector. I narrowed it down to cylinder one's injector is not functioning. So my question is..

How do you test an injector?

Can you check voltage going to the injector(as it only fires for a fraction of a second I'm not sure my digital multi meter will read it)??

Could it be the ecu??

If so how would you test the ecu??

Thanks in advanced..

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post #2 of 13 Old 09-25-2009, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWTCORRADO View Post
Can you check voltage going to the injector(as it only fires for a fraction of a second I'm not sure my digital multi meter will read it)??
I'm not a mechanic, but seeing this would require some sort of oscilloscope. I'll bet you'd need a special sort of high-voltage probe to measure the inputs into the spark plugs, but the injector signals are probably straightforward.

Then it would just be a matter of measuring the voltage at the injector and, if there's nothing there, measuring it at the ECU to distinguish between a faulty ECU or bad cable.

BUT, neither the ECU nor the cable is likely to deteriorate from lack of use, so I think it's likelier that you'll discover you either have an injector that's stuck closed, or the electrical contacts need to be cleaned.

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post #3 of 13 Old 09-25-2009, 02:04 PM
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correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you could test for a bad injector by switching the injector with another one that is easy to get to and known to be working (say cylinder 2 or 4)

If the problem follows the suspect injector, then you know it's bad. If the problem stays at the same location, the injector is good and you will need to start tracing wires.

EDIT: You will probably need to depressurize the fuel rail before attempting this.

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post #4 of 13 Old 09-25-2009, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmurphy84 View Post
correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you could test for a bad injector by switching the injector with another one that is easy to get to and known to be working (say cylinder 2 or 4)

If the problem follows the suspect injector, then you know it's bad. If the problem stays at the same location, the injector is good and you will need to start tracing wires.

Ahhh, good one. That would eliminate the need to check for voltage... If it does turn out that cylinder one injector is just stuck do you have to replace it or can it be cleaned and repaired?

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post #5 of 13 Old 09-25-2009, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWTCORRADO View Post
Ahhh, good one. That would eliminate the need to check for voltage... If it does turn out that cylinder one injector is just stuck do you have to replace it or can it be cleaned and repaired?
I'm sure you can have them cleaned, but I don't know that I wouldn't just replace it. If it wasn't too expensive, I may replace them all.

EDIT: The injectors look like they are about $147 each. from servicehonda.com

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post #6 of 13 Old 09-25-2009, 04:47 PM
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A bigger concern is that the bike was stored on it's sidestand and then you guys were trying to start it on the sidestand as well.

Maybe you completely filled cylinder 1 with gas and bent a rod? Maybe you have a bent or stuck valve in that first cylinder?

Jeff
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post #7 of 13 Old 09-25-2009, 05:30 PM Thread Starter
 
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A bigger concern is that the bike was stored on it's sidestand and then you guys were trying to start it on the sidestand as well.

Maybe you completely filled cylinder 1 with gas and bent a rod? Maybe you have a bent or stuck valve in that first cylinder?
I was concerned that I hydrolocked it. And I didn't come to that realization until after all the other repairs were done. I had someone else in the shop come over and have a listen and they didn't think it was a bent rod, just a missing cylinder fire. So that's were the cylinder diagnosing began. I sounds pretty jacked right now and if its still really rough after I get the injector situation sorted I'll start looking at the con rods.

Please, oh please, let the con rods be ok .

On the plus side only the #2 and 3 cylinder have the ability to fill with gas when the pressure reg fails and it appears that my issues lay within #1 so fingers crossed it just a injector issue.

So I go to pull the fuel rail and low and behold its a pain in the a$$. There's 3 bolts and the middle can only be accessed by removing the air box. I've stared at the damn air box for an hour now and it looks near impossible without disassembling half the bike.

-Has anyone removed the air box??
-Is there any tips or how to's on the inter web??

I could just go at it with tool in hand but I'd much rather attack it with a battle plan.

Cheers, for any help:001_smile:

Dan

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post #8 of 13 Old 09-25-2009, 09:07 PM
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don't get too excited
it's a Honda. That's a huge one in your favor. The engine is not damaged for Pete's sake.
bikes don't like to sit, especially with all the damn corn in the fuel nowadays, it really turns to shiit. (oh, sorry hall monitors....I meant poopy)
Take that bad injector out, blip the terminals a few times with a AA battery or a 3v lithium (DON'T use 12 volts), soak it in kerosene overnight (or carb cleaner or Stabil), dry it off, and blip the terminals again. If it's bad anyways, you've got nothing to lose. It will probably come back. Don't hit it with a hammer (we save that trick for seized fuel pumps ) but tap it on the bench a few times as a last resort.
An injector is like a solenoid. It can get stuck. If blipping it with a AA makes a clicking sound, go ahead and blow through it backwards with the air hose (watch your eyes!)
You can take a reading in ohms, it should be somewhere around 12.
Worst case scenario, send me a pic of it. If it matches some of the other Honda injectors I have, you can have one. Don't go buying four new ones. That's rediculous.
Once you get the bike going, add some Stabil as per the instructions the way you should've when you parked it and run it for a while. This will help clean the others.

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post #9 of 13 Old 09-25-2009, 09:15 PM
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My brother in law just bought a vtx1800 that had been sitting. One of its injectors was stuck open and fuel was actually dripping out the tail pipe!

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post #10 of 13 Old 09-25-2009, 09:35 PM
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you could always just put "triumph" on the side of the tank...




i'm just saying...



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post #11 of 13 Old 09-26-2009, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barton664 View Post
you could always just put "triumph" on the side of the tank...




i'm just saying...

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post #12 of 13 Old 09-26-2009, 12:43 PM
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One of the first things you should of done is secure yourself a copy of the factory service manual. It will save you alot of headache's and time. Ebay is your friend.

Professional
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post #13 of 13 Old 10-04-2009, 07:42 PM
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Any update on this?

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