Coolant Temp higher than normally experienced. - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 156 Old 06-04-2013, 04:37 PM Thread Starter
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Long story short, I am troubleshooting a cooling issue, need a little input on order of operations.

After purchasing bike, and up until this spring, (noticed climbing temps a couple months ago) bikes needle would always run at halfway point between c and h, if very hot day, fan would kick on at halfway, or slightly above, then would stay there.

Recently it has been climbing higher and higher. On a particularly hot day a few days ago, temp gauge went all the way up to red, and crept ever so slightly into it.

The next day I gave the radiator a serious clean with dish detergent, while warm, not hot, then rinsed with slightly "vigorous" stream from back of radiator, till runoff was clear, and not bubbly. Radiator looks way less black/dirty, and now temps are still climbing a bit, but have seemed to level off with fan running, around 3/4 up.

Before radiator cleaning, about 1-2 months prior, when doing an oil change, I also drained and replaced coolant. I did not siphon off the reservoir s, but next time I will.

Before radiator cleaning, I also checked my fluid levels, it did need a bit of oil, about, half a quart. Coolant level was just about right.

2 questions.

1. At what point as far as lack of oil, do you dip into the danger zone; damaging the engine? Seems people say as long as your not completely dry, it should be cool, but curious to hear anyone's thoughts.

2. Assuming engine is OK, what should I look at next to try to get temps back to what I assume is nominal: 1/2 gauge in hot as heck conditions?

My thoughts were thermostat replacement, test, then fan motor/fan, then radiator.

I don't want to bring the bike to mechanic to diagnose, unless absolutely necessary.

Any help/thoughts greatly appreciated.

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post #2 of 156 Old 06-04-2013, 05:10 PM
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How many miles on the meter?

1) I believe if you're on or above the bottom line at the level window you're good. Halfway mark to full is ideal.

2) Did you burp the system? Some say it should do it on its own and you should just watch the reservoir level but you're better off not chancing pockets of air. When you refill your system, pour the coolant in SLOWLY. Throw some high-temp (baking) gloves on and get a piece of rubber to roll up. Fit the rubber over the radiator opening and fire her up to operating temps. You might want to put a towel around the cap to catch and spills. Bleep the motor a bunch to get any air out of the system, you'll see the bubbles like farting in a swimming pool. Once that's stopped and while the level is at the neck (fill it up if you need to), cap it. Put the tank back down and test her out. I assume you're using the correct premixed stuff (silicate-free) and if not premixed, you're using distilled water to mix with.

THEN try your thermostat, fan, and radiator. Not to mention water pump but that's probably a mileage thing unless you have premature failure.

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post #3 of 156 Old 06-04-2013, 06:52 PM
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+1 a big towel around the filler neck, because when she burps it makes a BIG mess. As for siphoning, you can use air pressure instead

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post #4 of 156 Old 06-04-2013, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewebay1 View Post
How many miles on the meter?

1) I believe if you're on or above the bottom line at the level window you're good. Halfway mark to full is ideal.

2) Did you burp the system? Some say it should do it on its own and you should just watch the reservoir level but you're better off not chancing pockets of air. When you refill your system, pour the coolant in SLOWLY. Throw some high-temp (baking) gloves on and get a piece of rubber to roll up. Fit the rubber over the radiator opening and fire her up to operating temps. You might want to put a towel around the cap to catch and spills. Bleep the motor a bunch to get any air out of the system, you'll see the bubbles like farting in a swimming pool. Once that's stopped and while the level is at the neck (fill it up if you need to), cap it. Put the tank back down and test her out. I assume you're using the correct premixed stuff (silicate-free) and if not premixed, you're using distilled water to mix with.

THEN try your thermostat, fan, and radiator. Not to mention water pump but that's probably a mileage thing unless you have premature failure.
I just cleared 30 k.

I did not burp the system, or rather, I don't believe the system was burped. I watched the process, and I don't think that was done, I could be wrong though.

I'm right at 3000 miles since last oil change, so when i do the oil i will also flush coolant and make sure it is burped.

Where does water pump go in that list? What are the things lifespans?

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post #5 of 156 Old 06-04-2013, 06:57 PM
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I used a spray bottle to get the old reservoir fluid out.

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post #6 of 156 Old 06-04-2013, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewebay1 View Post
How many miles on the meter?

1) I believe if you're on or above the bottom line at the level window you're good. Halfway mark to full is ideal.

2) Did you burp the system? Some say it should do it on its own and you should just watch the reservoir level but you're better off not chancing pockets of air. When you refill your system, pour the coolant in SLOWLY. Throw some high-temp (baking) gloves on and get a piece of rubber to roll up. Fit the rubber over the radiator opening and fire her up to operating temps. You might want to put a towel around the cap to catch and spills. Bleep the motor a bunch to get any air out of the system, you'll see the bubbles like farting in a swimming pool. Once that's stopped and while the level is at the neck (fill it up if you need to), cap it. Put the tank back down and test her out. I assume you're using the correct premixed stuff (silicate-free) and if not premixed, you're using distilled water to mix with.

THEN try your thermostat, fan, and radiator. Not to mention water pump but that's probably a mileage thing unless you have premature failure.
+1 on the above. Make sure you are full at the radiator cap under the tank. If you are riding in stop n go traffic a lot the temps are gonna climb, but usually not over 3/4, the fan should kick on and pull it down pretty quickly. On the highway the temps should stay low.

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post #7 of 156 Old 06-04-2013, 07:50 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marylandmike View Post

+1 on the above. Make sure you are full at the radiator cap under the tank. If you are riding in stop n go traffic a lot the temps are gonna climb, but usually not over 3/4, the fan should kick on and pull it down pretty quickly. On the highway the temps should stay low.
Going to do this tomorrow. Thanks a eBay , mm. If this fails to alleviate issues, my list of parts to replace in order of cost effectiveness/likelihood of cause would be,

1.thermostat
2. Fan (don't think this is it though, sounds very strong.)
3.radiator
4. Water pump ?

Yes/ no?

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post #8 of 156 Old 06-04-2013, 08:20 PM
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All this sounds dangerous to me


I'm thinkin you just got a sticky thermostat, change it and avoid losing skin

If I gotta go at my bike with oven gloves it's time to rethink a few things, but that's just me.....be careful and wear your PPE

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post #9 of 156 Old 06-04-2013, 08:41 PM
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It's just a precaution, if you pour the coolant slowly you shouldn't have massive air pockets to throw a bunch of hot coolant out.

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post #10 of 156 Old 06-04-2013, 08:55 PM
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One of the good things about the 919 is that it is very serviceable. The thermostat, ect sensor, and water pump are all easily accessible.
When you look at the radiator cap make sure it was put on correctly and is tight. When you take it off the coolant level should be right up to the neck. If the coolant is low then it may not have been filled correctly last time. And i never found a reason to burp anything. There is a vent hole in the thermostat so air tends to escape as you patiently fill the radiator. Just run it for a minute then take the cap off and top it off. Doing that once or twice has always been sufficient for me.
And removing and testing the thermostat on the stove with a thermometer is pretty effective. Instructions in the service manual are good. Thermostat should start to open ~ 180F and be fully open at 203F. I checked mine 2 years ago when i thought it was running too cool (as compared to my hot running VFR - LOL).
I've had a water pump fail in a car (broken impeller shaft) and i'm sure it can happen in the 919. And it's easy to inspect in the 919.
But the 919 tends to run cool so you should find something.

Good luck!

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post #11 of 156 Old 06-04-2013, 09:07 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiplash97 View Post
All this sounds dangerous to me

I'm thinkin you just got a sticky thermostat, change it and avoid losing skin

If I gotta go at my bike with oven gloves it's time to rethink a few things, but that's just me.....be careful and wear your PPE
Is replacing the thermostat difficult? As i understand it, its just draining coolant, two bolts off, replace, back on, coolant in, bam. But if I have to put new coolant in, I might as well learn the burp first, as I will have to do it when I replace coolant again, yes?

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post #12 of 156 Old 06-04-2013, 09:17 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark919 View Post
And i never found a reason to burp anything. There is a vent hole in the thermostat so air tends to escape as you patiently fill the radiator. Just run it for a minute then take the cap off and top it off. Doing that once or twice has always been sufficient for me.
And removing and testing the thermostat on the stove with a thermometer is pretty effective. Instructions in the service manual are good.
Is this good enough? Opinions?

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post #13 of 156 Old 06-04-2013, 09:29 PM
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Your temp gauge is an overall temp. It can't tell you if parts of your engine is getting cooked because coolant can't get to the metal where an air pocket is.

Not for me no sir. YMMV, but since you're already cooking...

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post #14 of 156 Old 06-04-2013, 09:35 PM
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It's all I've ever done also, fill it fire it up for a 30 count shut it down top off and I'm done, it's always worked in the past

Thermo replacement is a snap if you can get to it, mine is buried under the tank, air box, FI and wiring but it sounds like yours would be much easier

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post #15 of 156 Old 06-04-2013, 09:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewebay1 View Post
Your temp gauge is an overall temp. It can't tell you if parts of your engine is getting cooked because coolant can't get to the metal where an air pocket is.

Not for me no sir. YMMV, but since you're already cooking...
K I need to learn proper way anyhoo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiplash97 View Post
It's all I've ever done also, fill it fire it up for a 30 count shut it down top off and I'm done, it's always worked in the past

Thermo replacement is a snap if you can get to it, mine is buried under the tank, air box, FI and wiring but it sounds like yours would be much easier
Ya if I'm not mistaken this is the housing, right at your right knee. easy peezy.



ForumRunner_20130604_214252.jpg



Its not too pricey so I'll order one/check if avail locally. When i pull the old i will test to see if ok, but seems like the sort of thing that would be the culprit. Replace and burp correctly.

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post #16 of 156 Old 06-04-2013, 09:56 PM
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Cool, waiting for the outcome

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post #17 of 156 Old 06-04-2013, 10:39 PM
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if you are having cooling issues.


1. Clean the actual surface of the rad, bees, bugs, small dogs get caught in the fins.

2. Drain n Flush.... Drain the coolant and reservoir. Use distilled water (99 cents a gallon at the market, buy 3 of em). Fill the cooling system with pure distilled water till you cant fill no more. LEAVE CAP OFF, start engine, let run for 30 secs. Shut off, Fill again to the top of the neck. Put cap back on. Put tank on, Start her back up, ride till she is fully warmed up.

Drain the distilled water, and refill again with distilled water (TWO FLUSHES) and follow the same procedure again. After the second flush, drain, and fill with coolant. If you want to get fancy use some of that distilled water to dilute coolant down to ~ 75% water 25% coolant for better cooling efficiency, Make sure to fill the resivoir with the same dilution of coolant.

RIDE, come back n let cool, check coolant level, top off if necessary.

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post #18 of 156 Old 06-04-2013, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
1. Clean the actual surface of the rad, bees, bugs, small dogs get caught in the fins.
Funny you mention this, I just chase an entire family of raccoons out of mine

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post #19 of 156 Old 06-04-2013, 11:51 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
if you are having cooling issues.

1. Clean the actual surface of the rad, bees, bugs, small dogs get caught in the fins.

2. Drain n Flush.... Drain the coolant and reservoir. Use distilled water (99 cents a gallon at the market, buy 3 of em). Fill the cooling system with pure distilled water till you cant fill no more. LEAVE CAP OFF, start engine, let run for 30 secs. Shut off, Fill again to the top of the neck. Put cap back on. Put tank on, Start her back up, ride till she is fully warmed up.

Drain the distilled water, and refill again with distilled water (TWO FLUSHES) and follow the same procedure again. After the second flush, drain, and fill with coolant. If you want to get fancy use some of that distilled water to dilute coolant down to ~ 75% water 25% coolant for better cooling efficiency, Make sure to fill the resivoir with the same dilution of coolant.

RIDE, come back n let cool, check coolant level, top off if necessary.
Aforementioned in first post, solid cleaning of radiator has been performed.

Your drain and flush sounds legit too. I should have had it done before, not sure why it wasn't.

Anyhoo, went for a ride to a shell station for a MPChallenge, roughly 8 miles, its night, and temp is 61 degrees F. Temp Gauge reaches middle about 4 miles in and stays there, with fan running after reaching gas station.

Left the fan running, key in and on, with kickstand down, and watched the needle. Rose to about 3/4 even tho engine ain't running and fan is on.

This may sound like a stupid observation, but left side of radiator is significantly cooler than right, right after shutting off bike. I could keep my hand on it, but right side would burn after a couple seconds. Middle section on fins, with guard in place wasn't that hot either.

Not sure if that is significant.

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post #20 of 156 Old 06-05-2013, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
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Aforementioned in first post, solid cleaning of radiator has been performed.

Your drain and flush sounds legit too. I should have had it done before, not sure why it wasn't.

Anyhoo, went for a ride to a shell station for a MPChallenge, roughly 8 miles, its night, and temp is 61 degrees F. Temp Gauge reaches middle about 4 miles in and stays there, with fan running after reaching gas station.

Left the fan running, key in and on, with kickstand down, and watched the needle. Rose to about 3/4 even tho engine ain't running and fan is on.

This may sound like a stupid observation, but left side of radiator is significantly cooler than right, right after shutting off bike. I could keep my hand on it, but right side would burn after a couple seconds. Middle section on fins, with guard in place wasn't that hot either.

Not sure if that is significant.
Omg! That means its.......oh nevermind I have no idea why it would do that

Clogged radiator?
Bad thermostat?
Water pump?

Hmm...the rad. Should be equal temp all over if coolant is circulating properly....when you start it with the rad. Cap off can you see the coolant moving? tap the throttle a little does it move at all?

:buell:
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post #21 of 156 Old 06-05-2013, 10:20 AM
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Left side will be cooler than the right ... Hot coolant enters the right and goes through the fins out on the right.

In 61 *f temps while riding the temp gauge should be right at the lil notch in the line just above the C ... Do a full flush of the system like I mentioned above. But before you drain the coolant out pull the tank up and pop the radiator cap off ... I bet the cooling system isn't anywhere close to full.

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post #22 of 156 Old 06-05-2013, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
Left side will be cooler than the right ... Hot coolant enters the right and goes through the fins out on the right.

In 61 *f temps while riding the temp gauge should be right at the lil notch in the line just above the C ... Do a full flush of the system like I mentioned above. But before you drain the coolant out pull the tank up and pop the radiator cap off ... I bet the cooling system isn't anywhere close to full.
Will do, will check the level after errands.

Also, I figured that would be the reason. Normal operatiin, hot in cool out. That's why I prefaced with "this may be a stupid operation" lol

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post #23 of 156 Old 06-05-2013, 01:19 PM Thread Starter
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Out of curiosity, could someone give me a brief summary of what the thermostat does on our bikes? Wikipedia on automotive thermostats talks about wax balls and regulating coolant flow.

How do ours operate, and what does "sticking open" refer to, and/or what is not working right when they are in that state or broken?

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post #24 of 156 Old 06-05-2013, 01:28 PM
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Thermostats stay closed to stop coolant flow and allow the engine to get up to operating temps. Once it reaches its temperature rating, it will open and allow coolant to flow. This should keep the engine in its sweet spot (right above the first line on the gauge). You can get thermostats at different temp ratings.

When a thermometer sticks open, it just lets coolant constantly flow which doesn't allow an engine to get to its optimal operating temps. There's another thread now that has my interest in regards to engine operating temps and less stink. MMike stuck a higher temp thermostat and it lessened the stink. Rumor has it, the 919 is running cooler than it should be out of the factory.

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post #25 of 156 Old 06-05-2013, 01:37 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Thermostats stay closed to stop coolant flow and allow the engine to get up to operating temps. Once it reaches its temperature rating, it will open and allow coolant to flow. This should keep the engine in its sweet spot (right above the first line on the gauge). You can get thermostats at different temp ratings.

When a thermometer sticks open, it just lets coolant constantly flow which doesn't allow an engine to get to its optimal operating temps. There's another thread now that has my interest in regards to engine operating temps and less stink. MMike stuck a higher temp thermostat and it lessened the stink. Rumor has it, the 919 is running cooler than it should be out of the factory.
This one?

https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...tor-30784.html

Is the inverse possible, has anyone experienced it where a thermostat is sticking halfway open, or halfway closed (same diff i guess) where after reaching good operating temps, it is not allowing the correct or full amount of coolant to flow, restricting flow?

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post #26 of 156 Old 06-05-2013, 01:43 PM
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https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...tml#post555149

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post #27 of 156 Old 06-05-2013, 02:04 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Interesting thread, definitely, although i have a hard time grasping engineering related discussions at times, my pyramid of knowledge in mechanical and electrical is far shorter that most others' on here i am sure. More often than not it goes right over my head.

Though if you could Andrew, is the inverse possible on a failed thermostat? "Sticking closed", or halfway so?

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post #28 of 156 Old 06-05-2013, 02:04 PM
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i bet its just air in the system... that plays havok on cooling system efficiency...

Thermostats can go bad and not open properly so that is not out of the realm... but like said, i bet if you open up the radiator cap the coolant level will not be to the top.

Or it just needs a good flush like i said above.

With the 919 use the KISS method at ALL times.... thats Keep It Simple Stupid! haha.

Not much goes wrong on these bikes outside of the rare Fuel Pressure Regulator Failure..... honestly never heard of a bad tstat on a 919

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post #29 of 156 Old 06-05-2013, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
i bet its just air in the system... that plays havok on cooling system efficiency...

Thermostats can go bad and not open properly so that is not out of the realm... but like said, i bet if you open up the radiator cap the coolant level will not be to the top.

Or it just needs a good flush like i said above.

With the 919 use the KISS method at ALL times.... thats Keep It Simple Stupid! haha.

Not much goes wrong on these bikes outside of the rare Fuel Pressure Regulator Failure..... honestly never heard of a bad tstat on a 919
Going downstairs with tools now. Reporting findings on levels.

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post #30 of 156 Old 06-05-2013, 02:24 PM
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As I said before pull the cap and start it to see if you can see the fluid moving, you might have to warm it up first and be carful removeing the cap

No coolant moving up/down or swirling around means bad water pump

:buell:
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post #31 of 156 Old 06-05-2013, 02:25 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
Left side will be cooler than the right ... Hot coolant enters the right and goes through the fins out on the right.

In 61 *f temps while riding the temp gauge should be right at the lil notch in the line just above the C ... Do a full flush of the system like I mentioned above. But before you drain the coolant out pull the tank up and pop the radiator cap off ... I bet the cooling system isn't anywhere close to full.
Not full eh? It should go all the way up to the very very top right?

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post #32 of 156 Old 06-05-2013, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
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post #33 of 156 Old 06-05-2013, 02:45 PM Thread Starter
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Well I added a bit, but not much at all, just I tiny tiny bit.

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post #34 of 156 Old 06-05-2013, 02:53 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiplash97 View Post
As I said before pull the cap and start it to see if you can see the fluid moving, you might have to warm it up first and be carful removeing the cap

No coolant moving up/down or swirling around means bad water pump
Started it up with cap off, after topping off coolant to the very top without spilling any, and after a few seconds running coolant came up and started spilling out. Maybe just about the quantity I put in.

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post #35 of 156 Old 06-05-2013, 02:55 PM
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Did you burp the system? Get a piece of rubber and extend the opening from the neck.

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post #36 of 156 Old 06-05-2013, 03:00 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewebay1 View Post
Did you burp the system? Get a piece of rubber and extend the opening from the neck.
I don't have anythimg handy like that at the moment, but i can get like, something. How much should I hit the throttle RpMs wise?

Can you recommend something household i can by to increase the neck length?

I am gonna go to a movie with friend in a bit, but we'll swing by a ralphs and i will grab distilled water and maybe something rubberyly appropriate, then enough coolant mix from the Honda dealer. Ill try burping the system and do this all proper.

Just not sure what to get, nor where to get a bit of rolled up rubber.

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post #37 of 156 Old 06-05-2013, 03:25 PM
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as it's running, tip the bike side to side slowly,and hold it in place for a few seconds. Get off the bike and support it with your leg, but get it down as far as you can. This really helps burp bubbles out of my T, might help with the 9'er.

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post #38 of 156 Old 06-05-2013, 03:30 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
as it's running, tip the bike side to side slowly,and hold it in place for a few seconds. Get off the bike and support it with your leg, but get it down as far as you can. This really helps burp bubbles out of my T, might help with the 9'er.
Won't that spill shit liters of coolant out of the filler neck?

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post #39 of 156 Old 06-05-2013, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
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Won't that spill shit liters of coolant out of the filler neck?
Put the cap on first, of course . Then top it off and repeat a few times.

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post #40 of 156 Old 06-05-2013, 04:17 PM
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hmm, if there wasnt much air, i would just flush the system. Could be old coolant that has lost some of its water.

Honestly like said the 919 doesnt trap air all that bad when adding coolant. slowly pour in and run the bike n see where your at.

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