Concerned 919 Owner - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 61 Old 02-22-2015, 09:24 AM Thread Starter
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Concerned 919 Owner

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Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
Haven't tried Lucas since the sea foam works so damn well.
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Originally Posted by EatDirtFartDust View Post
But don't overdue it with the Seafoam. That shit is hard on rubber seals/hoses/gaskets if too concentrated.
A bit concerned after reading those comments. So I've always been blowing a little black smoke (Fuel) for a while. Recently I tried Lucas because it was much cheaper than seafoam in a large quantity. Now I am blowing a huge puff of white smoke when torquing the throttle for a wheelie or hard acceleration out of a corner. (Looks like I just did a burnout) Very concerned that the gasket may have finally given way.

Hoping it's the cleaner breaking everything loose and burning it off but the smell is almost sweet. Also noticed my oil level (while resting on a stand) is slightly lower.

If it is the gasket: I would like to upgrade the pistons and other internals while I'm in there getting my hands dirty. Searched high and low but can't find any aftermarket pistons/parts for a 919. Safe to assume they aren't made for a niner?

Any and all feedback/constructive criticism-(Clorox) is greatly appreciated.

<Small puff of smoke
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post #2 of 61 Old 02-22-2015, 10:02 AM
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Any and all feedback/constructive criticism-(Clorox) is greatly appreciated.
Shoot in wide format. Sets the aspect ratio properly, and people don't have to turn their heads.

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post #3 of 61 Old 02-22-2015, 11:17 AM
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We're talking fuel system cleaners, right? I think the thing to avoid is letting the stuff sit in a rubber fuel line or carb bowl for extended periods. Just ride the treated tank out asap. I have used Techron (believed to be the harshest) for years and never had a problem. The most likely cause of puffs of white smoke would be valve stem seals / guides. Black smoke is caused by a fuel mixture too rich. Neither of these symptoms IMHO could be caused by Seafoam.
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post #4 of 61 Old 02-22-2015, 11:36 AM
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Why do people get a phone taht allows you to take a video on the side yet the refuse to do it?? HD TV's and Monitors are getting bigger, not just taller.

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post #5 of 61 Old 02-22-2015, 01:21 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by beefsalad View Post
people don't have to turn their heads.
You don't feel better having stretched your sternocleidomastoid for 5 seconds?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Phenix View Post
The most likely cause of puffs of white smoke would be valve stem seals / guides. Black smoke is caused by a fuel mixture too rich. Neither of these symptoms IMHO could be caused by Seafoam.
Crap, Valves seem more likely now that you mention it. I'm at 54k. I'll give that a go now. Thanks Ken!
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post #6 of 61 Old 02-22-2015, 01:21 PM
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Wolf, have you replaced your 919's fuel pressure regulator yet? This is a known issue with the 919s where it fails and the 919 keeps running richer and richer and eventually start emitting black smoke.

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post #7 of 61 Old 02-22-2015, 01:24 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CB700S View Post
Wolf, have you replaced your 919's fuel pressure regulator yet? This is a known issue with the 919s where it fails and the 919 keeps running richer and richer and eventually start emitting black smoke.
Nope, this is the first I've heard of that issue. About how many miles till one has that problem roughly? My temp sensor went out a while ago and replaced it.
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post #8 of 61 Old 02-22-2015, 01:31 PM
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Nope, this is the first I've heard of that issue. About how many miles till one has that problem roughly? My temp sensor went out a while ago and replaced it.
As I recall, some people had it start to fail as early as 20K. Check the archives for more info on when it fails.

Temp sensor going out is endemic to temp sensors - they are thermocouples in a brass or plastic case and they all eventually go inaccurate or burn out. General rule of thumb is that a vehicle's temp sensors should be replaced about every decade.

Regarding your prior question about pistons: Wiseco does or did make piston sets. They have turned up on eBay every so often. This was the next to last (somewhat improperly described) set to show up there: Wiseco Piston Kit R919 Honda CB900 CB900F Models | eBay

Failing that, Diamond Pistons can make whatever you want, custom: http://www.diamondracing.net/

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post #9 of 61 Old 02-22-2015, 01:34 PM
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Also, aren't you in Dallas now? What part of Dallas?

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post #10 of 61 Old 02-22-2015, 02:04 PM
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leak down test will show you what's going on

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post #11 of 61 Old 02-22-2015, 02:19 PM Thread Starter
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Also, aren't you in Dallas now? What part of Dallas?
Yeah, north off 75. Should get a Wristtwisters SA-Dallas ride organized when the weather is better.
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post #12 of 61 Old 02-22-2015, 02:27 PM
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Yeah, north off 75. Should get a Wristtwisters SA-Dallas ride organized when the weather is better.
Sounds like you're in my area. PM me, I'm not doing anything better this afternoon, I could drop by and see what there is to see.

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post #13 of 61 Old 02-22-2015, 03:05 PM
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Sounds like you're in my area. PM me, I'm not doing anything better this afternoon, I could drop by and see what there is to see.
Nice let's hope it works out. Keep us updated pls.

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post #14 of 61 Old 02-22-2015, 03:10 PM
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Nice let's hope it works out. Keep us updated pls.
Our schedules don't mesh today, but when we meet I'll make sure to get Wolf to report as to whether my HID system has any obnoxious glare - just for you.

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post #15 of 61 Old 02-22-2015, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CB700S View Post
As I recall, some people had it start to fail as early as 20K.
The one on my 2002 died within 7k miles... Then again it sat for YEARS. Fuel pump also took a shit near the same time.

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post #16 of 61 Old 02-22-2015, 03:56 PM
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Our schedules don't mesh today, but when we meet I'll make sure to get Wolf to report as to whether my HID system has any obnoxious glare - just for you.
Sure, because subjective opinion trumps scientific fact.

Bummer to hear the schedules didn't mesh. I was hoping that an update would reveal that nothing serious was going on regarding Wolf's 919.

Good luck Wolf. Keep us posted.

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post #17 of 61 Old 02-22-2015, 04:31 PM
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I want a third opinion on the hid glare.

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post #18 of 61 Old 02-22-2015, 07:29 PM
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I want a third opinion on the hid glare.
How 'bout this? HID glare saves lives. . . . .




. . . namely, mine.
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post #19 of 61 Old 02-22-2015, 08:43 PM
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How 'bout this? HID glare saves lives. . . . .

. . . namely, mine.
Funny.... several governmental bodies disagree with you.

Look, the issue isn't about HIDs themselves. When utilized correctly, they are great and work extremely well. When they are installed and used incorrectly, they are a greater hindrance than benefit. How are they installed/used incorrectly? When a HID bulb is placed in a reflector based housing and used without a proper projector as they were originally designed to be used with.

The science proves it. I've posted it, and I've said my piece.

Now let's get this back on topic. Wolf keep us updated. Hopefully CB700s can help you figure out what's going on.

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post #20 of 61 Old 02-23-2015, 12:37 AM
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When a HID bulb is placed in a reflector based housing and used without a proper projector as they were originally designed to be used with.

And as I've posted several examples, HIDs do *not* require projectors and DOT has approved many, many HID headlight designs that do not have projectors. The X308 series of Jaguar XJ8s, the Ford Explorer, the Lincoln Mark VIII are three examples of fully legal HID systems that do not use projectors. You are wrong about HIDs requiring projectors. Projectors are optimal for HID, but reflector based HID systems do exist and are legal.

Back on topic, I'll hopefully meet up with Wolf during the week sometime to check out what's going on with his 919.

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post #21 of 61 Old 02-23-2015, 04:09 AM
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post #22 of 61 Old 02-23-2015, 06:25 AM
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Forgive me. I was half joking and kinda knew this would open a reflector can of worms. Just so ya know, my old bike pictured had projectors for high and low beams as well as projector style fog lights mounted down low. They were not overly offensive to oncoming traffic.


The PIAA driving beams I converted to HID are reserved exclusively for Bambi and I sincerely hope they're offensive as hell. I recall the time a buck jumped over a concrete barrier in front of me on US87 between Clayton and Raton NM at around 1am. The temp was in the high 20's and I might not have been found for hours. The buck did an about face back over the barrier about 40 yards in front of me. So I don't care if they're "legal" but I do not use them anywhere near oncoming traffic. I wouldn't run highway speed in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night without them.

My 919 still has a halogen headlight.
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post #23 of 61 Old 02-23-2015, 07:08 AM
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post #24 of 61 Old 02-23-2015, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
Nope, this is the first I've heard of that issue. About how many miles till one has that problem roughly? My temp sensor went out a while ago and replaced it.
Mine has been toast since around 20k... maybe a little less... The whole back of my bike and license plate are coated in black from the exhaust.... They aren't hard to change and aren't too expensive, so if valves come back good that's where I'd look. I'm guessing mine failed because of sitting as they seem to. I picked the bike up 2 years ago with 5000 miles on it... (it's a 2007)

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post #25 of 61 Old 02-23-2015, 07:28 AM
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Forgive me.


I count 6 lights, am I missing any Ken? Did you have rear drive lights too?

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post #26 of 61 Old 02-23-2015, 07:32 AM
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I count 6 lights, am I missing any Ken? Did you have rear drive lights too?
No but I'm thinkin' about one of these babies.

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I am thinking of getting one of these to combat people with glaring lights


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post #28 of 61 Old 02-23-2015, 07:45 AM
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post #29 of 61 Old 02-23-2015, 11:02 AM
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And as I've posted several examples, HIDs do *not* require projectors and DOT has approved many, many HID headlight designs that do not have projectors. The X308 series of Jaguar XJ8s, the Ford Explorer, the Lincoln Mark VIII are three examples of fully legal HID systems that do not use projectors. You are wrong about HIDs requiring projectors. Projectors are optimal for HID, but reflector based HID systems do exist and are legal.

Back on topic, I'll hopefully meet up with Wolf during the week sometime to check out what's going on with his 919.
Hi, you posted examples of where the light housing was redesigned with the emphasis being on focusing the light output rather than reflecting the light as traditional.

If projectors are not needed for HIDs, then explain why the experts (including one you yourself quoted) explained the science behind how HIDs ideally work and why projectors are needed?

If reflector based housing were acceptable for HIDs, then why is it that automobile manufacturers currently use projectors? Why didn't they stay with the reflector based unit? Why did dot say that reflector based housing units cannot be used with HID systems unless the housing is modified for specific use with HIDs such as the X308 series of Jaguar XJ8s, the Ford Explorer, and the Lincoln Mark VIII like you mentioned?

You're a great, smart guy Cb700s, but you refuse to see and acknowledge the proven science of HIDs. All you keep presenting is your subjective opinion. So we'll just keep beating the proverbial dead horse.

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post #30 of 61 Old 02-23-2015, 12:06 PM
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Hi, you posted examples of where the light housing was redesigned with the emphasis being on focusing the light output rather than reflecting the light as traditional.
Except it wasn't redesigned. The XJ8 uses the exact same reflector housing whether the light source was HID or halogen. So did the Explorer.

Quote:
If projectors are not needed for HIDs, then explain why the experts (including one you yourself quoted) explained the science behind how HIDs ideally work and why projectors are needed?
They aren't needed to work, but a projector is better - but that applies to halogen lighting as well. Halogen lighting works better with a projector too.

Quote:
If reflector based housing were acceptable for HIDs, then why is it that automobile manufacturers currently use projectors? Why didn't they stay with the reflector based unit? Why did dot say that reflector based housing units cannot be used with HID systems unless the housing is modified for specific use with HIDs such as the X308 series of Jaguar XJ8s, the Ford Explorer, and the Lincoln Mark VIII like you mentioned?
Again, the housing wasn't modified on the XJ8 - what they did was change the mounts so the auto-leveling requirement was met and change the light source. That's how the Explorer worked as well. The Mark VIII predated the autoleveling requirement so it didn't even have that. All three passed DOT testing and were approved for road usage.

There was also the fully legal, approved by DOT Sylvania Xenarc retrofit kits:





I don't see any projector there, do you? Remember, this was a fully legal, approved by DOT and sold by a major lighting company kit.

As for why the auto makers used projectors, initially it was for not just better light performance but lower hood lines, which lead to better aero and better fuel economy. Halogens got projectors on many higher end cars, too - in fact, halogen projectors were used long before automotive HID was even a possibility. This is a BMW E32, produced long before automotive HIDs were available. Note the low-beam projectors.



The advent of Euro pedestrian safety regulations meant the end of low hood lines so halogen cars went back to mostly reflector only. However, the advent of the autoleveling requirement for cars plus the market demand for steerable headlights has led to manufacturers going with projectors for their HIDs. It's much easier and cheaper to buy one of the commodity two-axis motorized projectors and incorporate it into a new headlight design that bolts up to the halogen lights' static mounts than it is to design the car chassis to accommodate the static halogen light unit then engineer motorized mounts to get HID reflector units that can move. (Yes, I asked a contact at Jaguar the same question years ago.)

Of course, using these off the shelf projector units runs into other problems. Like the fact that some new cars using them as part of the design now require you to take the bumper and much of the front end of the car off to change bulbs. It costs two hours of dealer labor to change bulbs (HID or not) in a 2010+ Chevy Malibu, for example. It can take the same amount of time or more change the HID bulbs in a Cadillac SRX or CTS:



Further, I've never said that HID swaps will work in all or even most reflector units. I would never put them in my truck or my XJ6's current headlights because their reflectors are more conventionally shaped. The only reason I thought it might work in the 919's is because the reflector is pretty strangely/poorly shaped for conventional halogen lighting and it looked to me like they had been thinking about HID lighting when they designed it - it has a pretty typical profile for a dual use reflector.

In the long run, it probably won't matter much as everyone moves to LED array headlights which (as others have done here at WT) come with a new headlight unit anyway. It's where I plan to go in the near future.

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post #31 of 61 Old 02-23-2015, 03:19 PM
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Further, I've never said that HID swaps will work in all or even most reflector units. I would never put them in my truck or my XJ6's current headlights because their reflectors are more conventionally shaped. The only reason I thought it might work in the 919's is because the reflector is pretty strangely/poorly shaped for conventional halogen lighting and it looked to me like they had been thinking about HID lighting when they designed it - it has a pretty typical profile for a dual use reflector.

In the long run, it probably won't matter much as everyone moves to LED array headlights which (as others have done here at WT) come with a new headlight unit anyway. It's where I plan to go in the near future.
Then we've been saying the same thing in different words and from different perspectives. I'm glad we can agree on that point which was the main and vital point for me.

You and I are intelligent and can do the research ourselves, but most people are morons or simply don't care and will just put the brightest and cheapest HID bulbs in their 90's Honda civic or early 2000 lifted ford mall crawler.

I'll personally disagree regarding the 919 headlight as it's just a shit 80's design and knowing that Honda was pulling from the parts bin, I doubt they were even thinking of HIDs, let alone a half useful headlight to begin with.

But you're right about the Led conversion. It's also becoming much more popular with manufacturers and after market companies. I also think it's a better compromise between light output and hindered visibility of oncoming drivers. Hopefully cheaper to replace, but I doubt it as front end designs become more intricate and compact, such as the Malibu example you provided.

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post #32 of 61 Old 02-23-2015, 08:57 PM
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I hated my srx fog lamp turn signal housing. Many fine line scars and my son learned a few new words those days. Actually, everything about the srx sucked.

It ranks up there with a Dodge avenger engine configuration...i have to do WHAT to change my sparkplug?

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post #33 of 61 Old 03-05-2015, 10:24 AM Thread Starter
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Well crap! I replaced the FPR part # 16740-MCZ-013 from Partzilla for $59. Fired her up and still blasting smoke! So I opened the valve cover
... Everything is within specs at 54k miles! .005-.006 on the intakes and .009-.010 on the exhausts.

The spark plugs were wet and black. It it just a matter of needing new plugs?
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post #34 of 61 Old 03-05-2015, 10:35 AM
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Couldn't hurt to try - do you have any plugged or cracked vacuum lines?

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post #35 of 61 Old 03-05-2015, 10:52 AM
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post #36 of 61 Old 03-05-2015, 10:58 AM Thread Starter
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Part it out Wolf!
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post #37 of 61 Old 03-05-2015, 11:23 AM
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how long did you run it after replacing the FPR... I could see it taking some miles to clean everything out... Also, fresh plugs couldn't hurt

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post #38 of 61 Old 03-05-2015, 12:34 PM Thread Starter
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Just ordered a new set of iridium plugs for $27. I did notice the third plug was a little loose. Would that cause all plugs to be this wet?
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post #39 of 61 Old 03-05-2015, 12:52 PM
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No, a loose plug on one cylinder won't affect the mixture going into the others.

What was your fuel mileage like, when you were getting the smoke issue? Was the bike using noticeably more fuel?

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post #40 of 61 Old 03-05-2015, 12:58 PM
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"... Everything is within specs at 54k miles! .005-.006 on the intakes and .009-.010 on the exhausts."

When Ken talked about maybe worn valve seals and guides being the issue, that is not eliminated by doing a check on the valve clearances - it's great that they are in spec, but you could still have an issue with wear on those parts letting oil past and into the combustion chamber.

It would be interesting to know what happens to your exhaust colour when you open the throttle after coasting down a long hill with the throttle closed.

If you have wear in the guides and seals, the vacuum in the engine will suck oil past those worn seals, and when you open the throttle afterwards, there will be a pale blue smoke in the exhaust, as the oil gets burnt off all at once.

Can you get a friend to follow you along and check it out, somewhere? Are there hills in Dallas? Or a long downhill off-ramp?

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