Busted oil pan plug - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 27 Old 08-22-2019, 06:20 PM Thread Starter
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Busted oil pan plug

My oil pan plug keeps turning and turning. Most likely stripped. Leaking oil everywhere I park. I found a used oil pan on eBay for $48 so i ordered it. I need help on 2 things.... I don't know what is the correct gasket for that. It's a 2004. And my next problem is that I need to stop the oil leak while the new oil pan arrives (4 days or so). Can i use Teflon tape on the threads in the meantime or something similar while I ride for a couple days. Thanks.
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post #2 of 27 Old 08-22-2019, 06:41 PM Thread Starter
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That's in one day
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post #3 of 27 Old 08-23-2019, 02:08 AM
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I'm going with don't ride the bike at all.

You can blow that plug out on a corner and spill oil on your rear tire and hit a truck. 4 days isn't very long to wait compared to 4 months in the hospital thinking about why you didn't just wait.

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post #4 of 27 Old 08-23-2019, 03:17 AM
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post #5 of 27 Old 08-23-2019, 05:01 AM
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The gasket (or crush washer) is a 12mm.
The plug is 12mm x 1.5 thread.

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post #6 of 27 Old 08-23-2019, 05:28 AM
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You can get oversized drain plugs at your local auto parts store. The thread is oversized and acts as a threadcutter when you install it. This could get you by in a pinch.
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post #7 of 27 Old 08-23-2019, 07:12 AM
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The self-tapper option has an issue - the threads it cuts are considerably weaker than the originals and will wear out relatively quickly. Replacing the oil pan is a good idea as it's not terribly difficult.



Then you can install one of the Fumoto BX-series oil drain valves and never have to worry about this again. I'm going to be trying a Stahlbus one on mine next oil change.

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post #8 of 27 Old 08-23-2019, 11:17 AM
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Then you can install one of the Fumoto BX-series oil drain valves and never have to worry about this again. I'm going to be trying a Stahlbus one on mine next oil change.
I had a Fumoto B109SX series valve on mine then switched to the Stahlbus because I felt the Fumoto was too bulky and stuck out too far for my peace of mind. The Stahlbus is nice and compact.

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post #9 of 27 Old 08-24-2019, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mankilla View Post
My oil pan plug keeps turning and turning. Most likely stripped. Leaking oil everywhere I park. I found a used oil pan on eBay for $48 so i ordered it. I need help on 2 things.... I don't know what is the correct gasket for that. It's a 2004. And my next problem is that I need to stop the oil leak while the new oil pan arrives (4 days or so). Can i use Teflon tape on the threads in the meantime or something similar while I ride for a couple days. NO Thanks.
A thread cutter drain plug is an acceptable temporary option as long as you are replacing the pan, but not for extended use.

There is no gasket for the pan: it is sealed with Honda Bond only. FYI it is the only sealant I have used for pretty much everything for decades.

Concerning a drain valve instead of a bolt and washer ... yes it is an option, but is it really necessary? As long as you use a new washer every time the oil is changed and the drain bolt is properly tightened there is no reason why it should not last the life of the engine. The manual states the bolt be tightened to 29 ft/lbs, but I have never come anywhere near that torque as long as the washer is replaced every time.

Good luck.

Rob

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post #10 of 27 Old 08-24-2019, 07:20 PM
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If you change your oil on the side of the road, you won't have those disposal fees...
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post #11 of 27 Old 08-25-2019, 09:57 AM Thread Starter
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I couldn't find the correct oversized plug at auto zone so i just bought a set of misc oil plug washers. I drained the oil and put 2 washers on the bolt, one of the washers had a rubber gasket on it. I tightened the bolt and added new oil. I waited for a small leak but nothing. It worked. Does not leak anymore. Am I in the clear or is using 2 washers a bad idea.

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post #12 of 27 Old 08-25-2019, 12:48 PM
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Two washers is a bad idea. Replace the pan or helicoil the hole.

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post #13 of 27 Old 08-25-2019, 05:55 PM
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Does not leak anymore. Am I in the clear?
Does not leak at the moment, which admittedly is a big step forward from where you were.

But the original damage has not been repaired, so the weakness is still there - who knows what will happen to the threads next time you remove the plug and try to re-tighten it.

Your current road-side type fix buys you time to organise a proper repair, is the way I see it.

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post #14 of 27 Old 08-26-2019, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
Concerning a drain valve instead of a bolt and washer ... yes it is an option, but is it really necessary? As long as you use a new washer every time the oil is changed and the drain bolt is properly tightened there is no reason why it should not last the life of the engine. The manual states the bolt be tightened to 29 ft/lbs, but I have never come anywhere near that torque as long as the washer is replaced every time.

Good luck.

Rob

I have one of the older, higher mileage 919s on the forum - and I'm thinking the drain valve is a good idea. When changing the oil with the standard factory bolt, my exhaust gets in the way and not only makes it annoying to get a socket and ratchet on there, it makes a huge mess as oil goes onto the pipe and then everywhere.

Another issue is that I suspect the drain hole threads are getting worn with use; a new bolt still torques down properly with a new gasket, but the feel is off. This is a direct magnetic steel to aluminum interface so galling, bimetallic/galvanic corrosion and other factors will cause wear and damage over time. I do have a spare oil pan but I'd like to not have to use it. I also ended up having to do monthly (or more frequent) oil changes, due to how much I ride (sadly not so much this year due to health issues), which gets annoying. A drain valve makes this whole procedure faster, cleaner, less error prone and overall easier while not wearing out the threads in the oil pan.

Additionally, if you are interested in Used Oil Analysis to determine oil quality, engine wear or possible problems, this makes it possible to take periodic samples - as we don't have a dipstick or even a clear shot to the oil through the filler port. I had a drain valve on my PowerStroke for just this purpose and I recently installed a drain valve on my 4Runner for the same reason.
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post #15 of 27 Old 08-27-2019, 04:09 PM
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I like the idea of the Stahlbus oil drain, and the cap gives a little backup, I would think. I wonder though, because the threads look a little long, if there were be a little residual oil and the heaviest of particulates left behind in the pan. It could be trimmed, but it has "guts"... Perhaps itís a non-issue, but that and 45 dollars, keeps me from going in that direction. Has anyone put a Stahlbus drain, side by side with the OEM plug?
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post #16 of 27 Old 08-27-2019, 04:38 PM
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Good question.
I've had a look at these drain valves due to recent chatter. And have wondered the same thing.
Do these allow you to drain completely?

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post #17 of 27 Old 08-28-2019, 06:37 AM
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Good question.
I've had a look at these drain valves due to recent chatter. And have wondered the same thing.
Do these allow you to drain completely?

The Fumoto one looked a bit long, but optically the Stahlbus one looks about the length of the stock drain bolt.



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post #18 of 27 Old 08-28-2019, 07:01 AM
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Thanks for the picture. It’s a bit rudimentary, but counting the threads on the stock plug I see about 9 threads, with a 1.5 pitch, puts it about 13.5mm+, and the Stahlbus looks to be about 11 threads making it about 16.5mm. Does that seems about right? That would be a bit over 5/8"..
Their website has mechanical drawings of every part, except the thread length..

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post #19 of 27 Old 08-28-2019, 07:45 AM
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I'd still be concerned about all the old oil not draining out.
The 919 oil pan has a drainage channel in it. This is cut into part of the threaded wall that the bolt winds into. So I'm sure if the Stahlbus is the same length as the stock bolt it will block off part of this drainage channel.
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post #20 of 27 Old 08-28-2019, 08:07 AM
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I'd still be concerned about all the old oil not draining out.
The 919 oil pan has a drainage channel in it. This is cut into part of the threaded wall that the bolt winds into. So I'm sure if the Stahlbus is the same length as the stock bolt it will block off part of this drainage channel.
Agreed. The OEM plug comes out... Short of machining or drilling drain holes through the body of the Stahlbus, and I think the check valve is near the last 1/3 of its length, and probably above the channel cut into the threads in the pan. it seems it would retain oil. It would be a bummer to waste 50 bucks to drill holes in something I’m going to throw away. ...but I do enjoy a good experiment. Next time someone has their drain plug out.. check the distance from the surface of the crush washer to drain channel. If the channel is above the check in the Stahlbus it could be machined, filed or drilled. It does not appear to be the case looking at pictures though. Just a thought.

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post #21 of 27 Old 08-28-2019, 08:42 AM
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Thanks for the picture. Itís a bit rudimentary, but counting the threads on the stock plug I see about 9 threads, with a 1.5 pitch, puts it about 13.5mm+, and the Stahlbus looks to be about 11 threads making it about 16.5mm. Does that seems about right? That would be a bit over 5/8"..
Their website has mechanical drawings of every part, except the thread length..

Keep in mind that the Stahlbus comes with a thicker sealing washer, which can make a difference.


I have a spare oilpan around here somewhere, so I can dig it out and thread my as-yet-uninstalled Stahlbus into it to hand tightness so we can see whether it does or does not stick up enough to make a difference. Keep in mind that small amounts of used oil pool in various parts of the motor even when you change oil through the normal method with the stock setup, so a little remaining in the pan isn't bad.
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post #22 of 27 Old 08-28-2019, 10:43 AM
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Coming from my experience fitting things where they aren't intended by the manufacturer, in this case using a thicker sealing washer with sealant applied to both sides will allow complete drainage. That is unless it drops the valve too far, making it vulnerable to damage.

Seeing that the Stahlbus addresses my concerns about suddenly losing all your oil when the valve is inadvertantly knocked open I now withdraw all but one of my reservations for this valve only. The one remaining is the cost. Yeah, it will eventually pay for itself, but at 30 cents each for drain plug washers that's ... one hundred fifty oil changes. Multiply by 3000 miles per change that's 450,000 miles, or 724,204 Km..

For me that's possible. Not!

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post #23 of 27 Old 08-28-2019, 12:32 PM
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Busted oil pan plug

Iíll address the cost issue. Because of how my stock exhaust headers impinge into the drain path, the oil gets all over them and I have to clean it off with brake parts cleaner and shop towels. Figure thatís about $4 worth per oil change because they get messy. I have also had to replace the drain plug once in the last 40K due to it getting a bit rounded off due to wear (local dealers say this is not uncommon, even for bikes that were dealer-serviced-only), but weíll leave that out of the per change cost for now.

So, $4.30 per change into the $40 I paid for the Stahlbus means it pays for itself in a bit under 10 changes, which means about ten months of riding for me. To say nothing of the value of my time spent cleaning the oil off the headers.

Yeah, financially worth it - at least in my case.

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post #24 of 27 Old 08-28-2019, 10:04 PM
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I'll see your $4 and raise (well, lower) you one eight square inch piece of cheap aluminum foil obtained at a dollar store draped over the header. If $1 for a 12 inch by 30 yard roll of foil totalling 12,960 square inches is used exclusively for oil changes divided by eight is 1620 oil changes, which shakes out to .06172839506 cents per oil change, and it's recyclable. I'll be charitable and round up to one cent per. That, and you are not polluting the atmosphere with toluene, zylene, blitzene, and Thor knows how many other arcane chemicals. It's a win-win-win, er, win ... More or less. I'll grant you the drain plug replacement due to the cost of preventing it with a $42 Snap On six point flank drive socket, taking into consideration the fact that it will be quite useful for other tasks, in which case a percentage of the use for oil changes shrinks considerably, probably down to 10%, adding $4.20 every 13th oil change, or 32 cents per. Coincidentally almost the same as the drain plug washer, so it's a wash. Final tally? One hundred forty nine oil changes, or 447,000 miles.

Rob
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post #25 of 27 Old 08-29-2019, 05:41 AM
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I'll see your $4 and raise (well, lower) you one eight square inch piece of cheap aluminum foil obtained at a dollar store draped over the header. If $1 for a 12 inch by 30 yard roll of foil totalling 12,960 square inches is used exclusively for oil changes divided by eight is 1620 oil changes, which shakes out to .06172839506 cents per oil change, and it's recyclable. I'll be charitable and round up to one cent per. That, and you are not polluting the atmosphere with toluene, zylene, blitzene, and Thor knows how many other arcane chemicals. It's a win-win-win, er, win ... More or less. I'll grant you the drain plug replacement due to the cost of preventing it with a $42 Snap On six point flank drive socket, taking into consideration the fact that it will be quite useful for other tasks, in which case a percentage of the use for oil changes shrinks considerably, probably down to 10%, adding $4.20 every 13th oil change, or 32 cents per. Coincidentally almost the same as the drain plug washer, so it's a wash. Final tally? One hundred forty nine oil changes, or 447,000 miles.

Rob

Already do the aluminum foil thing for the filter and yes it does work there. It still makes a mess for the drain as there are clearance and geometry issues - see below.

I already have that Snap On socket, but the problem is it does NOT fit between my header and the drain bolt. I know that later 919s have a slightly different header, but there are clearance issues for tools (or anything else) between my stock header and the drain bolt. I have to use a short, very thin-wall six point to get it out or in with a swivel. Wrapping the header in aluminum foil near the drain just results in the oil flowing to the ends of it unless a ridiculous amount is used - and then there's the time value of putting it on or taking it off.


I have explored those options and they do not make sense for my rig or situation. I stand by the financial calculations.

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post #26 of 27 Old 08-29-2019, 05:49 AM
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Keep in mind that the Stahlbus comes with a thicker sealing washer, which can make a difference.

I have a spare oilpan around here somewhere, so I can dig it out and thread my as-yet-uninstalled Stahlbus into it to hand tightness so we can see whether it does or does not stick up enough to make a difference. Keep in mind that small amounts of used oil pool in various parts of the motor even when you change oil through the normal method with the stock setup, so a little remaining in the pan isn't bad.

Haven't been able to find my spare oil pan today - might have to wait for me to measure the hole depth in my installed oilpan when I install it.

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post #27 of 27 Old 09-01-2019, 02:04 PM
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Love ya Rob! Was great reading your posts today.

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