Brake Rotors maintenance - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 63 Old 08-07-2014, 04:09 AM Thread Starter
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Ok folks,
we all know the button trick, to free up the carrier/rotor movement. If not, search the forum for "warped rotors", "rotor buttons" etc. You should find that info.

Prepping VFR, I decided to take the rotor maintenance one step further. First, I check front rotors for thickness and rotor warpage. My manual (VFR12) shows limits as follows: Min thickness - 3.5mm; warpage - 0.20mm

Attachment 75562
(this pic was taken end the end, wasn't documenting it at first)


Ok, everything checks out and within service limits. However, VFR rotors didn't look its best (IMO) after 10k miles. A lot of directional brake pad deposits, groves, grime etc. So ..........
I decided to try Flex-hone brush originally made for vehicle rotors (by Brush Research). Brush comes with 3 levels of abrasion. For moto rotors, I selected to go straight to the finest one, 240 grit.

How it works: Brush is inserted in the drill (preferably corded) and is being rotated with about 1k rpm. Brush needs to be slightly angled to the rotor surface, about 10'. At the same time, rotor needs to be rotated about 200rpm. I found that if one applies just the right amount of pressure, with a little hand push at the beginning, a friction between the rotor and the brush will make wheel/rotor rotate without any further assistance for a period of time.
Tip: hand push direction should be opposite to the drill's direction of rotation. Drill clockwise - wheel/rotor counterclockwise and vice versa.
For the final finish and somewhat even cross pattern, I did a few quick final passed in both direction.

the whole process in action (rotors are already reversed in these pics):
Attachment 75586

Before
Attachment 75570
After
Attachment 75594
After both sides were done, the wheel came off, rotors got reversed and the wheel was mounted back to finish the job.

Pic of 6 pot VFR calipers for your entertainment.
Attachment 75602

Regards

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post #2 of 63 Old 08-07-2014, 07:28 AM
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Oh I like this! Where did u score the rotor hone?

Nice work man .... love your new VFR btw!

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post #3 of 63 Old 08-07-2014, 08:46 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliMech View Post
Oh I like this! Where did u score the rotor hone?

Nice work man .... love your new VFR btw!
Thank you sir. Hone is about $45-50. Ebay has them for $35 or so. Same company makes hones for cylinder heads etc. Quality made, will last for a long time and can use it for your vehicles as well. Just make sure to get 240 (fine) grit if doing bike rotors.

BRM Flex-Hone, Industrial Brushes, Wire Brushes

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post #4 of 63 Old 08-07-2014, 09:35 AM
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Ohhh, I just resurfaced my rotors the old way (die grinder, abrasive disks, and a lot of patience). It turned out very well, but I sure wish I had one of these flex hones.

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post #5 of 63 Old 08-07-2014, 10:33 AM
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Newbe question here; what's the point of doing this? Obviously heavy grooves are bad, but what advantage is there in getting rid of light scoring?

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post #6 of 63 Old 08-07-2014, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by EscapedLabRat View Post
Newbe question here; what's the point of doing this? Obviously heavy grooves are bad, but what advantage is there in getting rid of light scoring?
Usually when you get new brake pads, you want the pads and rotors to mate (TWSS) so the the contact area between them has the same pattern. Cuts down on brake noise, promotes even wear, better stopping power, and greater longevity.

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post #7 of 63 Old 08-07-2014, 01:09 PM
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After putting new pads on the 599, I get a low squeal at slow speeds - I wonder if this would fix that issue. Thanks for the info Zaq!

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post #8 of 63 Old 08-07-2014, 03:02 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapedLabRat View Post
Newbe question here; what's the point of doing this? Obviously heavy grooves are bad, but what advantage is there in getting rid of light scoring?
Some times those groves in rotors are showing rhe same symptoms as warped rotors, pads viberate and kick back. Kick back also can result in mooshy brakes. New pads will wear out tonthe shape of old rotors in no time and then continue to make existing rotor groves deeper, wearing out your rotors much faster and unevenly. Al that dark crap one sees on rotors is cacked brake dust which can produce unwanted noise

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post #9 of 63 Old 08-07-2014, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
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Some times those groves in rotors are showing rhe same symptoms as warped rotors, pads viberate and kick back. Kick back also can result in mooshy brakes. New pads will wear out tonthe shape of old rotors in no time and then continue to make existing rotor groves deeper, wearing out your rotors much faster and unevenly. Al that dark crap one sees on rotors is cacked brake dust which can produce unwanted noise
Gotcha. Thanks for the info.

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post #10 of 63 Old 08-07-2014, 03:49 PM
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.2MM warp = .0078 Inches. That's a lot!
I'd think if a rotor was that warped, you'd feel it.

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post #11 of 63 Old 08-07-2014, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by semi_gray View Post
.2MM warp = .0078 Inches. That's a lot! I'd think if a rotor was that warped, you'd feel it.
2mm is actually vfr's&w borderline/max, not sure what 9ers is. But yeah, 2mm is a lot, you can probably hear it too, just by spinning the wheel.

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post #12 of 63 Old 08-07-2014, 04:28 PM
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bravo,,,i wish I'm not that negligent,,,mine right one was pushing the piston back, only than i tweaked it with a pair of pliers,, now its not so bad, but i can't do the free wheel spin...theres a pair of ebc's a guy sells me for 150,, i might do that, i have 25k on mines...

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post #13 of 63 Old 08-07-2014, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliMech View Post
Oh I like this! Where did u score the rotor hone?

Nice work man .... love your new VFR btw!
I got mine from Tony Blue at BlueStreakRacing in Ontario.
Mine is a Medium, not yet used, been in the roll away for a couple years already.
Now I'm wondering if I should have gotten a Fine ....................

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post #14 of 63 Old 08-07-2014, 05:48 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
I got mine from Tony Blue at BlueStreakRacing in Ontario. Mine is a Medium, not yet used, been in the roll away for a couple years already. Now I'm wondering if I should have gotten a Fine ....................
try in on any old rotor if you got one. Maybe it will be ok. Here is almost brand new rotor (pic). Looks like OEM honing is a little more pronounced than what I got.

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post #15 of 63 Old 08-07-2014, 09:15 PM
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good idea and thanks, and I have some used stock rotors to try on

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post #16 of 63 Old 08-08-2014, 07:41 AM
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IMO this falls in the "ride more, worry less" category, unless of course you have a brake squeal.

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post #17 of 63 Old 08-08-2014, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
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IMO this falls in the "ride more, worry less" category, unless of course you have a brake squeal.
Until such time as you want or need to change pads.

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post #18 of 63 Old 08-08-2014, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
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IMO this falls in the "ride more, worry less" category, unless of course you have a brake squeal.
Who said anyone's worried? For some of us half of the fun is riding, the other half is tinkering.

Okay, maybe 60-40.

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post #19 of 63 Old 09-18-2014, 03:07 PM
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My front brakes had minor "rubbing" noises until a few months ago when I replaced the front tire. Since then its been really loud. Today I removed both calipers and cleaned them thoroughly. I found that on both of them, only 2 of the 4 pistons were moving as the pads wore.

I removed and cleaned the pistons and made sure they were not all the way compressed when I put them back on. After bleeding them the noise was dramatically reduced. Definitely makes the ride more enjoyable again.

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post #20 of 63 Old 06-06-2016, 08:08 PM
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I also recently replaced both my tires and the both (or one) of the front two rotors are loud as hell when i brake.

I figured...meh i'll get a good clean and new pads...Fast forward to new pads and when they were off for cleaning you could see the uneven wear pattern on the new pads.

Under heavy braking it doesn't make any noise. My mechanic suggested I replace the rotors if I can't get the noise to go down after doing some hard braking.

What do you guys think? as for rotors are oem the best bet to go for? though i bet they're expensive as hell (just checked at least 400 a pop...wtf!! )
any other alternatives that people have experience with?

Not going to lie...the noise while stopping at a stop light is quite embarassing :'(

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post #21 of 63 Old 06-07-2016, 06:08 AM
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I thought noise was more a problem with calipers and pads ( dirt and/or sticky pistons). I had to replace my rotors (discs in Oz). The tell tale sign of discs wearing out is buckling and a lumpy feeling on slow braking. I 'd be inclined to give the calipers a good renewal with new seals and a really good clean. You can also measure the disc thickness, the correct thickness is in a workshop manual.
After market discs are available much cheaper than OEM. I used Metalgear, they are highly regarded in Oz. They also had the gold disc carrier as in the OEM. You can also get EBC. Both are well regarded and a lot cheaper but still good quality. I've known people here get Ebay ones from China and they say they are OK too. Much cheaper. I suppose I went for the middle option.
Good luck.

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post #22 of 63 Old 06-07-2016, 06:35 AM
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Before going too far, try freeing up the rotor buttons; there is a thread or 2 here about it. If they have gotten dirty/corroded/tight, it can cause your brakes to howl.

Goog probably has a video how-to.

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post #23 of 63 Old 06-07-2016, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
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Before going too far, try freeing up the rotor buttons; there is a thread or 2 here about it. If they have gotten dirty/corroded/tight, it can cause your brakes to howl. Goog probably has a video how-to.
2nd'd... Had a terrible problem with chattering/vibrating front end under braking on my track bike. Cleaned the buttons and everything was much smoother
Edit: upon further reading the first post in this very thread addresses that..lol

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post #24 of 63 Old 06-07-2016, 07:56 AM
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Thanks for the suggestion. I'll try that today :-D

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2nd'd... Had a terrible problem with chattering/vibrating front end under braking on my track bike. Cleaned the buttons and everything was much smoother Edit: upon further reading the first post in this very thread addresses that..lol

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post #25 of 63 Old 06-07-2016, 08:38 AM
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+3 on brake rotor buttons.

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post #26 of 63 Old 06-07-2016, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badmoon692008 View Post
Edit: upon further reading the first post in this very thread addresses that..lol
Doh! On my phone and only looked at the latest posts.

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post #27 of 63 Old 06-07-2016, 10:31 PM
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Soooo I did the cleaning of the rotors following Dellboys garage: https://youtu.be/1qoPqN2GBdw

But it didn't change much in the noise department... The left rotor were the most difficult to release and even towards the end the buttons were quite difficult to spin...

The problem is since they are semi-floating I'm not sure what the threshold of the button movement to look for.


But I might try again this weekend and try to loosen them even more :'(

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post #28 of 63 Old 06-08-2016, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewmin3m View Post
Soooo I did the cleaning of the rotors following Dellboys garage: https://youtu.be/1qoPqN2GBdw

But it didn't change much in the noise department... The left rotor were the most difficult to release and even towards the end the buttons were quite difficult to spin...

The problem is since they are semi-floating I'm not sure what the threshold of the button movement to look for.


But I might try again this weekend and try to loosen them even more :'(
I don't know that they ever really get "easy" to spin, at least with your fingers, but using his method with the bolt and washers you should be able to feel it go from gritty and rough to smooth and slightly easier to spin. That's all you're looking for.

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post #29 of 63 Old 06-08-2016, 07:59 AM
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If that's the case then this didn't help at all with the noise... Or maybe it's just that the pads need to get worn evenly since they weren't before...

Quote:
Originally Posted by badmoon692008 View Post
I don't know that they ever really get "easy" to spin, at least with your fingers, but using his method with the bolt and washers you should be able to feel it go from gritty and rough to smooth and slightly easier to spin. That's all you're looking for.

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post #30 of 63 Old 06-08-2016, 08:20 AM
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You need to check your caliper poisons. If the pads are not wearing evenly, then one side may be getting hung up. You can clean them with out taking then apart.

After than, bed in your pads properly.

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post #31 of 63 Old 06-08-2016, 10:06 AM
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Did you follow the proper procedure for reinstalling the front wheel? I've found it you follow Honda's procedure everything lines up better and causes less break drag.

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post #32 of 63 Old 06-08-2016, 11:48 AM
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My Mechanic changed my tires so I don't know...

is there anything I could check?
Quote:
Originally Posted by firedave View Post
Did you follow the proper procedure for reinstalling the front wheel? I've found it you follow Honda's procedure everything lines up better and causes less break drag.

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post #33 of 63 Old 06-08-2016, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
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My Mechanic changed my tires so I don't know... is there anything I could check?
I'm assuming this is a 919. If so I would loosen all the pinch bolts on the bottom of the forks, recheck the front axle torque. Tighten the right side pinch bolts, then compress the forks up and down while holding the front brake then tighten the left side. This should centre the brakes.

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post #34 of 63 Old 06-09-2016, 05:39 PM
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I'll definitely try this as well.
I'm also wondering if I should remove some fluid from the MC. I think it's topped up full and maybe that's the reason why even when I ride now it squeals. You can hear the pads rubbing even when I'm strolling along...

Quote:
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I'm assuming this is a 919. If so I would loosen all the pinch bolts on the bottom of the forks, recheck the front axle torque. Tighten the right side pinch bolts, then compress the forks up and down while holding the front brake then tighten the left side. This should centre the brakes.

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post #35 of 63 Old 06-09-2016, 10:17 PM
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I'll provide some pictures of the disks and pads when I get to cleaning it again and trying out all of the above.

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post #36 of 63 Old 06-10-2016, 02:59 PM
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[QUOTE=ewmin3m;1216865
any other alternatives that people have experience with?
[/QUOTE]

If it comes to changing rotors, I've been running a set of these for 6 months or so, and they've bedded in well - no noise, good stopping power. I don't do track days or anything, so I'm not taking them to their limits, just riding them around...[I have an F3 wheel, BTW]

Front Disc Brake Rotor for Honda CBR 600 F3 1995 1998 VFR400 R NC30 1989 1992 | eBay

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post #37 of 63 Old 06-10-2016, 04:49 PM
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Cool thanks for info. I'll keep this in mind if i do decide to change.

Do they work for the stock 919 wheel and calipers fine?


EDIT: I just measured the thickness of the rotors and both the front are 4.0mm right on the money as apposed to being between the service manuals min 4.3 mm and max 4.7 mm. The rear seems to be ok at near 4.8 mm but it's also at the limit...

Now that I think about it it kinda makes sense... If the rotors are thinner than they're supposed to be, the pads have to travel further to fully grip them. I have to pull the brake really really hard for them not to squeal. So by that logic under normal braking the pad surface isn't in contact with the rotors at 100%, therefore producing the squeal.

Though that wouldn't explain why I could still hear some squealing when I'm not using the brakes at all... Though that could be explained by the rotors not centering themselves due to the lack of thickness...


Note that the bike has 54k km on it and I'm pretty sure that these are the rotors the bike came with... Whats the life expectancy on these things?

Thanks for all your help

EDIT 2: I see the serviceable limit is 3.5mm in the front so it still has a long way to go... I'll try re-aligning the wheel.


Quote:
Originally Posted by K1w1Boy View Post
If it comes to changing rotors, I've been running a set of these for 6 months or so, and they've bedded in well - no noise, good stopping power. I don't do track days or anything, so I'm not taking them to their limits, just riding them around...[I have an F3 wheel, BTW]

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post #38 of 63 Old 06-12-2016, 02:04 AM
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Do they work for the stock 919 wheel and calipers fine?
No, the stock 919 rotors and the F3 ones are different - my point was more that the aftermarket world of ebay can help you out.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Front-Brake-...VXWCJI&vxp=mtr

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post #39 of 63 Old 06-12-2016, 02:09 PM
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I performed the pinch bolts adjustment. I hear a slight decrease in noise. But still there.

I've also added pictures of my.pads and rotors.

Note that I rode with the new pads before I got the calipers cleaned and everything so the wear was a lot.more.uneven but I see that they're starting to get worn a bit more uniform after I cleaned the buttons
Attached Images
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post #40 of 63 Old 06-14-2016, 06:16 PM
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sooo after the cleaning and fiddling and everything the front brakes still sound super loud :-(

Now the question is does anybody know of any aftermarket rotors that I could get? Some reliable parts that is that you have experience with?

Links would be much appreciated.

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