Brake Job - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 27 Old 07-25-2014, 09:53 PM Thread Starter
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Brake Job

So I finally have to do brakes. Rear are shot front right is nearly shot and the left has some life but might as well do them too. I have the parts in and may do them on Sunday.

Any tips and tricks you guys can give?

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post #2 of 27 Old 07-25-2014, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07919Dave View Post
So I finally have to do brakes. Rear are shot front right is nearly shot and the left has some life but might as well do them too. I have the parts in and may do them on Sunday.

Any tips and tricks you guys can give?
Here you go:

Brake bleeding problems? Look here, fail proof bleeding : Suzuki GSX-R Motorcycle Forums: Gixxer.com

I have used this method on the 9er & 2 different GSXRs & always achieved a rock hard lever (TWSS) The important thing here is the teflon tape, pay close attention how you wrap it on the bleeder. And get heavy duty teflon tape.

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post #3 of 27 Old 07-26-2014, 04:31 AM
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If you are going to use Teflon tape keep in mind that you only want one layer on the threads and no extra hanging off. It helps to wrap the opposite direction from tight, too. I did one job with hose and a check valve and one reverse bleeding (new lines) and both came out great.

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post #4 of 27 Old 07-26-2014, 06:34 AM
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Take the time to clean the pistons before you retract them back in their bore..............a tooth brush and some brake fluid does wonders. Use some nylon hose to shoe shine the pistons after you get off most of crud. Spend some time to clean the pad pins in addition.

and one more item:

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post #5 of 27 Old 07-26-2014, 05:22 PM
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Ah, just a note here, and I am not trying to flame or embarrass anyone, but you shouldn't use teflon tape on any brake components. If you have a brake component that is leaking, then it is either a damaged connection that needs to be repaired or replaced or it is loose and needs to be tightened. The threads do not seal anything in your brake system, they just hold the flared portions together, and it is the flare that does the sealing (or the brass rings where you encounter banjo fittings. Some of the brake bleeders have a sealant on them and I wouldn't bother to scrape it off, but aside from that I wouldn't put anything on them, period.

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post #6 of 27 Old 07-26-2014, 05:26 PM
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Teflon was mentioned to be used ONLY on the bleeder valves; not on the banjos. The teflon creates a seal when bleeding. Once bleeding is complete, the teflon is irrelevant & does not serve any purpose. Since one cannot remove the teflon after bleeding, it is left alone.

EDIT: There is no set method of bleeding. Different folks will follow different techniques. Find what works best for you & stick with it.

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post #7 of 27 Old 07-26-2014, 05:38 PM
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I'd still avoid teflon tape, only because it can block an orifice if someone gets a little overzealous applying it. Probably what might work a little better for the bleeder valves is a dab of Teflon paste, and only on the threads, similar to how you would apply thread lock.

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post #8 of 27 Old 07-26-2014, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpcraft View Post
I'd still avoid teflon tape, only because it can block an orifice if someone gets a little overzealous applying it. Probably what might work a little better for the bleeder valves is a dab of Teflon paste, and only on the threads, similar to how you would apply thread lock.
I'm in the same boat. Didn't touch any tape or paste, yet after installing SS lines today (and retracting the pistons 100%) I have a rock hard lever. I am of the opinion that if you are sucking air from the bleeder valve threads, you are opening it entirely too far. 1/8 turn is more than enough to bleed a system.

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post #9 of 27 Old 07-26-2014, 09:08 PM
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I just got a Mity Vac, so I've been wanting to try it out to see if it's as good as they say.

I'll have to to another video of using that if it's any good.

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post #10 of 27 Old 07-27-2014, 09:48 AM Thread Starter
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Hey beef, did you take any photos or video of that SS a Brake line job?

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post #11 of 27 Old 07-27-2014, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JRz...RSOcmdlAYZbXeA

I just got a Mity Vac, so I've been wanting to try it out to see if it's as good as they say.

I'll have to to another video of using that if it's any good.
I still find on a bike that nothing beats just reaching up and pumping the brakes by hand.
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post #12 of 27 Old 07-27-2014, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07919Dave View Post
Hey beef, did you take any photos or video of that SS a Brake line job?
Negative. I don't see it as technical enough to warrant it. About the only "trick" I used was recycling the OEM holders. Cut the rubber grommet off of the OEM lines, wrapped around new lines, shoved back into the holder. With the 2002 I traded off, I used heatshrink to keep the gromets in place. This time around I didn't have the foresight to do it before I had the system bled down. I'm hoping they stay, otherwise I'll probably resort to more hackish things.

I can take a finished picture if you'd like, but there's nothing impressive (besides the machmoto brake line holder)

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post #13 of 27 Old 07-27-2014, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffie7 View Post
I still find on a bike that nothing beats just reaching up and pumping the brakes by hand.
I still do this at the end of a good bleed, but if you've ever replaced lines or started with rebuilt calipers, this method alone takes FOREVER.

Doing a reverse bleed you can take out the first 45 minutes of the bleed process in under 5.

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post #14 of 27 Old 07-28-2014, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
I still do this at the end of a good bleed, but if you've ever replaced lines or started with rebuilt calipers, this method alone takes FOREVER.

Doing a reverse bleed you can take out the first 45 minutes of the bleed process in under 5.
I resorted to this method on my S10 after hours of "the usual method" failed to produce any pressure. I forced the fluid to the clutch cylinder from the bleeder and I was damn near done! I still did a few iterations of the old-school method (just to be sure) but IIRC I didn't get any air out of the bleeder.

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post #15 of 27 Old 07-28-2014, 03:00 PM Thread Starter
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Okay so I just got finished putting new brakes on all around. Fronts weren't as bad as I thought but still seeing how I had them out and new one sitting next to me I just went ahead and changed them. I followed the Shop Manual and found a discrepancy between what was written and what was photoed for the Front Brakes. I will show you later in the photos. The bolts had a locking agent on them but the manual doesn't say you need to put it back on when tightening them up. I will go for a test ride and check the bolts over the next few days to see if they should have some on it or not.

Here is my work, enjoy!

brake job - Imgur

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post #16 of 27 Old 07-28-2014, 04:04 PM
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Since you were just there, I noticed something on my niner that bothers me a bit. Does your front axle bolt go all the way from one side of the forks through the other side of the other fork? I'll take a pic if needed

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post #17 of 27 Old 07-28-2014, 04:07 PM
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post #18 of 27 Old 07-28-2014, 04:16 PM
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That looks the same as mine - what's yr concern?

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post #19 of 27 Old 07-28-2014, 04:19 PM
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Just concerned that the axle bolt may not have been long enough.

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post #20 of 27 Old 07-28-2014, 04:26 PM
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Right!

No, it's designed that way - have a look at the attached schematic from the service manual.

Yr "passenger side" view shows the bolt that threads into the end of the axle to retain it on that side. The "driver side" shows, if you like, the "head" of the bolt that is the whole axle, with the shoulder part protruding. All is well.
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post #21 of 27 Old 07-28-2014, 04:26 PM Thread Starter
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Didn't really look but I will when I get home.

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post #22 of 27 Old 07-28-2014, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07919Dave View Post
Okay so I just got finished putting new brakes on all around. Fronts weren't as bad as I thought but still seeing how I had them out and new one sitting next to me I just went ahead and changed them. I followed the Shop Manual and found a discrepancy between what was written and what was photoed for the Front Brakes. I will show you later in the photos. The bolts had a locking agent on them but the manual doesn't say you need to put it back on when tightening them up. I will go for a test ride and check the bolts over the next few days to see if they should have some on it or not.

Here is my work, enjoy!

brake job - Imgur
Nice work and great pictures!

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post #23 of 27 Old 07-28-2014, 07:48 PM Thread Starter
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Oh, yeah, the whole thing took me 30min to do. I cruised through the rear brakes so fast I just went ahead and did the front too.

I am using OEM Nissin pads purchased from Bikebandit.com

Next project is the stainless steel brake lines

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post #24 of 27 Old 07-28-2014, 08:24 PM
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I bled my brakes a month ago, and had a really stiff lever afterwards. Now when the bike sits the first pull is super mushy. I checked the bled points and there doesn't appear to be any leaks.

It stayed stiff for a while right after I did the bled, but now is mushy. Is there anywhere else I should look for leaks? Nothing is obvious at the banjos or anything. It also seems to be random when it goes soft. I just went and checked the bike in the garage and the lever felt good, it seems to take sitting all night but sometimes the first pull is mushy, but not all the time

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post #25 of 27 Old 07-28-2014, 10:14 PM
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What you're experiencing is very small bubbles that make it up into the master cylinder (but not able to escape) due to vibrations after being ridden for a while.

First thing I do after a good bleed is go for a 10-20 minute ride, using the brakes quite a bit here and there, then try and not touch them too much for the last 2-3 minutes back to the garage; then one more lever/pressure bleed with very fast open/close on the bleed valve to get those last bubbles out. This almost always make a really firm lever that STAYS.

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post #26 of 27 Old 07-29-2014, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
What you're experiencing is very small bubbles that make it up into the master cylinder (but not able to escape) due to vibrations after being ridden for a while.

First thing I do after a good bleed is go for a 10-20 minute ride, using the brakes quite a bit here and there, then try and not touch them too much for the last 2-3 minutes back to the garage; then one more lever/pressure bleed with very fast open/close on the bleed valve to get those last bubbles out. This almost always make a really firm lever that STAYS.
Cool thanks. I'll try a quick bleed tonight. I got on the bike this morning and the lever was nice and firm. It's weird. Maybe there are some bubbles trapped some where.

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post #27 of 27 Old 07-29-2014, 11:43 AM
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At my last pad change, my lever changed quite noticeably for the better, and all I had done was to push the pistons well back into the calipers to give me plenty of clearance - in the process, I must have driven out some long-term lurking bubbles.

You could give it a try and just see if it helps - it's quick and un-messy.

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