bike lurches forward with clutch all the way in? - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 70 Old 12-16-2012, 10:10 PM Thread Starter
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bike lurches forward with clutch all the way in?

So....ya, in the vid i am giving lots of rpms to bike with clutch all the way in, i have gsg adjustables though, but it shouldn't make a difference where they are at right? What is happening here?

What's up with my clutch? - YouTube

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post #2 of 70 Old 12-16-2012, 10:22 PM
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Your clutch is not fully disengaging.... tighten the cable to reduce the slack

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post #3 of 70 Old 12-16-2012, 10:39 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
Your clutch is not fully disengaging.... tighten the cable to reduce the slack
Tighten cable, clutch disengaged completely when pulled in? Sometimes visualising stuff is hard for me. Adjust at clutch cable? That large sprocket looking thing? Clockwise?

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post #4 of 70 Old 12-16-2012, 11:25 PM
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The sprocket looking thing is just a lock. Loosen it and take a 10mm wrench to turn the cable adjustment clockwise. Tighten sprocket looking thing when you've got your slack.

How much slack do you have? Your clutch should be engaging close to the lever released. This should make the clutch disengage when you pull the lever. If your cable adjustment at the lever is maxed, you'll need to make adjustment on the other end.

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post #5 of 70 Old 12-16-2012, 11:41 PM
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FWIW mine did the same with slack in the cable and when tightened to spec. I only did it a few times as I didn't want to sit there and rev the hell out of it over and over and saw now need to be giving it those kind of RPMs with the clutch in so I never paid too much mind to it. Although mine wasn't a big lunge, just enough to make the bike go forward maybe 1/2 inch or so.

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post #6 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 12:01 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewebay1 View Post
The sprocket looking thing is just a lock. Loosen it and take a 10mm wrench to turn the cable adjustment clockwise. Tighten sprocket looking thing when you've got your slack.

How much slack do you have? Your clutch should be engaging close to the lever released. This should make the clutch disengage when you pull the lever. If your cable adjustment at the lever is maxed, you'll need to make adjustment on the other end.
I've done this before once on my nighthawk, but i've got a phobia on doing things myself with the bike that i need to get over. I know this is sorta remedial. Does anyone have a pdf of a good manual that they could send me?

So what you're saying is, if my slack is already engaging close to the lever being fully released, and I cant make an adjustment on the 10mm by going clockwise, I may need to make an adjustment down at the cover?

It feels like it's grabbing close to the end already, maybe just a tad early. I will do what you suggest tomorrow morning in daylight.

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post #7 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 12:05 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneFunJoker View Post
FWIW mine did the same with slack in the cable and when tightened to spec. I only did it a few times as I didn't want to sit there and rev the hell out of it over and over and saw now need to be giving it those kind of RPMs with the clutch in so I never paid too much mind to it. Although mine wasn't a big lunge, just enough to make the bike go forward maybe 1/2 inch or so.
I can't remember why I was revving it at a light with the clutch in tonight in the rain, I should have been just fartin around tonight, but for some reason, I noticed that, and then right afterwards I engaged in first gear, and i got some wheel spin, my rear fishtailed(?) a bit, maybe once to each side, then the tire got grip again, and then i did the test.

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post #8 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 12:14 AM
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The cable end at the lever side goes in with a thread. If you've run out of thread at the lever to tighten , you need to take the cable off the lever and tighten down at the clutch end of the cable. This will back out the cable at the lever side. It's not overly complicated if you look at it.

There shouldn't be too much slack. If the problem is not the cable, you might need to see what's going on in the clutch.

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post #9 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 05:24 AM
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Helpful topics for 919 Owners has a link to a pdf manual. Here is the page on clutch adjustment.
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post #10 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 07:19 AM
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Make sure you have proper cable play after you tighten it. Otherwise your clutch will be slipping. Also check it when clutch is warmed up as plates expend a little.

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post #11 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 07:28 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marylandmike View Post
Helpful topics for 919 Owners has a link to a pdf manual. Here is the page on clutch adjustment.
i copy and paste helpful topics, but search doesn't seem to find it, although i know ive seen that thread, and tried to download a manual after going to it, but i think links were down/dead. If anyone, actually has a pdf manual, re-posting to like mediafire would work, but i need to figure out where the darn thread was first.

Gonna go get some breakfast and then try and make adjustments.


So quick question....if my clutch has not been completely disengaging, and, what i show in the video is just the barest movement at really high rpms, has this been damaging my clutch? could something have slipped recently to account for this? cause I've not noticed it, and the last time someone should have done any clutch adjustment was like a couple months ago.

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post #12 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 07:40 AM
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Don't worry about it. Your bike will be perfectly fine. You would have bigger problems with totally opposite scenario - if your clutch cable is too tight and your plates are slipping. That would burn up your clutch in no time. Put it this way: when your bike is warm and clutch is pulled while in first gear, can you roll it? If yes, you are fine. It's not unusual for 9er to get a little jerk while shifting it into first, even with lever completely to the hand grip and cable adjusted correctly.

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post #13 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sytheii View Post
i copy and paste helpful topics, but search doesn't seem to find it, although i know ive seen that thread, and tried to download a manual after going to it, but i think links were down/dead. If anyone, actually has a pdf manual, re-posting to like mediafire would work, but i need to figure out where the darn thread was first.

Gonna go get some breakfast and then try and make adjustments.


So quick question....if my clutch has not been completely disengaging, and, what i show in the video is just the barest movement at really high rpms, has this been damaging my clutch? could something have slipped recently to account for this? cause I've not noticed it, and the last time someone should have done any clutch adjustment was like a couple months ago.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mokh7m2pgx...-converted.pdf

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post #14 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 08:30 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marylandmike View Post
Good man. Where is that thread anyhoo?

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post #15 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 08:50 AM
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It's a sticky in the Naked Bike Forum

https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...ners-1209.html

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post #16 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 10:52 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaq123 View Post
Don't worry about it. Your bike will be perfectly fine. You would have bigger problems with totally opposite scenario - if your clutch cable is too tight and your plates are slipping. That would burn up your clutch in no time. Put it this way: when your bike is warm and clutch is pulled while in first gear, can you roll it? If yes, you are fine. It's not unusual for 9er to get a little jerk while shifting it into first, even with lever completely to the hand grip and cable adjusted correctly.
Well, if it is fine the way it is, then is that behavior at high RPMS with the clutch in normal?

I loosened the lock, and then turned the adjuster clockwise, a little bit, then tested it, then a little bit more. Eventually i got to a point where the bike was moving forward with the clutch all the way in on its own, without any throttle.

So i guess....go counter clockwise?

I turned it counter clockwise, a bit, then checked, then a bit more, and now the "grabbing" of the clutch is way closer to the clutch lever being completely let go of, i did a test, and from where it was before, it would lurch a bit around 6-7, but now it lurches around 9. Should I go just a little bit farther out?

Ok, so, let me ask a question, are "slack" and "free play" just different terms to describe the same thing? And does that refer to you being able to pull in the clutch lever a little bit without it visibly moving the clutch cable down at the clutch arm? or does it apply to just the cable being loose enough that it isn't completely torqued back to the clutch lever "all the way off" position?

Thanks everyone. Again in advance for more input

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post #17 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 11:39 AM
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In neutral with the clutch lever pulled to the grip all wet clutches will spin up the transmission mainshaft until the clutch friction plates and pressure plates are rotating at the same speed -- essentially "engaged" without being engaged due to the very small clearance between them and the presence of oil acting as an extra frictional element. Once that happens revving the motor will just spin the mainshaft faster without necessarily disengaging the plates. Dropping the trans into 1st at high engine speeds will rotate the rear wheel, especially if the road is wet, until the oil trapped between the plates shears away and the clutch fully disengages. In point of fact it is advised that the engine be at idle speed when shifting into 1st to prevent excessive shock loads on the trans gear engagement dogs. Besides, the best launch from a standing start is done by giving it a little throttle and slipping the clutch just long enough to release the lever completely, then whack the throttle open. The 919's wonderful low and midrange power come into play (especially in 1st!) and it will tag the rev limiter within 2 to 2 1/2 seconds, which is just under 60 MPH. Damn few vehicles come off the line faster, and not one production car that costs less than a half million dollars. If you're doubtful check with Bucky.

As a side note the characteristic CLUNK when engaging 1st only happens when the engine has been running for a while (at least on mine) -- when it is cold and the oil hasn't had a chance to get between the plates yet the shift into 1st is absolutely noise and shock free. I kind of wish it would always be that way, but without a dry clutch it's just not in the mechanical cards.

Rob
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post #18 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 11:51 AM
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Nothing better to start a week off with than reading a Tharlson explanation post. Great stuff as always!

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post #19 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 12:12 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
In neutral with the clutch lever pulled to the grip all wet clutches will spin up the transmission mainshaft until the clutch friction plates and pressure plates are rotating at the same speed -- essentially "engaged" without being engaged due to the very small clearance between them and the presence of oil acting as an extra frictional element. Once that happens revving the motor will just spin the mainshaft faster without necessarily disengaging the plates. Dropping the trans into 1st at high engine speeds will rotate the rear wheel, especially if the road is wet, until the oil trapped between the plates shears away and the clutch fully disengages. In point of fact it is advised that the engine be at idle speed when shifting into 1st to prevent excessive shock loads on the trans gear engagement dogs. Besides, the best launch from a standing start is done by giving it a little throttle and slipping the clutch just long enough to release the lever completely, then whack the throttle open. The 919's wonderful low and midrange power come into play (especially in 1st!) and it will tag the rev limiter within 2 to 2 1/2 seconds, which is just under 60 MPH. Damn few vehicles come off the line faster, and not one production car that costs less than a half million dollars. If you're doubtful check with Bucky.

As a side note the characteristic CLUNK when engaging 1st only happens when the engine has been running for a while (at least on mine) -- when it is cold and the oil hasn't had a chance to get between the plates yet the shift into 1st is absolutely noise and shock free. I kind of wish it would always be that way, but without a dry clutch it's just not in the mechanical cards.

Rob
I dig the explanation, and it makes sense in relation to the story about the wheel spin i spun, but I'm still unsure about whether or not more adjustment needs to be done either at the lever and/or at the clutch arm in regards to the bike moving forward with clutch pedal all the way to the grip, with the bike in 1ST gear (with high engine speed.)

Or did your explanation say that is normal, and I'm just too dense to understand?

:/

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post #20 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 12:29 PM
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Why are you pulling the clutch and revving the bike? Are you doing fast launches? Is your idle set too high?

Yes, slack and free play are the same.

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post #21 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 12:42 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewebay1 View Post
Why are you pulling the clutch and revving the bike? Are you doing fast launches? Is your idle set too high?

Yes, slack and free play are the same.
Idle is fine. No I normally launch pretty mild. It was just a fluke that i noticed in the wet, or maybe the engine sounded funky to me, and i wanted a listen, or maybe i was making noise for somebody at a light, i cant remember what it was exactly, but then i noticed the lurch.

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post #22 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sytheii View Post

A.

And does that refer to you being able to pull in the clutch lever a little bit without it visibly moving the clutch cable down at the clutch arm?

B.

or does it apply to just the cable being loose enough that it isn't completely torqued back to the clutch lever "all the way off" position?
Do either of these define free play?

Or no?

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post #23 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 12:53 PM
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you over analyzing it. As long as you have free play in the lever, you clutch will be engaged - what you really need obviously.
Now, you goal is to adjust the cable so your lever travel will cover clutch disengagement. If your engine doesn't die while in 1st, bike stopped with lever pulled in, your are good - put it this way.

Here is what I would do: adjust cable as per manual both at clutch lever and clutch arm and STOP WORRYING ABOUT IT, you'll be fine. If anything, your free play will be a little wider due to clutch plates not being new or stretched cable.

If you set your cable as per manual, you can also monitor your free play which will let you know when your clutch is worn or cable is stretched.
Don't know what you do with the 9er, but most likely you won't have to worry about worn clutch for a while.

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post #24 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sytheii View Post

Do either of these define free play?

Or no?
No, free play or slack will determine where, for the lack of better term, the arm on the clutch will be at a certain degree of pull on the lever. This will change where the engagement is on your pull

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sytheii View Post
Do either of these define free play?

Or no?
ok ok. Free play - distance that your clutch lever will cover without affecting the clutch arm. Basically slack in the cable if you want to call it that way.

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post #26 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 01:02 PM
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Yea dude calm down with it. Can we interest you on clutchless shifts and throttle bleeps?

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post #27 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 01:02 PM
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too bad 9er doesn't have a hydraulic clutch. No adjustments needed as hydraulic setup is self adjusting. Hopefully by this next spring there will be one 9er with hydraulic setup
No, I don't have any issues with cable setup just moddin'

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post #28 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
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too bad 9er doesn't have a hydraulic clutch. No adjustments needed as hydraulic setup is self adjusting. Hopefully by this next spring there will be one 9er with hydraulic setup
No, I don't have any issues with cable setup just moddin'
Oh I knew this post was coming! Hurry up with the mod so we can all check it out already. I do miss a hydraulic clutch setup. My left and right forearms have evened out ever since I got my 9er, damn near gotta have a kung-fu grip even when lubed proper. Maybe I need a new cable.

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post #29 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 01:16 PM
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sytheii: May I make a suggestion that will stop a bunch of us from headdesking?

http://www.amazon.com/Motorcycles-Fundamentals-Bruce-A-Johns/dp/1566374790/ref=tmm_hrd_title_0

Get the hardcover - that's the actual textbook. The paperback is the workbook and rather useless.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zaq123 View Post
too bad 9er doesn't have a hydraulic clutch. No adjustments needed as hydraulic setup is self adjusting. Hopefully by this next spring there will be one 9er with hydraulic setup
No, I don't have any issues with cable setup just moddin'

This. There are three features my CB700S has that I wish my 919 did - shaft drive, TRAC and a hydraulic clutch. If you figure out how to get one of the latter to work well, I would seriously be interested in doing it. I hate cable clutches.

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post #30 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 01:19 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Yea dude calm down with it. Can we interest you on clutchless shifts and throttle bleeps?
K. Huh?

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post #31 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sytheii

K. Huh?
Never shifted your bike without a clutch?? You probably did, just didn't notice

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post #32 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 01:24 PM
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Seriously, just adjust the clutch per the manual and be done with it.

Also, I think we need to add the Honda Common Service Manual (which explains most motorcycle systems in terms even a graduate of the Los Angeles Unified School District might be able to understand :P) to the helpful info section. I'll get with g00gl3it in a couple.

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post #33 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 01:31 PM Thread Starter
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Well, there's a fair bit of clutch lever travel before it grabs, so i guess I'm fine. I really appreciate y'all answering questions.

And ya, i now have the 919 service manual so ill have something to consult before i dump silly questions on here.

I was just freaked when i noticed it doing that, but i guess its not a big deal.

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post #34 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 01:33 PM
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I am now sending g00g the Common Service Manual (which is Honda's explanation of how everything on their bikes work) to post to help comprehension of this sort of thing. :P

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post #35 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 01:34 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CB700S View Post
Seriously, just adjust the clutch per the manual and be done with it.

Also, I think we need to add the Honda Common Service Manual (which explains most motorcycle systems in terms even a graduate of the Los Angeles Unified School District might be able to understand :P) to the helpful info section. I'll get with g00gl3it in a couple.
FYI, i did most of my schooling in Colorado, Iowa, and Spain. But good on you for the humor/suggestion.

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post #36 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
In neutral with the clutch lever pulled to the grip all wet clutches will spin up the transmission mainshaft until the clutch friction plates and pressure plates are rotating at the same speed -- essentially "engaged" without being engaged due to the very small clearance between them and the presence of oil acting as an extra frictional element. Once that happens revving the motor will just spin the mainshaft faster without necessarily disengaging the plates. Dropping the trans into 1st at high engine speeds will rotate the rear wheel, especially if the road is wet, until the oil trapped between the plates shears away and the clutch fully disengages. In point of fact it is advised that the engine be at idle speed when shifting into 1st to prevent excessive shock loads on the trans gear engagement dogs. Besides, the best launch from a standing start is done by giving it a little throttle and slipping the clutch just long enough to release the lever completely, then whack the throttle open. The 919's wonderful low and midrange power come into play (especially in 1st!) and it will tag the rev limiter within 2 to 2 1/2 seconds, which is just under 60 MPH. Damn few vehicles come off the line faster, and not one production car that costs less than a half million dollars. If you're doubtful check with Bucky.

As a side note the characteristic CLUNK when engaging 1st only happens when the engine has been running for a while (at least on mine) -- when it is cold and the oil hasn't had a chance to get between the plates yet the shift into 1st is absolutely noise and shock free. I kind of wish it would always be that way, but without a dry clutch it's just not in the mechanical cards.

Rob
After reading this, I think I know why the rear tire spins on the stand even when idling in neutral..

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post #37 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sytheii View Post
FYI, i did most of my schooling in Colorado, Iowa, and Spain. But good on you for the humor/suggestion.
Thing is, *I* was a product of the LAUSD school system. I've since gotten better. :P (Much, much, much better.)

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post #38 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 01:37 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CB700S View Post

Thing is, *I* was a product of the LAUSD school system. I've since gotten better. :P (Much, much, much better.)
Ha!

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post #39 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 01:52 PM
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Yeah, we knew where to stick Tab A into Slot B and why Heather Has Two Mommies, but math? What's that? Science, literacy? Forget it.

I learned more in the LA Public Library than I ever did in the LA Unified School District.

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post #40 of 70 Old 12-17-2012, 02:04 PM
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Common Service manual is available under the 919 folder in this Dropbox link:

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