Battery Problem - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 29 Old 11-24-2017, 11:03 PM Thread Starter
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Battery Problem

I must be doing something wrong. The OEM battery lasted from the showroom floor in '06 til march of 2015. It was perfect, until one day, nothing.

I bought the exact same battery. This one lasted from march 2015 until about september 2017, or about 25k miles. However, I first noticed it was getting weak in spring 2017 when I was in a drivethru, and i turned off the bike to talk to my friend while we waited for food, with the light still on, for about 3 minutes. I started the bike up after getting food, parked and then we decided to eat. After about an hour, the bike cooled down (it was about 65 degrees out at that time) and my bike did not start. I had to do the ole' fashioned bump start.

From then on, I didn't leave my light on. My friend's 919 did not have an issue, it started right up after leaving it on for 5 minutes. At this point, if the battery is FULLY charged, I get about 5 seconds of cranking before its completely discharged again. If it doesn't start within those first two seconds, it no longer has enough power to start and all 5'5" of me has to sprint a 480 pound bike down the block to get it started again so I can get to school. I'm kind of getting tired of doing that. I even pull a couple of the fuses for some extra juice since I had to do the headlight solder fix.

So, my first question is, am I doing something wrong that makes my battery last only a year before it starts to die? I ride it at LEAST 5 days a week, year round. No battery tender. I do use heated gear now as it is winter, which draws about 100 watts, but I started this after the battery had already shit itself.

Secondly, what can I do to maximize the lifespan of my battery?

Third, are there any alternatives to the yausa battery? Or should I just stick with it and hope the next one does not shit out on me again.

Yeah, this sucks. I have like no money and my front tire is basically bald now too. I gotta buy a new battery, that's obvious. I just don't wanna run into problems like this in the future

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post #2 of 29 Old 11-25-2017, 04:17 AM
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I wish the light didn't come on until the bike was running. You can load test the battery, but the best bet is to check the fluid level, add water as needed, clean connections, etc... Then do a low amp charge overnight. If you don't have a low amp battery maintainer, you should get one.

Be careful how long the key is on before you start the bike. I turned mine to on, then waited to start maybe 30 seconds or so and that's all it took.

Getting near 10 years from a battery is unreal. I'd expect 1/2 that to be good. I'm maybe 4~5 years on mine, I got it when I got the bike. I had to jump it about a year ago, only one time.

Tell us about the usage, if you don't use it every few days, it needs to be on a charger. A 'tender' type is cheap and has a disconnect clip.

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post #3 of 29 Old 11-25-2017, 07:40 AM
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I had the same issue two times. I bought in both occasions the original yuasa battery YTZ10S and the batteries not last as long.

Then I decided to try another brand, I bought a PowerSonic (very know brand on the UPS systems). I bought the model PTZ10S, is already 4 years old with no issues, and is a lot cheaper.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanktm View Post
I must be doing something wrong. The OEM battery lasted from the showroom floor in '06 til march of 2015. It was perfect, until one day, nothing.

I bought the exact same battery. This one lasted from march 2015 until about september 2017, or about 25k miles. However, I first noticed it was getting weak in spring 2017 when I was in a drivethru, and i turned off the bike to talk to my friend while we waited for food, with the light still on, for about 3 minutes. I started the bike up after getting food, parked and then we decided to eat. After about an hour, the bike cooled down (it was about 65 degrees out at that time) and my bike did not start. I had to do the ole' fashioned bump start.

From then on, I didn't leave my light on. My friend's 919 did not have an issue, it started right up after leaving it on for 5 minutes. At this point, if the battery is FULLY charged, I get about 5 seconds of cranking before its completely discharged again. If it doesn't start within those first two seconds, it no longer has enough power to start and all 5'5" of me has to sprint a 480 pound bike down the block to get it started again so I can get to school. I'm kind of getting tired of doing that. I even pull a couple of the fuses for some extra juice since I had to do the headlight solder fix.

So, my first question is, am I doing something wrong that makes my battery last only a year before it starts to die? I ride it at LEAST 5 days a week, year round. No battery tender. I do use heated gear now as it is winter, which draws about 100 watts, but I started this after the battery had already shit itself.

Secondly, what can I do to maximize the lifespan of my battery?

Third, are there any alternatives to the yausa battery? Or should I just stick with it and hope the next one does not shit out on me again.

Yeah, this sucks. I have like no money and my front tire is basically bald now too. I gotta buy a new battery, that's obvious. I just don't wanna run into problems like this in the future

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post #4 of 29 Old 11-25-2017, 12:54 PM
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Sounds like typical lead acid battery death. Some last for many years and some a few. The lead plates are very thin and are easy too damage and sulphate. Lead acid batteries must be maintained at full charge. Every time you discharged a lead acid battery you shorten it's life.
I reckon you got lucky with that first battery, did you ever completely flatten it? and maybe unlucky with the second. I reckon when you left your bikes light on the battery was damaged. Most lead acid battery damage is permanent although a good battery tender may be able to recondition a little, by desulphating the plates.
Also jump starting a bike with a dead flat battery is probably not good for the battery or the alternator. The bikes alternator is for battery maintenance and not for charging a battery from flat. Might be worthwhile checking your alternator to see if it is OK and is charging your battery.
If you don't already have one get a battery tender. It's the best way to maintain your lead acid battery.
Since you have little to spend get another lead acid. The cheaper lead acid batteries are OK but get a tender. Do you park in the sun? A solar tender might be good.
I had a cheap lead/acid for a couple of years, no problem. I replaced it with a lithium battery and keep the lead acid on a tender as a spare. The brand of lead acid is Motobatt.
I too have had Yuasa batteries last for years and others die quickly. Yuasa definitely don't like being completely flattened. I have completely flatten the Motobatt before with the headlight but it charged up fine. Lucky?

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post #5 of 29 Old 11-26-2017, 01:01 PM
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I've have great luck with Shorai batteries. Right now, I have at least 6 of them. They cost more, weigh next to nothing, and crank forever. I had a Shorai in my old Super Duke for 5 or 6 years. It still worked fine, but it was getting old, so I replaced it with another new Shorai. I gave the old battery to a friend, who put it in a Honda Rubicon, with a wench. The last I heard, it's still going strong.

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post #6 of 29 Old 11-28-2017, 08:58 PM Thread Starter
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We'll try this one

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post #7 of 29 Old 11-29-2017, 03:25 AM
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Hellva deal there. I paid some $60 for mine. Remember to do a full, overnight low amp charge at the start.

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post #8 of 29 Old 11-29-2017, 08:18 AM
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Motobatt gets my vote. AGM high CCA, double terminals for both positive and negative sides. - and $60...
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post #9 of 29 Old 11-29-2017, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanktm View Post


We'll try this one
That is crazy cheap. You should get two!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nealio919 View Post
Motobatt gets my vote. AGM high CCA, double terminals for both positive and negative sides. - and $60...
Yep to that.
Only reason I'm not using my Motobatt battery is because I brought a ridiculously expensive lithium battery in an attempt to fix my cold start issue. The Motobatt was a great battery, worked and lasted well. I flattened it a few times with the head light and it still took a full charge. The lithium battery was very expensive, weighs next to nothing, doesn't require a tender and cranks my bike over wicked fast.
Loved my Motobatt. I keep it on a tender incase the lithium explodes or something.
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post #10 of 29 Old 11-29-2017, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
That is crazy cheap. You should get two!




Yep to that.
Only reason I'm not using my Motobatt battery is because I brought a ridiculously expensive lithium battery in an attempt to fix my cold start issue. The Motobatt was a great battery, worked and lasted well. I flattened it a few times with the head light and it still took a full charge. The lithium battery was very expensive, weighs next to nothing, doesn't require a tender and cranks my bike over wicked fast.
Loved my Motobatt. I keep it on a tender incase the lithium explodes or something.
You have a part number for that lithium? Im looking for any weight savings I can get on the turbo bike...

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post #11 of 29 Old 11-29-2017, 05:22 PM
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It probably won't help you mate. It's an aussie made battery.
SSB Powersport lithium LHZ10-S
Cold crank amps 400
Weighs like an empty plastic case!

I'm sure someone here will put you onto a US made one. Although with the low weight I could post one easy enough.
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post #12 of 29 Old 11-29-2017, 09:12 PM
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Here is a link for the type of lithium battery I brought on ebay.
Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/331779478842

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post #13 of 29 Old 11-30-2017, 08:10 AM
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Perfect! Thanks!

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post #14 of 29 Old 11-30-2017, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
Here is a link for the type of lithium battery I brought on ebay.
Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/331779478842
WOW, why would anyone pay that much money for a lighter battery? That's a huge price. I get it's AU, but just a quick search shows those going for > $100 by quite a bit.

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post #15 of 29 Old 11-30-2017, 08:47 PM
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Yeah I hear ya. I didn't really want to pay $300 for a battery. I didn't do it to save weight, I did it out of frustration trying to fix my cold start issue. At the time dynajet told me my cold start issue was a power supply problem. My Motobatt battery was OK, just a little old and tired. I thought by using a new strong battery I could fix it. I could have got a cheaper lithium battery, see link. But I brought the most expensive since it had the highest cold crank amps.
Didn't fix cold start. But turns over very fast. In hind sight I would have gone for the cheaper model, lower CCA.

Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/331779478770.

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post #16 of 29 Old 12-01-2017, 02:48 AM
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Quote:
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Yeah I hear ya. I didn't really want to pay $300 for a battery. I didn't do it to save weight, I did it out of frustration trying to fix my cold start issue. At the time dynajet told me my cold start issue was a power supply problem. My Motobatt battery was OK, just a little old and tired. I thought by using a new strong battery I could fix it. I could have got a cheaper lithium battery, see link. But I brought the most expensive since it had the highest cold crank amps.
Didn't fix cold start. But turns over very fast. In hind sight I would have gone for the cheaper model, lower CCA.

Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/331779478770.
That sounds like pure BS. Dynajet is saying you need more CCA? Why can't they program the thing to work exactly like stock?

On my other bike I put in a relay so that it gets more power to the starter. I'm kinda surprised there isn't an inline cap for these starters and a timer to disconnect the lights while starting. I know the light flickers off while cranking, but it really should be off until running.

Off until running, little bit bigger battery, inline cap and keep the factory cold start specs and you shouldn't have a problem.

Was that cold start issue ever fixed without the ultra expensive battery?

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post #17 of 29 Old 12-01-2017, 03:35 AM
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Well I contacted dynajet about my cold start issue many times. My pc111usb was new and within warranty. A test and replacement was offered. I had to pay freight both ways. But I was told it was a waste of time as the unit would test out fine. Because it was a power supply issue. Somehow the bike was at fault. That was it. They couldn't actually tell me what was wrong. They did suggest a new strong battery and powering the pc111usb with another 12v bike battery.
I took it upon myself to buy a very high CCA battery. Dynajet didnt suggest that.
The new $300 lithium high CCA battery didn't fix my cold start issue. A 10 cent diode fix it immediately. Gone for good. Even the old tired Motobatt, no cold start issue. Another forum member posted a potential diode shunt fix for the cold start issue. A negative voltage spike at startup up was the cause. Brilliant fix.
Now I have it and the money's long gone I'm happy with the battery. Starts real strong. See how long it lasts. I have literally gone through dozen's of lead acid batteries in my gear over the years so a lithium battery might be a good change. But like I said in hind sight I would have gone for a lower CCA battery. Same brand just cheaper. I don't see the need for such high CCA for the 919. Seems to turn over and start easy enough even on cheap arse batteries.
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post #18 of 29 Old 12-01-2017, 08:41 AM
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FWIW I have done the diode shunt to both bikes and the cold start problem has never returned.

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post #19 of 29 Old 12-01-2017, 09:36 AM
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Good to know they don't stand behind their product. Someone should call them on it. I hate when products like that fail.

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post #20 of 29 Old 12-01-2017, 11:57 AM
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Its due to flyback voltage found in the OEM Honda harness. Not the fault of the the PCIII, they just failed to recognize it was a cold start issue and do not want to recall the units...
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post #21 of 29 Old 12-01-2017, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
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Good to know they don't stand behind their product. Someone should call them on it. I hate when products like that fail.
How can you say they don't support their product?
There is plenty of evidence otherwise and over the years through to today.
Including some personal experiences I have had with them.

Not lost on me is having never heard once over the years of anything other than the 919 having the issue.
Meanwhile the units are relatively standard and are merely customized by the model specific connection needs in order to net being model specific.

My take on it remains the same, in that some, not all, 919s display the so called Cold Start issue.
Some experiencing were able to skirt it by careful use of the right hand.
Others couldn't.
PCiiiUSB seem to be mostly involved, as compared to the old Serial Port version, but I'm hesitant to read too much into that as the respective populations might be skewing the perception.
It seems 919 specific.
Thankfully we have Mr. Tharslon who figured it out, developed a solution, and Islandboy who executed and proved it out.

I don't see this one at all being in the "publicly accuse and knock the supplier re his product".
So we shouldn't.

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post #22 of 29 Old 12-01-2017, 04:05 PM
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In dynajets defence they did offer to replace my pc111usb. They answered all my emails, except the last regarding the diode shunt.
It's been a great tool, allowing me to sort out fuelling issues and getting the bike to run how I like it.
The cold start issue was very frustrating and I did spend a lot of money trying to sort it out. Turns out a 10 cent diode did the trick.
That the best thing about forum's like this. Problems are discussed and solutions shared.

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post #23 of 29 Old 12-01-2017, 06:20 PM
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If you Google "PCIII Cold Start Issue", there are a ton of other bikes (Honda, Yamahas, Harley, Victory, Aprilia, Suzuki, Kawi) that reported it. Rob should make a "shunt kit" and offer it for sale. He could probably sell quite a few.

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post #24 of 29 Old 12-01-2017, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
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If you Google "PCIII Cold Start Issue", there are a ton of other bikes (Honda, Yamahas, Harley, Victory, Aprilia, Suzuki, Kawi) that reported it. Rob should make a "shunt kit" and offer it for sale. He could probably sell quite a few.
I stand corrected.
I did not know that.
What would be interesting to know is what % of all the installed units fitted to bikes actually starting in a cold mode, actually displayed the problem.
Excellent idea re the Shunt Kit, and I hope Mr. Tharlson sees it and does something with it.

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post #25 of 29 Old 12-03-2017, 04:31 AM Thread Starter
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17 dollar battery works

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post #26 of 29 Old 12-03-2017, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
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17 dollar battery works
What was the total costs and did it ship with the acid so that you add the acid? The reason I ask is that you can buy a spare and store it for later use. At $17 it's worth buying one just to have a spare because we'll all need one someday.

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post #27 of 29 Old 12-03-2017, 06:36 AM Thread Starter
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It was 29 dollars including shipping

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post #28 of 29 Old 12-03-2017, 04:29 PM
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I just expect the battery to last 2 years and buy them on ebay for $20-$30 A trickle charger helps too

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post #29 of 29 Old 12-03-2017, 04:53 PM Thread Starter
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Yep, bought one of those too. Already had the battery tender hookup for my phone so I figured I might as well.

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