Bad noise from fuel pump i think - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 43 Old 12-08-2012, 09:25 AM Thread Starter
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So, I'm having some issues with my bike, not sure if its from my install of a new fpr or something else, ill just copy the posts i made in another thread.

Having trouble transferring post from other thread so here's where i start talking about it.

https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...tml#post532212

Quote:
Originally Posted by sytheii View Post

Hey PV and others, I really think something is wrong/different since I replaced the FPR. I know that I can be strange and neurotic at times with things like this, but I am fairly sure that the sound I am hearing is not normal.

It sounds like the fuel pump is constantly making a priming noise, and now its really high pitched, and seems to fluctuate depending on the amount of throttle applied.

I don't want to ignore the possibility that I f'ed something up, and make it worse.

Did I pinch a vacuum tube? Might this happen if the vacuum tube on the FPR wasn't all the way on? Is my fuel pump dieing?

I am going to rise early and prop the tank up again and see if I cannot see if at least the FPR looks to be fine, vacuum tube and fuel line secure and then look and see if anything looks amiss.

Please listen here and tell me I'm not hearing something wrong.

High pitched continuous whine - YouTube

Thanks in advance.

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post #2 of 43 Old 12-08-2012, 09:32 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sytheii View Post
Well, i pulled everything off, then put it back on. I thought perhaps that i didn't tighten then two 8mm bolts enough, but its seated well now, vacuum hose is on tight, not twisted up, put everything back in order.

Still making the same noise, and it ain't happy.

Then i got to thinking...

Maybe i did break something

The noise is coming from this location...



ForumRunner_20121208_093224.jpg



Is this circular copper thing the fuel pump? Did that accidental electrical kiss damage it?
Any thoughts?

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post #3 of 43 Old 12-08-2012, 09:34 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewebay1 View Post
I don't recall seeing a white/brown piece on my vac lines... What is that? Also you might get more people looking at your problem if you start another thread instead of posting on this one
Ya i should know better, thanks.

What are you making reference to?

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post #4 of 43 Old 12-08-2012, 09:39 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sytheii View Post

Ya i should know better, thanks.

What are you making reference to?
Oh i see what your talking about. Honestly i have no clue. Perhaps a CA model something or other?

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post #5 of 43 Old 12-08-2012, 09:56 AM
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do you have the old FPR?

put that back on and see if it has the same noise... because that does not sound right... sounds like the pump is working real hard, almost as if the fpr is blocking everything from returning to the tank.

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post #6 of 43 Old 12-08-2012, 10:59 AM
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^ That sounds like a good thing to try, might be the new FPR doing too much regulating.

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post #7 of 43 Old 12-08-2012, 11:08 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewebay1 View Post
^ That sounds like a good thing to try, might be the new FPR doing too much regulating.
Is that sarcasm? the reason I mean.

I will definitely give that a try, and see if it clears up the problem, but my gut tells me that it won't solve the issue. I don't see why it would be the reason (i checked the part #, and it is right, unless I was wrong in my choice,

Quote:
Originally Posted by sytheii View Post
I believe this is the part # 16740-mcz-013

http://www.hondapartshouse.com/honda-parts.aspx?aribrand=HOM#/s/HOM/CB900F_AC_(03)_MOTORCYCLE%2C_JPN%2C_VIN%23_JH2SC48 1-3M100001_TO_JH2SC481-3M199999/16740-mcz-013/1

Thats for my vin set , the 481s...not the 480s, anyome know the difference twixt the two?

Also, tapatalk seems to be out of commission on my galaxy nexus... whats up with that?
Right after I installed the new one, the fuel pump priming noise was golden, steady, like a nice hum.

After two days, i start noticing the fuel pump making a continuous noise that sounds really icky.

I am just throwing out ideas/questions, what might logically follow, ie what has changed/been improved due to replacing the regulator that would cause the fuel pump to sound like that?

The only 3 things i can think of are

1. possibly that some sort of grit got into the new one when i did the install...but i think that unlikely

2. the new fpr part is faulty

3. i damaged either the fuel pump or maybe the fuel pump relay, when i brushed the battery terminal on the fuel line

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post #8 of 43 Old 12-08-2012, 11:12 AM
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Not at all, it's the last thing you changed and the reason does seem....reasonable. A faulty FPR will leak fuel into the vacuum lines, but your new FPR might be defective and putting too much load on the pump.

Someone posted a picture of a faulty 919 FPR taken apart. There's a spring attached to rubber/silicone ring and that spring could be stuck.

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- '01 RC51 SP1 (Sold)
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post #9 of 43 Old 12-08-2012, 11:31 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewebay1 View Post
Not at all, it's the last thing you changed and the reason does seem....reasonable. A faulty FPR will leak fuel into the vacuum lines, but your new FPR might be defective and putting too much load on the pump.

Someone posted a picture of a faulty 919 FPR taken apart. There's a spring attached to rubber/silicone ring and that spring could be stuck.
K, Not meaning to sound like i know nuthin or nuthin, but with ya'll comments n jokes about sand and bricks on chains and stuff, sometimes i have to figure out whether or not the comment is humor Obvious at times, and sometimes not Just doing a double check since I'm looking for advice, not a laugh or 3

If the part is indeed faulty...have I caused damage to the bike by using it for two days with the bad part on it?

I left it in my buds garage, he's gonna drop if of in a bit, hopefully I can pop it on before I need to go to work.

I was looking at the whole setup and trying to figure out what each connecting part does...

Gas line, is this the return line back to the tank? and vacuum hose, this supplies the correct pressure so just the right amount goes...what...downward? into ...the rail like thing that connects to it?


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post #10 of 43 Old 12-08-2012, 12:53 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks to andrewebay and nd4spdbh.

I put the old FPR back on and its fine. No whine. Nothing. So I scratched my head a bit, and tried to puzzle out what was wrong. Of course I am doing all of this stuff under the impression that I have the correct part...

So I noticed early on that the gasket for the new FPR is slightly different. It has a flat rubber seal, as opposed to the older one which uses an o-ring seal.

I figured that the difference in seal was just the "new and improved" version, perhaps that was naive of me

Although I double checked again, and the part # is correct, and my VIN # series matches up to the part that I ordered, but what they sent me is obviously slightly different.

Perhaps they sent me the wrong series part, I dunno.

The only difference besides the seal is a couple letters and #'s at the bottom right side of the unit.

Old FPR says QK04 or perhaps Q104...which seems more likely, I can't tell and didn't want to prop tank again to check.



the new one says Q103.



So...I guess I will call up the parts store and bitch at them, get them to swap the parts for me.

Thanks guys for holding my hand, shoving me in the right direction. It's a learning curve I suppose

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post #11 of 43 Old 12-08-2012, 02:38 PM
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That looks like the right part number... here's when I did mine. I don't remember what type of seal but the new and old did match if I remember correctly. No difference besides the new one being black (?).

Here's my thread with the pic of the part #. See if it matches up: https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...tml#post512552

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----------------
------------
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- '01 RC51 SP1 (Sold)
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post #12 of 43 Old 12-08-2012, 03:25 PM
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I have to dig out my spare FPR to check the #'s now... Glad you got it figured out!

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post #13 of 43 Old 12-08-2012, 04:01 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewebay1 View Post
That looks like the right part number... here's when I did mine. I don't remember what type of seal but the new and old did match if I remember correctly. No difference besides the new one being black (?).

Here's my thread with the pic of the part #. See if it matches up: https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...tml#post512552
It appears to be the same part # although the pic is a little blurry. I don't get it really with the 919s.

When i ordered the part, they listed 2 vin # options for the part. I go to other sites and it just gives you 919 for model, other times its 900f.

And here, i swear i bought the part here...

http://www.hondapartshouse.com/honda...6740-mcz-013/1

They changed things around and now there are two options, 900F A, and 900f AC. Wtf is that?

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post #14 of 43 Old 12-08-2012, 04:03 PM
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California model?

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post #15 of 43 Old 12-08-2012, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmb View Post
I have to dig out my spare FPR to check the #'s now... Glad you got it figured out!
Please do! And if possible, check for the 4 char. alphanumeric code on the right side? I've got an 03, so maybe there're multiple types? ::

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post #16 of 43 Old 12-08-2012, 05:25 PM
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16740-MCZ-013, BF23.

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post #17 of 43 Old 12-08-2012, 05:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmb View Post
16740-MCZ-013, BF23.
What's the BF23?

Oh. Is that the 4 char? What year bike?

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post #18 of 43 Old 12-08-2012, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sytheii View Post
What's the BF23?

Oh. Is that the 4 char? What year bike?
Yep, I ordered it from Motosport, through their OEM parts finder for a 2007.

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post #19 of 43 Old 12-08-2012, 05:45 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmb View Post

Yep, I ordered it from Motosport, through their OEM parts finder for a 2007.
I am going to get on the phone with the company and or Honda and see what the difference is, I'm thinking now that they gave me wrong year maybe.

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post #20 of 43 Old 12-08-2012, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sytheii View Post
I am going to get on the phone with the company and or Honda and see what the difference is, I'm thinking now that they gave me wrong year maybe.
Wouldn't it be the same for all years? This is interesting, do keep us posted!

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post #21 of 43 Old 12-08-2012, 11:09 PM
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^ That's what I'm thinking. What's the difference?! I'm surprised about the different gaskets even.

I guess I lucked out when I got mine from E-bay for cheap.

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- '96 Race-retired GSXR 750 (Sold)
- '01 RC51 SP1 (Sold)
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post #22 of 43 Old 12-08-2012, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sytheii View Post
It appears to be the same part # although the pic is a little blurry. I don't get it really with the 919s.

When i ordered the part, they listed 2 vin # options for the part. I go to other sites and it just gives you 919 for model, other times its 900f.

And here, i swear i bought the part here...

OEM Honda Parts, Engine, Motor and Racing Performance Dealer Parts | Babbitts Honda Parts House

They changed things around and now there are two options, 900F A, and 900f AC. Wtf is that?
C is the California model, IIRC. Also sometimes designated by an L in the model name/number and a slightly different VIN. Here's an example:





After all, L is being appropriately used for "Losers" and "Lame" with regards to California emissions. :P But I guess someone complained, so they changed it. (Yes, California versions can have different engines sometimes, too.)

Also, Honda *really* needs to come up with an updated identification guide. I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

1986 Honda Nighthawk 700S
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post #23 of 43 Old 12-09-2012, 09:56 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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C is the California model, IIRC. Also sometimes designated by an L in the model name/number and a slightly different VIN. Here's an example:

After all, L is being appropriately used for "Losers" and "Lame" with regards to California emissions. :P But I guess someone complained, so they changed it. (Yes, California versions can have different engines sometimes, too.)

Also, Honda *really* needs to come up with an updated identification guide. I'd buy one in a heartbeat.
This is informative info on the Nighthawk, but does it apply to the 919 as well? But i still don't understand the A, or AC. Like, action! action California! Why have the A at all if there are zero distinctions

apart from Calinornia-ness or lack thereof?

Aggravated, Aggravated Californian?

Won't be able to make inquiries till the Moonday, but hopefully Ill have some answers and the right part soon.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sytheii View Post
This is informative info on the Nighthawk, but does it apply to the 919 as well? But i still don't understand the A, or AC. Like, action! action California! Why have the A at all if there are zero distinctions

apart from Calinornia-ness or lack thereof?

Aggravated, Aggravated Californian?

Won't be able to make inquiries till the Moonday, but hopefully Ill have some answers and the right part soon.
Yes, it does apply. A is the US 49 state model, as the US version is more than a little different from the one sold in the rest of the world. The C suffix added to that indicates a California model.

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post #25 of 43 Old 12-09-2012, 02:10 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Yes, it does apply. A is the US 49 state model, as the US version is more than a little different from the one sold in the rest of the world. The C suffix added to that indicates a California model.
Aha!

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post #26 of 43 Old 12-09-2012, 03:35 PM
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A = American
C = California

Hence why all the American models of bikes have an A... and the California models have AC (American region, California model)

and fyi... the part number for FPR for ALL 919's regardless of year or area is 16740-MCZ-013

and the part number for all years and region of american 919's for the oring is the same - 16741-PG7-005


the Q103 and Q104 that your seeing is more than likely some date code when the part was manufactured. What it really sounds like is that the new fpr is stuck full shut so as to not let any fuel return to the tank, putting quite a load on the pump. One way to check this would be to keep the return line unplugged from the fpr and turn the bike on and see if when it primes if fuel comes out the FPR... NOTE, it will SHOOT fuel out pretty good

Can you get us a pic of the "different oring"

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post #27 of 43 Old 12-09-2012, 06:18 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
A = American
C = California

Hence why all the American models of bikes have an A... and the California models have AC (American region, California model)

and fyi... the part number for FPR for ALL 919's regardless of year or area is 16740-MCZ-013

and the part number for all years and region of american 919's for the oring is the same - 16741-PG7-005

the Q103 and Q104 that your seeing is more than likely some date code when the part was manufactured. What it really sounds like is that the new fpr is stuck full shut so as to not let any fuel return to the tank, putting quite a load on the pump. One way to check this would be to keep the return line unplugged from the fpr and turn the bike on and see if when it primes if fuel comes out the FPR... NOTE, it will SHOOT fuel out pretty good

Can you get us a pic of the "different oring"
Good info, though from a probabilities standpoint (logically speaking) without any knowledge about anything whatsoever factored in, it seems unlikely that i would receive a part that is designed different than the one i have on the bike originally(compounded by) as well as being faulty...that just doesn't jive.

Also, the language I used was "seal" since this one doesn't have the standard o-ring look.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sytheii View Post
...So I noticed early on that the gasket for the new FPR is slightly different. It has a flat rubber seal, as opposed to the older one which uses an o-ring seal.

I figured that the difference in seal was just the "new and improved" version, perhaps that was naive of me "


ForumRunner_20121209_181822.jpg

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post #28 of 43 Old 12-09-2012, 06:22 PM Thread Starter
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Also i goofed, its not Q its C


ForumRunner_20121209_182232.jpg

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post #29 of 43 Old 12-09-2012, 07:05 PM
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Is that a plug that is supposed to be removed before install?

Edit: I think you need to remove the plug in the pic in post #27 to reveal the O ring seal.

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post #30 of 43 Old 12-09-2012, 07:06 PM
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..... Lol

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----------------
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- '96 Race-retired GSXR 750 (Sold)
- '01 RC51 SP1 (Sold)
- '03 919

"Security is mostly a superstition, it does not exist in nature: avoiding danger in the long run is no safer than outright being exposed. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."-Helen Keller
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post #31 of 43 Old 12-09-2012, 07:20 PM Thread Starter
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My face is as red as a beet, but I'm laughing too.

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post #32 of 43 Old 12-09-2012, 07:31 PM Thread Starter
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doh!

From a probability standpoint, how likely is it that sytheii guy would install a fuel pressure regulator with the plastic cap still on?

100%

Edit: somehow i feel like ya'll knew and were just waiting for the punchline lol

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post #33 of 43 Old 12-09-2012, 07:52 PM
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Well, that solves that mystery! No sweat sytheii, most of us have done worse lol.

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post #34 of 43 Old 12-09-2012, 08:45 PM
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LOLOL

now just make sure to fip your kill switch to run so we dont have a why isnt my bike starting thread. :-P

Now rnt you glad i asked for the pic of the "bad" FPR?

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post #35 of 43 Old 12-09-2012, 09:20 PM
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Well now I question if the fpr I bought was new. I don't remember a cap and mine is painted or powder coated black.

My classified(s):
Nothing at the moment

----------------
------------
---------
------
---
- '96 Race-retired GSXR 750 (Sold)
- '01 RC51 SP1 (Sold)
- '03 919

"Security is mostly a superstition, it does not exist in nature: avoiding danger in the long run is no safer than outright being exposed. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."-Helen Keller
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post #36 of 43 Old 12-09-2012, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewebay1 View Post
Well now I question if the fpr I bought was new. I don't remember a cap and mine is painted or powder coated black.
cant say i have EVER seen a black FPR in any of the pictures / in person off any FI'd honda

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post #37 of 43 Old 12-09-2012, 11:20 PM
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HAHAHA. at least you didn't drill a hole through your ecu. I'm still laughing about that

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post #38 of 43 Old 12-09-2012, 11:36 PM
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HAHAHA. at least you didn't drill a hole through your ecu. I'm still laughing about that
all about those weight saving speed holes man.

just like the aerodynamic enhancment throttle side tank dent fixed with a big band aid thing i got going on on my bike.

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post #39 of 43 Old 12-10-2012, 09:12 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post

all about those weight saving speed holes man.

just like the aerodynamic enhancment throttle side tank dent fixed with a big band aid thing i got going on on my bike.
Haha pic?!

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post #40 of 43 Old 12-10-2012, 09:24 AM Thread Starter
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Well, i am now an expert at installing and removing a fuel pressure regulator (time wise.)

Got the old one off, and put the new on again, sans the little plastic dust cover :/

Started it up, sounds dandy.

I did notice some dripping fluid right after i propped the tank, but it smells and feels like water, figured it was some condensation(morning dew) that had collected somewhere and dripped down after i propped it up.



ForumRunner_20121210_092444.jpg



All in all it took me like 10 minutes.

The reason i decided to tackle this on my own is because when i asked my mechanic how much they would charge me to replace the fpr, they quoted me 2 hours of labour, plus the cost of the part.

I had popped the question about the work after me asking in the other thread how long it would take to do, and believe it or not, these guys actually laughed when i told them some forum guys said it took about 30 mins. They were like, " Ya right."

All i could figure from that exchange is they didn't know, and were quoting high, or that they like to fcuk over people for their money.

So I've decided from here on out, if i can do it myself, i will, even if i screw up the first go

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