Anyone have their bike jump out of 1st to N? - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 34 Old 10-26-2017, 06:07 PM Thread Starter
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Anyone have their bike jump out of 1st to N?

I've never had this happen before with the 919, but the CB700S did it before I replaced the shift forks. What happens is that I'll be in 1st, apply power, then coast, it then jumps into N.

I just noticed it today and I'm not sure if it's a fluke, maybe I wasn't fully in gear or something.

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post #2 of 34 Old 10-26-2017, 06:34 PM
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clutch not tight enough? so it just jumps ?
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post #3 of 34 Old 10-26-2017, 07:38 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ewmin3m View Post
clutch not tight enough? so it just jumps ?
I did notice that the clutch cable is in need of lube. I have to push the lever back out, but that shouldn't cause it to slip out of gear.

I'm going to remove the cable and shoot some lube down there, but I really don't see how that would cause it to slip out of gear.

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post #4 of 34 Old 10-26-2017, 08:01 PM
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Bet your tight/sticking clutch cable is the cause of your problems.

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post #5 of 34 Old 10-26-2017, 08:25 PM
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mine used to slip if I gave it the spanking in third gear above 3-4k rpm... turns out clutch cable was too tight so obviously it wouldn't hold the gear properly
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Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
I did notice that the clutch cable is in need of lube. I have to push the lever back out, but that shouldn't cause it to slip out of gear.

I'm going to remove the cable and shoot some lube down there, but I really don't see how that would cause it to slip out of gear.

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post #6 of 34 Old 10-27-2017, 08:07 AM
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Im betting its a cable problem also. I have had a false neutral between 5th and 6th gears on several occasions. Not sure what the cause is but this gearbox is very "clunky" compared to the cb1000r...
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post #7 of 34 Old 10-27-2017, 11:02 AM
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I get a false neutral between 5th and 6th sometimes also. I'm pretty sure it's mostly rider error but I believe it's an easy error to make with this gearbox. When it happens it's usually when I attempt to change from 5th to 6th with a lot of revs on the engine. And a fast, sloppy gear change sometimes result in a missed gear, a lot of noise and a little embarrassment. I try to change at around 5000 rpm and be real positive that the gearbox did select 6th gear before clutch release/applying throttle. I've also moved gear lever down quite a bit so I can apply a more positive lift to the gear lever. I also find the gearbox clunky when warm but only for gear change 1st to 2nd, and a bit less 2nd to 3rd. When cold gear box snicks into first real smooth and quiet. When warm I usually hold clutch in for ten seconds before selecting 1st. I will then pretty much select second once I'm moving. I find the gearbox clunky changing from 1st to 2nd with a lot of revs on the engine. The 919 is a torque monster and will pull well, even in a high gear from low revs. I usually change gears at low revs. When changing at high revs gearbox seems clunky in low gears and easy to make a mistake between 5th and 6th.
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post #8 of 34 Old 10-27-2017, 11:11 AM
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I don't completely remove cable from bike to lube. I just let it go from the handle bar. I sometimes don't even do that. I lean left handlebar up and slowly drip a little oil into a small gap. The gap is at the handlebar adjustment for the cable where it attaches. You can see the braided metal cable sliding through. After a while oil will come out the other end down at the gearbox. You can only get a couple of drops in at a time. I sometimes work the lever to get oil to move quicker.
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post #9 of 34 Old 10-27-2017, 12:14 PM
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I agree with you. I feel its my error as well. I got spoiled with the CB1000R because the gearbox is absolutely flawless, also if it matters it has more torque pull down lower than the 919- however, when my 919 turbo bike gets here it will dominate both...

Im going to try some aftermarket rear sets to get more throw with the engagement lever.
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post #10 of 34 Old 10-27-2017, 01:31 PM Thread Starter
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Went out today and didn't have any problem. I was even more aggressive and not one error. I'm wondering if my foot tapped the shifter and I didn't notice. I wear steel toe boots, so maybe it was all my fault.

The reason for the doubt on the clutch cable is that when I had to replace the shift forks on the CB700S, I saw exactly how it works.


The spring tension from the drum is what keeps it in gear. When the forks or nubs are worn, they don't push as hard/far into each other, so they pop out and give the false N or shift.

The clutch cable is just the tension of the throwout bearing against the clutch pack. If you ride the clutch lever, that effects the amount of torque on the gears and that can cause worn nubs to kick out, but that doesn't move the drum.


The difference between a "false N" and a "shift" is the movement of the drum. The clutch cable isn't going to move the drum.
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post #11 of 34 Old 10-27-2017, 02:02 PM
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Maybe a combination of sticking cable and a unintended foot lift. You only need a half lift to find neutral from first. Also if you were on then off the gas hard that might move the gear lever against your foot as the bike lifts then drops.

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post #12 of 34 Old 10-27-2017, 05:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
Maybe a combination of sticking cable and a unintended foot lift. You only need a half lift to find neutral from first. Also if you were on then off the gas hard that might move the gear lever against your foot as the bike lifts then drops.
Ever since I fixed my water logged forks, I've been getting a bit more aggressive. When I got the 919 a few years back, it handled a bit different, I thought it was me. Ends up the forks were filled with watery mush. I cleaned them out and it's like a different bike.

My prior bike was fully gone thru (CB700S) I canyon carved with it and I was ringing that thing out to her limit. Now I'm pretty much doing the same thing. I'm actually looking at getting the tank side grips because I'm sliding back quite a bit and almost throwing myself off the bike.

I always wondered why the stock seats didn't have the deep seat ridge like my Corbin (700S) did. That Corbin holds you in from the backside.

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post #13 of 34 Old 10-27-2017, 06:00 PM
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I slid around heaps on the stock seat. I was thinking of tank pads. But after I re did the cover I no longer slide forwards or backwards. The new cover has a grip surface where your butt goes and a pronounced ridge at the back. I don't know what is better. Gripping more with your butt or your knees. Probably both.

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post #14 of 34 Old 10-27-2017, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I slid around heaps on the stock seat. I was thinking of tank pads. But after I re did the cover I no longer slide forwards or backwards. The new cover has a grip surface where your butt goes and a pronounced ridge at the back. I don't know what is better. Gripping more with your butt or your knees. Probably both.
One thing that scares me is that when I was 1st on a bike, I held the throttle wrong. The way I was holding it was that the more it pulled me, the more I pulled back on it. It was a friends bike and I was in high school. Pulled a wicked wheelie and nearly lost it. I couldn't reduce the throttle without letting go and that would mean falling off.

It was funny as hell, lesson learned. I like the ridge in the seat, requires no muscle flex.

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post #15 of 34 Old 11-02-2017, 12:02 PM Thread Starter
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Quick update. After a few runs, lubing the clutch cable, and paying attention to where my foot is, it seems my boot was hitting the shifter. I didn't realize just how close it was and I've been a bit more aggressive in my riding.

So it looks like it's all my fault, the good news is that the transmission seems to be fine.

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post #16 of 34 Old 11-02-2017, 12:18 PM
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Should've mentioned this use case earlier, happened to me too with bulky boots.

For example I bought the TCX X-Blend Waterproof Boots because I thought they'd be nice sleek boots, but it turned out not to be the case.
The boots are quite bulky and barely fit between the peg and shifter and any slight movement, especially in the 1st N 2nd gear area I didn't even feel when shifting, purposefully or not

Felt like a total deusche, when reving it out because I accidentally changed from 1st to N without even feeling it because of the boot...
Quote:
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Quick update. After a few runs, lubing the clutch cable, and paying attention to where my foot is, it seems my boot was hitting the shifter. I didn't realize just how close it was and I've been a bit more aggressive in my riding.

So it looks like it's all my fault, the good news is that the transmission seems to be fine.

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post #17 of 34 Old 11-02-2017, 12:21 PM
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Glad to hear your gearbox is OK.
It's been said before and it goes through my head every time I miss a gear. Messed up gear changes on this bike are 90% rider error.
I also sometimes put my bike in gear with bike stand down, kills engine. And I've tried to start my bike with the horn button! Both have happened at the shops, in front of people, a few times. Great.
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post #18 of 34 Old 11-02-2017, 12:42 PM
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I've actually found that when riding the 919 harder in a track environment, the gear box really shines. It's more clunky at lower revs/speeds on the street. But when placed under high load, it is brilliant. Takes almost no effort to change gears.

It just feels the opposite when on the street because you're paying more attention at lower revs/speeds so you are less likely to make a mistake.

One thing I noticed is regardless of the environment and riding demands, be deliberate in all your shift movements and you'll be fine.

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post #19 of 34 Old 11-02-2017, 02:47 PM
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Pvster I agree with everything you said.
Yet I sometimes find a false neutral between 5 and 6. If I make this selection deliberate and below 5000 rpm I never miss. But If I'm going hard and I make the change at above 7000 rpm, sometimes it misses. I just assume It's a sloppy gear change, because I'm doing it all quicker at high revs? I hardly ever change between 5 and 6 now at high revs.

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post #20 of 34 Old 11-02-2017, 04:37 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
Pvster I agree with everything you said.
Yet I sometimes find a false neutral between 5 and 6. If I make this selection deliberate and below 5000 rpm I never miss. But If I'm going hard and I make the change at above 7000 rpm, sometimes it misses. I just assume It's a sloppy gear change, because I'm doing it all quicker at high revs? I hardly ever change between 5 and 6 now at high revs.
I found the false N to be when the cogs don't mesh. I had that problem with another bike and the cogs were worn, the forks were worn.

The suck part is that forks wear over time and you really can't get to them without opening up the case. What I feared was having to open the case on this. I'm glad I don't have to.

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post #21 of 34 Old 11-03-2017, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
I found the false N to be when the cogs don't mesh. I had that problem with another bike and the cogs were worn, the forks were worn.

The suck part is that forks wear over time and you really can't get to them without opening up the case. What I feared was having to open the case on this. I'm glad I don't have to.
I can, and have seen that before also. I do not think it is my case however, as I only have 5k miles on her. I KNOW it was my error between 5th and 6th. Just surprised because compared the CB1000R the 919 transmission feels "blocky"... I will put a pair of rearsets and adjust accordingly and get this girl to smooth out.

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post #22 of 34 Old 11-03-2017, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
Pvster I agree with everything you said.
Yet I sometimes find a false neutral between 5 and 6. If I make this selection deliberate and below 5000 rpm I never miss. But If I'm going hard and I make the change at above 7000 rpm, sometimes it misses. I just assume It's a sloppy gear change, because I'm doing it all quicker at high revs? I hardly ever change between 5 and 6 now at high revs.
Islandboy, do you slightly preload your shifter lever before making the change when going hard in the high revs?
If not, try it and see if that helps.
Keep in mind you'll have to slightly "retime" your foot movement to make sure everything is happening when it should be.

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post #23 of 34 Old 11-03-2017, 11:51 AM
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Yes, it seems the more relaxed one's shifting of a 919 is, results in what appears to be gearbox gremlins.
Meanwhile, harder use of the gearbox and faster shift executions done skillfully nets faultless gear changing.

Also.
Anyone having trouble should always check the linkage to make sure it is properly set up, and not off a spline or two, and/or with the lever arms not parallel.

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post #24 of 34 Old 11-03-2017, 01:01 PM
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I doubt my gearbox is worn either. Low km's, little abuse. I'm sure it's my fault as well.
No I haven't tried to preload the gear lever. I will try. Bit worried though, old dog new tricks and all that. I tried clutchless shifting once. Once. I'll do a little research.

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post #25 of 34 Old 11-05-2017, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
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I doubt my gearbox is worn either. Low km's, little abuse. I'm sure it's my fault as well.
No I haven't tried to preload the gear lever. I will try. Bit worried though, old dog new tricks and all that. I tried clutchless shifting once. Once. I'll do a little research.
919 gearboxes loves preloaded shifters. It also loves clutch less up shifts from 2nd-3rd gear up.

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post #26 of 34 Old 11-05-2017, 11:42 PM
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Fresh oil would make my bike slip out of first into neutral when coasting sometimes. Stops after like 100 miles or so.

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post #27 of 34 Old 11-06-2017, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
I doubt my gearbox is worn either. Low km's, little abuse. I'm sure it's my fault as well.
No I haven't tried to preload the gear lever. I will try. Bit worried though, old dog new tricks and all that. I tried clutchless shifting once. Once. I'll do a little research.
I clutchless upshift every single day... It has its place for sure. I usually shift manually for the first 2 gears and then go clutchless from there- always in the upper half of the rpm range. I only do this when heavy acceleration is in order, freeway on ramp, passing cars, pure hooliganism, or drag strip. Saves clutch ware, can be done one handed, and saves time at the track. Perfectly safe if done correctly.

Tooling around town is manual shifting and low rpm...
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post #28 of 34 Old 11-06-2017, 11:10 AM
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I will be teaching myself how to preload gear lever and shift clutchless. Cheers.

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post #29 of 34 Old 11-06-2017, 03:30 PM
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You can clutch less downshift as well, it just needs a bit of finesse.

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post #30 of 34 Old 11-06-2017, 04:11 PM
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Finesse is something I don't have. What I do have is a 40 something yrs using a clutch habit. That will take some getting used to. I'm shitting my pants just thinking about doing it.

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post #31 of 34 Old 11-06-2017, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
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I will be teaching myself how to preload gear lever and shift clutchless. Cheers.
Suggested is developing the technique by first using the 4,000 - 5,000 rev range and light throttle openings.
Preload the lever to take out whatever "mush" you have in your boot, "slack" in the shift actuator train, to yield a slight net load at the verge of movement of the shifter drum.
A sharp throttle roll off coincident with final movement of your foot, and voila, you will be in the next gear.
As soon as you roll off the gas, snap it back open to where it was, be that partially open or wide open.
Also, proper chain slack helps - by not hindering.
2-3s and higher only by this method.
1-2s should have some clutch, even if just dabbed or fanned.
When I was doing track days, I never got to clutchless, as I was leery of the increased drivetrain shock loading plus the potential to blow a shift.
I ended up leaving the throttle pinned, and fast dabbing the clutch along with preloading the shift lever.
I got faultless shifting, and the tacho would only gain a few hundred revs during the clutch slippage phase.
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post #32 of 34 Old 11-06-2017, 05:52 PM
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It's really not hard at all. I'd say it's easier than shifting with the clutch. And, it's faster. I'd even say it's smoother for more performance oriented scenarios. I only clutch 1-2 when I'm going slow cuz the bike hiccups a bit, but at higher rpms it slips right in. Here's a crappy video

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post #33 of 34 Old 02-18-2018, 10:21 PM
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I must say I've not had a single missed shift, 5th to 6th, since preloading the shifter. I do sometimes feel a double movement like it doesn't quite mesh but holding the pressure on the shift lever it pops in a moment later. But no false neutrals. Thanks fella's.
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post #34 of 34 Old 04-20-2018, 04:51 PM
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Still no missed gear shifts when preloading the shift lever. Several months on. Preloading the shifter has became second nature, I no longer have to think about it. Simply awesome since I was a little worried my gearbox was the problem.
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