919 - weird front end twitchy - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 23 Old 10-02-2012, 01:19 PM Thread Starter
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919 - weird front end twitchy

so, forgive, I am not new to bikes....but new to this 919.

I swapped out the PO's short renthal bars, for some wider pro taper bars. Now, I know some people say they dont like wide bars because of increased steering sensitivity....but this happens even when I let go of the bars.

going down the road, the front end "wanders" if the road surface changes at all. it feels like the bike will "fall" into corners, but almost STEER against you as you lean. Like the front end needs a steering damper on a REALLY tight setting. I literally have around 25 miles on this bike so far, but it didnt do this during my test ride.

steering stem nut tightness? bearing? anything yall can direct me to would be great. I dont think its related, but I can hear some brake pad drag in the front....but cant feel it. hmmm, tweaked fork in the triple maybe?

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post #2 of 23 Old 10-02-2012, 01:45 PM
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brake pads will always drag a little, thats just the nature of the beast.

Best thing you can do is get the front end off the ground and see how smooth the steering is. couple of jack stands under the cross bar at the bottom of the frame by the pegs, and a careful jack placement on the headers to lift the front off the ground should to the trick.

how many miles are on the bike?

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post #3 of 23 Old 10-02-2012, 02:06 PM Thread Starter
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2007, approx 26k miles. PO was a service manager at a local honda dealership


worth trying things like loosening the pinch bolts on the forks or anything like that? maybe check the clickers for a "uniform" setting?

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post #4 of 23 Old 10-02-2012, 02:23 PM
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Could be a worn front tire, mine felt a little like that in the corners before I changed the tires to PR3's.

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post #5 of 23 Old 10-02-2012, 02:25 PM Thread Starter
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tires are fresh enough...i noticed the tire pressure was low, so I filled it up to 36 psi (front) and it didnt help much. is it normal to still be able to "push" in the front tire with your hand at that psi? the tire felt soft still.

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post #6 of 23 Old 10-02-2012, 02:25 PM
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I'd look at tires.Are they cupped real bad on the front ,or even mismatched.

Then Do what nd4spdbh suggested.

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post #7 of 23 Old 10-02-2012, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselndixie View Post
tires are fresh enough...i noticed the tire pressure was low, so I filled it up to 36 psi (front) and it didnt help much. is it normal to still be able to "push" in the front tire with your hand at that psi? the tire felt soft still.
I should have typed just a bit slower...

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post #8 of 23 Old 10-02-2012, 02:47 PM Thread Starter
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I will check the steering stem nut when I get home...something tells me thats it. need to get creative and make that steering nut tool that I found people making from this forum. lifting the bike may be interesting....I have a craftsman bike lift/jack, but I dont trust using the headers

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post #9 of 23 Old 10-02-2012, 03:07 PM
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919s are rock steady by design and in use.
Even with a pointy front sport tire, they should be capable of being a hands off bike at 140 mph, and very resistant to bump induced front end excitation all the time.
They have such gentle forgiving geometry, and Honda wanted it that way for their target audience.

We'll all help get your situation straightened around, you should not be feeling what you are feeling, that is for sure.

So, your tire condition and pressures are OK.
Are both the tires original or exact same size replacements?
If replacements, are they very high performance with less stable carcass shape, as in a more shaped centre section?
Where are the front ride height adjusters set to? As in how many "rings" are showing?
Have the fork tubes been raised in the clamps?
Are the fork springs stock?
What about the rebound adjuster? (gently turn in clockwise until barely bottoming out and count the turns as you go.)
What preload position is the rear shock set to?
Is the spring stock?
What about the rebound adjuster? (gently turn in clockwise until barely bottoming out and count the turns as you go.)
Are the steering head bearings OK? (919 steering head bearings are OK, but loose can be a problem, and ALWAYS be suspicious of anyone's resetting of steering head bearings, most doing them too tight, shops included)
Are the tubes and triples straight?
Are the tubes and triples aligned?

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post #10 of 23 Old 10-02-2012, 03:16 PM Thread Starter
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I will complete this "checklist" when I get home, and report back.

Its just odd, that I dont remember this feeling when I test drive it....but then again...i didnt test drive it very long.

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post #11 of 23 Old 10-02-2012, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselndixie View Post
I will check the steering stem nut when I get home...something tells me thats it. need to get creative and make that steering nut tool that I found people making from this forum. lifting the bike may be interesting....I have a craftsman bike lift/jack, but I dont trust using the headers
DO NOT put the entire weight of the bike on the headers.

My method above gets the ass end about 2 inches in the air, and maybe 50 or so lbs on the front tire due to the very forward location of the jack stands.

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post #12 of 23 Old 10-02-2012, 03:25 PM Thread Starter
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thx for clarifying, but I definitely wouldn't do that.

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post #13 of 23 Old 10-02-2012, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
DO NOT put the entire weight of the bike on the headers.

My method above gets the ass end about 2 inches in the air, and maybe 50 or so lbs on the front tire due to the very forward location of the jack stands.
nd4spdbh is very correct on this point.
I block up the front with axle stands and blocks of wood resting under the front engine tabs.
Your issue will be getting the initial front end lift up.
I use race stand which you likely don't have.
Be careful with your rigging, is all I can say. Others may have some good and proven ideas.
Anyway, IF you decide to check the steering head bearings, the front wheel must be off.
And when setting them up, the fork tubes should be out of the clamps.

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post #14 of 23 Old 10-02-2012, 03:30 PM Thread Starter
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The only race stands I have are for ducatis, so they wont help me much without the special adapters for this bike.

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post #15 of 23 Old 10-02-2012, 03:30 PM
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Is your rear tire properly aligned? I had a front end wobble due to that.

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post #16 of 23 Old 10-02-2012, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselndixie View Post
The only race stands I have are for ducatis, so they wont help me much without the special adapters for this bike.
Pin type front for the Duc ?
If so, I'll bet it is smaller than the 919 24 mm pin so do a front lift with a loose pin.

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post #17 of 23 Old 10-02-2012, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
Pin type front for the Duc ?
If so, I'll bet it is smaller than the 919 24 mm pin so do a front lift with a loose pin.
I've replace my pin before with just a 4" 1/4" socket extension. Worked just fine, just gotta be careful.

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post #18 of 23 Old 10-02-2012, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
919s are rock steady by design and in use.
Even with a pointy front sport tire, they should be capable of being a hands off bike at 140 mph, and very resistant to bump induced front end excitation all the time.
They have such gentle forgiving geometry, and Honda wanted it that way for their target audience.

We'll all help get your situation straightened around, you should not be feeling what you are feeling, that is for sure.

So, your tire condition and pressures are OK.
Are both the tires original or exact same size replacements?
If replacements, are they very high performance with less stable carcass shape, as in a more shaped centre section?
Where are the front ride height adjusters set to? As in how many "rings" are showing?
Have the fork tubes been raised in the clamps?
Are the fork springs stock?
What about the rebound adjuster? (gently turn in clockwise until barely bottoming out and count the turns as you go.)
What preload position is the rear shock set to?
Is the spring stock?
What about the rebound adjuster? (gently turn in clockwise until barely bottoming out and count the turns as you go.)
Are the steering head bearings OK? (919 steering head bearings are OK, but loose can be a problem, and ALWAYS be suspicious of anyone's resetting of steering head bearings, most doing them too tight, shops included)
Are the tubes and triples straight?
Are the tubes and triples aligned?
Assumed is that the frame is straight by not having been seriously binned, AND that swingarm pin, rear axle, and engine mounts and engine bracket mounts are all correctly tight.

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post #19 of 23 Old 10-02-2012, 08:09 PM
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We have a bracket blueprint in the dropbox you can refer to build a stand that you use to lift the bike with a floor jack.

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post #20 of 23 Old 10-02-2012, 08:29 PM Thread Starter
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How do I access this dropbox? i ended up channeling my inner and hung 2 ratchet straps from a tree and raised it just about a .5 inch off the ground. Hey....it worked.

So. Some interesting findings. Nothing was wrong with the front end. nothing loose on the forks. pinch bolts were fine. I even loosened the pinch bolts and let the forks settle. I Measured all the clickers In the front forks and even rear shock. They were all three set to one half turn out from full hard.

BUT!!! I would've never thought to check the engine mount bolts unless the previous poster would have suggested it. I checked all the bolts around the frame and engine mounts and found one of them to be almost hand tight. Once I tightened this bolt up. The problem went away. I would've never dreamed of checking this. Why did this happen. And why and how does it affect steering. I don't quite have a grasp on that

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post #21 of 23 Old 10-02-2012, 08:41 PM
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The engine is a stressed member of the frame. The only actual frame the 919 has is the backbone pretty much. So a loose engine mount bolt would allow the chassis to flex unpredictably.

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post #22 of 23 Old 10-02-2012, 09:39 PM Thread Starter
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Wow. I would have never known to check that. It's amazing how much that effected the handling.

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post #23 of 23 Old 10-03-2012, 12:36 AM
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good outcome, and well found

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