919 turns over but not starting. - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 16 Old 04-08-2020, 08:36 AM Thread Starter
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919 turns over but not starting.

Hi All new to the forum.
Have a 2004 Hornet 919 with 20k on the clock.
Has been sitting under a cover for the winter (Live on the south cost of England). Had a dead battery so I replaced it with a fresh new one but unfortunately, I touched the positive battery terminal against the petrol tank when i was sliding it back into its cover.
Well it got jammed there for about 5 seconds with lots of hissing and smoke before i managed to free it.
The engine turns over ok but will not start.
This is one thing I can say about this bike is that it has always started on the button.
Have I shorted something guys ??
What an idiot thing to have done !!
Thanks for any tips or guidance.

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post #2 of 16 Old 04-08-2020, 08:46 AM
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How do the fuses look?

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post #3 of 16 Old 04-08-2020, 09:27 AM Thread Starter
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Hi Sckill, the fuses look ok.

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post #4 of 16 Old 04-08-2020, 09:33 AM
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You need to get a test light or a multi-meter and start checking things. You can pull out every fuse, one by one and check it, you can also just buy a set of fuses, they are handy to keep on the bike.

You can also use a timing light to test if you're getting spark or you can hold the plug wire with a screwdriver next to a ground using rubber gloves and see if you're getting spark. You can also listen for the fuel pump.

Start with the fuses.
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post #5 of 16 Old 04-08-2020, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloinoz View Post
Hi All new to the forum.
Have a 2004 Hornet 919 with 20k on the clock.
Has been sitting under a cover for the winter (Live on the south cost of England). Had a dead battery so I replaced it with a fresh new one but unfortunately, I touched the positive battery terminal against the petrol tank when i was sliding it back into its cover.
Well it got jammed there for about 5 seconds with lots of hissing and smoke before i managed to free it.
The engine turns over ok but will not start.
This is one thing I can say about this bike is that it has always started on the button.
Have I shorted something guys ??
What an idiot thing to have done !!
Thanks for any tips or guidance.
1
How does the rest of the electrical system behave now?
In particular, all of the lighting.
I mean the instrument needle sweeping and lights, head lamp, tail lamp and signals.

2
How do the safety switches behave?
As in the kill switch, lean stand switch, and clutch switch.

3
How does the ignition behave?
Got a spare plug? be it #1 or 4, pull the cap, use the spare plug as grounded to something that can be reached, and see if you have spark.

4
How does the fuel pump behave?
Can you hear it go on when you turn the key?


Do all that, then go from there.
(Assumed it that all of the fuses really are OK.)
IF still stumped, the very best resource we have is robtharlson, who is in an electrical league of his own.

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post #6 of 16 Old 04-09-2020, 09:28 AM
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Welcome!
As it happens there is a thread on this subject: https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums...ml#post1115106
Sound familiar?
Quote:
I touched the positive battery terminal against the petrol tank when i was sliding it back into its cover. Well it got jammed there for about 5 seconds with lots of hissing and smoke before i managed to free it.
When the positive post of the battery contacted the fuel tank it overloaded the ground wire for the fuel pump and low fuel sensor, burning it out. If the break in the ground wire is between the fuel pump mount and the three pin block connector on the main harness it is possible to effect repair by replacing the mount which unfortunately includes the fuel pump. At $325 USD, it is a pricey option. A considerably less expensive option is to make a heavier gauge wire with the necessary terminals on each end to connect to the tank and the frame ground point on the right side of the backbone above the airbox, bypassing the failed ground wire.

The fix is pretty simple, and if you aren't sure of your skills in this area any stereo shop or auto electrical / repair shop could knock it out in five minutes, and if you ask they may let you watch, usually with a running commentary. If, however, you want to do it yourself I can write up the procedure.

Rob
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If it has already been done, it is safe to assume it is possible to do it.
On the other hand, if it has not been done never assume it is impossible to do it.
------- Rob --------
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post #7 of 16 Old 04-18-2020, 03:40 AM Thread Starter
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Hi All, thank you all so much for your helpful advice.

I have only managed to get back on to this site today. Been recovering from covid virus. I'm front line staff in the NHS and came down with the virus a few weeks ago and have not felt like doing much apart from recovering.

All lights and switches working and all fuses that i found are ok.

Looks like It may well be what Rob is saying about burning out the ground wire for the fuel pump, I will check this out later today and will let you know.
Also Rob, thanks for the link.

Thanks again guys.

Please keep safe and stay well.

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post #8 of 16 Old 04-18-2020, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloinoz View Post
Hi All, thank you all so much for your helpful advice.

I have only managed to get back on to this site today. Been recovering from covid virus. I'm front line staff in the NHS and came down with the virus a few weeks ago and have not felt like doing much apart from recovering.

All lights and switches working and all fuses that i found are ok.

Looks like It may well be what Rob is saying about burning out the ground wire for the fuel pump, I will check this out later today and will let you know.
Also Rob, thanks for the link.

Thanks again guys.

Please keep safe and stay well.
Sir, I think adding the word "staff" after "Front Line" rather diminishes the role you are playing.

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post #9 of 16 Old 04-19-2020, 03:58 AM Thread Starter
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Hi all,

Had a look at the wires under the tank and yep the earth has melted from the fuel pump at the end where the terminal block is.. Plus the black earth from the frame to the front underside of the tank.

Good call Rob. I would like to take you up on the offer of re attaching new cable please Rob. Really just want to ride now, you know how it is.

Trying to upload a couple of pics that may be helpful to other people but not having much success.

Thanks for your help

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post #10 of 16 Old 04-19-2020, 07:45 AM Thread Starter
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Ok so I made a new ground wire to replace the one which attaches to the frame and the underside of the tank and the fuel pump primed and started on the button.
Just idling high at 2.5.

Now for a clean up and back to work tomorrow after 4 weeks off.

Thank you for you suggestions and help guys.

Keep safe.

BTW, I used an old ground wire from XT500 which I had restored, it was the 1st bike I owned back in 1980
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post #11 of 16 Old 04-19-2020, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloinoz View Post
Ok so I made a new ground wire to replace the one which attaches to the frame and the underside of the tank and the fuel pump primed and started on the button.
Just idling high at 2.5.

Now for a clean up and back to work tomorrow after 4 weeks off.

Thank you for you suggestions and help guys.

Keep safe.

BTW, I used an old ground wire from XT500 which I had restored, it was the 1st bike I owned back in 1980
To be true to form, you should refer to it as the factory manual does.
It's called a "maintenance wire".
LoLs, I guess they meant "a wire that maintains grounding of the tank to the frame".
Bizarre, eh?

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post #12 of 16 Old 04-19-2020, 05:09 PM
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So this maintenance wire. When I first got my bike and lifted the tank I found this wire not attached to the tank. Someone had not bolted it back onto tank. I sorted that out.
The pump ran fine.
I'm just assuming that the tank was still grounded where it bolts and pivots on the frame.
What is the full purpose of that maintenance wire?

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post #13 of 16 Old 04-19-2020, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
So this maintenance wire. When I first got my bike and lifted the tank I found this wire not attached to the tank. Someone had not bolted it back onto tank. I sorted that out.
The pump ran fine.
I'm just assuming that the tank was still grounded where it bolts and pivots on the frame.
What is the full purpose of that maintenance wire?
I'm not certain, but it seemed to me whenever I wanted to use a handy block of wood to elevate the tank where I wanted it to get to, the wire prevented it so off it came every such time.
It's been so long I can't remember if the wire is braided type or electrical wire in green insulation.
Anyway, I think someone at Mr. Honda wanted to prevent movement beyond a certain range, for some reason.
Once I drag the bike out from under the car in a few weeks, I'll have a look.

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post #14 of 16 Old 04-19-2020, 07:22 PM
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It's a braided type.

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post #15 of 16 Old 04-19-2020, 07:26 PM
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Partzilla have that cable listed as a fuel tank stopper.

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post #16 of 16 Old 04-20-2020, 02:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
I think someone at Mr. Honda wanted to prevent movement beyond a certain range, for some reason.
Yes, this was my assumption too - mine was unbolted at one end, and I never changed it, as it lets me get the front of the tank up and out of the way when I need to.

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