919 Clutch Slipping - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 45 Old 08-21-2014, 09:07 PM Thread Starter
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919 Clutch Slipping

Hello, I have a 02 Honda 919 with around 30k miles on it. Im not very mechanically inclined, but I still chose to do an oil change on my bike. Everything went well and iv been riding her around for a good 600 miles but I smelt burning at high RPM's. So, i put more oil in because I thought that's what might have been burning. But ever since the oil change, in all gears, my clutch is slipping, mostly in 1st and 2nd gears. Did my recent oil change have anything to do with the guest appearance of this clutch slipping? Thanks - Vince

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post #2 of 45 Old 08-21-2014, 09:50 PM
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Too much oil in the crank case. Drain your oil and start over again. Use the sight glass to gauge your oil level with the bike upright (not on the kick stand!) and on level ground.

Also, be sure to check your slack in the clutch cable.

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post #3 of 45 Old 08-21-2014, 09:59 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
Too much oil in the crank case. Drain your oil and start over again. Use the sight glass to gauge your oil level with the bike upright (not on the kick stand!) and on level ground.

Also, be sure to check your slack in the clutch cable.
I tried to look through the inspection hole, but there was too much grime to clearly see through it. Is it possible to clean that small window?

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post #4 of 45 Old 08-22-2014, 12:50 AM
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It could be the oil - your engine is a wet clutch design, and not all modern oils are suitable for it.

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post #5 of 45 Old 08-22-2014, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by onevince View Post
I tried to look through the inspection hole, but there was too much grime to clearly see through it. Is it possible to clean that small window?
No, but you are probably looking into a sight glass full of oil, as opposed to one that shows oil half-way up. The difference is readily apparent, once you see it.

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post #6 of 45 Old 08-22-2014, 02:07 AM
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What oil did you use?

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post #7 of 45 Old 08-22-2014, 05:04 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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What oil did you use?
I used fully synthetic Mobile 1, for 4 cylinder motorcycles. I put in 3.7 quarts of that in.

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No, but you are probably looking into a sight glass full of oil, as opposed to one that shows oil half-way up. The difference is readily apparent, once you see it.
There was that grime I am talking about even when all of the oil was drained :/

Also, what is everyone's opinion on "Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer" I was talking to a few mechanics, and for car oil changes, a lot of them swear by it. On the bottle it also mentions motorcycles, with wet clutches

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post #8 of 45 Old 08-22-2014, 08:25 AM
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You shouldn't need any oil stabilizers with the 919. Just plain old non-soap added oils (non-energy conserving).

I would try draining and re-filling your oil, only fill it so the sight glass is half full.

You are looking at the glass while it is standing straight up and down, not on a race stand or kickstand, right?

Last thing - check your clutch cable, make sure it's not too tight and slightly dis-engaging the clutch when the lever is fully out. That can also cause your clutch to drag and overheat.

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post #9 of 45 Old 08-22-2014, 08:59 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
You shouldn't need any oil stabilizers with the 919. Just plain old non-soap added oils (non-energy conserving).

I would try draining and re-filling your oil, only fill it so the sight glass is half full.

You are looking at the glass while it is standing straight up and down, not on a race stand or kickstand, right?

Last thing - check your clutch cable, make sure it's not too tight and slightly dis-engaging the clutch when the lever is fully out. That can also cause your clutch to drag and overheat.
Correct, I am looking at the glass when my friend is on the bike standing straight up. But again, the glass has grime, I can't see any levels at any time when I look through that glass. Do you have any suggestions to clean that glass?
As for the oil stabilizer, I was just curious along the lines of preformance and life length, not only if it is needed or not. Thanks -vince

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post #10 of 45 Old 08-22-2014, 09:12 AM
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Can't say I've ever seen the glass on the 919 so dirty that you can't see the oil. You could take that cover off and clean it (after draining the oil, of course), but you might need to replace any gaskets that might be present.

Usually, if you can't see any change, then you've overfilled it. But if you don't see any change even after draining the oil, then it must be pretty dirty.

If your oil is getting really dirty, how's your air filter?

And I only mentioned that you don't need any oil additives because the 919 engine is bulletproof. It's like bringing your own chlorine to a swimming pool, it's just not needed.

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post #11 of 45 Old 08-22-2014, 10:10 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
Can't say I've ever seen the glass on the 919 so dirty that you can't see the oil. You could take that cover off and clean it (after draining the oil, of course), but you might need to replace any gaskets that might be present.

Usually, if you can't see any change, then you've overfilled it. But if you don't see any change even after draining the oil, then it must be pretty dirty.

If your oil is getting really dirty, how's your air filter?

And I only mentioned that you don't need any oil additives because the 919 engine is bulletproof. It's like bringing your own chlorine to a swimming pool, it's just not needed.
I think all that grime is because before this oil change just recently, I was having some financial troubles and had been riding on the same oil for a little over 6k miles on the same oil :/ but all is good now.

As for the air filter, haven't checked yet. But I will do in a little, any suggestions on a brand?

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post #12 of 45 Old 08-22-2014, 12:06 PM
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OEM on the air filter.

And the Owner's manual states 8k miles between oil changes, so you were still well within spec. I did it once every year (Spring) no matter the mileage.

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post #13 of 45 Old 08-22-2014, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onevince View Post
I used fully synthetic Mobile 1, for 4 cylinder motorcycles. I put in 3.7 quarts of that in.



There was that grime I am talking about even when all of the oil was drained :/

Also, what is everyone's opinion on "Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer" I was talking to a few mechanics, and for car oil changes, a lot of them swear by it. On the bottle it also mentions motorcycles, with wet clutches
I thought synthetic was a no no on motorcycles. I don't know if the 919 is different, but I though the synthetic oils had additives that were too slick for the clutch.

Maybe things have changed.

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post #14 of 45 Old 08-22-2014, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post

I thought synthetic was a no no on motorcycles. I don't know if the 919 is different, but I though the synthetic oils had additives that were too slick for the clutch.

Maybe things have changed.
It's not the synthetic themselves, it's the additives that are added, depending on brand and type.

I use Rotella T6 full synthetic with zero issues. Others have used different brands of synthetic oil with no issues. Just be sure to avoid anything with "energy-efficient/conserving" like what was mentioned above.

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post #15 of 45 Old 08-22-2014, 03:24 PM
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hijack:

PV how's your shifting? i'm using the regular rotella and it seems like on hotter days it knocks into gear a bit more than i like. I think the synthetic is a lower weight, so thinking about going to that

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post #16 of 45 Old 08-22-2014, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onevince View Post
I think all that grime is because before this oil change just recently, I was having some financial troubles and had been riding on the same oil for a little over 6k miles on the same oil :/ but all is good now. As for the air filter, haven't checked yet. But I will do in a little, any suggestions on a brand?
I routinely ride 5- 6,000 miles between oil changes and my sight glass is clean as a whistle... I don't think that's your problem... What oil are you using?

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post #17 of 45 Old 08-22-2014, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by CKutz_GO View Post
hijack: PV how's your shifting? i'm using the regular rotella and it seems like on hotter days it knocks into gear a bit more than i like. I think the synthetic is a lower weight, so thinking about going to that
Double post

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post #18 of 45 Old 08-22-2014, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CKutz_GO View Post
hijack: PV how's your shifting? i'm using the regular rotella and it seems like on hotter days it knocks into gear a bit more than i like. I think the synthetic is a lower weight, so thinking about going to that
I could be wrong, but the way I understand it is that if your problem is at higher temps then your oil is thinning too much and you should go with a higher weight oil.

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post #19 of 45 Old 08-22-2014, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CKutz_GO View Post
hijack:

PV how's your shifting? i'm using the regular rotella and it seems like on hotter days it knocks into gear a bit more than i like. I think the synthetic is a lower weight, so thinking about going to that
If you are going fast enough to shift into second gear, knock that shit off and take it to the track, you're gonna get hurt or worse.

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post #20 of 45 Old 08-22-2014, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CKutz_GO View Post
hijack:

PV how's your shifting? i'm using the regular rotella and it seems like on hotter days it knocks into gear a bit more than i like. I think the synthetic is a lower weight, so thinking about going to that
Being in the hot weather, I don't think the 919 is liking the lower weight too much.

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I could be wrong, but the way I understand it is that if your problem is at higher temps then your oil is thinning too much and you should go with a higher weight oil.
This. I think I'm going to try something different. Not sure what though. Or maybe I'll just stick with the T6.

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If you are going fast enough to shift into second gear, knock that shit off and take it to the track, you're gonna get hurt or worse.
Stuff it Mike

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post #21 of 45 Old 08-22-2014, 06:55 PM
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Being in the hot weather, I don't think the 919 is liking the lower weight too much.



This. I think I'm going to try something different. Not sure what though. Or maybe I'll just stick with the T6.
yea i'm not sure whether to attribute it to the heat, oil breakdown (around 5k miles on it now), or weight, might also just go with the same for bit. It'd be nice to know what other options there are that are cheap like rotella but maybe different weights.

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onevince:
when you say grime, it's not like a white cloudy goo is it? or maybe cloudy yellow?
If so this is moisture that has collected and mixed with the oil. it will burn off eventually. sounds like you've done enough riding that it should have burned off by now though... if it is white goo just ride it for awhile. you should be able to see in there eventually. if it's definitely dark gunk.. i'd consider taking the glass off and cleaning it.. maybe take it to shop to have them to do it so you aren't stuck with figuring out the mess and can get back to riding.. worry about wrenching in time.

also my clutch slipped when my clutch cable wasn't adjusted correctly.. it was also gaining slack because of crappy aftermarket levers cutting through the cable and giving it more slack.
If you're able to disengage (go to neutral for a shift) the clutch by barely squeezing the lever it's possible your cable is preventing the clutch from fully engaging and once there is enough power it slips.

can you post a pic of the sight glass for us?

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post #22 of 45 Old 08-24-2014, 10:38 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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If so this is moisture that has collected and mixed with the oil. it will burn off eventually. sounds like you've done enough riding that it should have burned off by now though... if it is white goo just ride it for awhile. you should be able to see in there eventually. if it's definitely dark gunk.. i'd consider taking the glass off and cleaning it.. maybe take it to shop to have them to do it so you aren't stuck with figuring out the mess and can get back to riding.. worry about wrenching in time.

also my clutch slipped when my clutch cable wasn't adjusted correctly.. it was also gaining slack because of crappy aftermarket levers cutting through the cable and giving it more slack.
If you're able to disengage (go to neutral for a shift) the clutch by barely squeezing the lever it's possible your cable is preventing the clutch from fully engaging and once there is enough power it slips.

can you post a pic of the sight glass for us?
I took off the crank case cover and cleaned the glass. I ended up having to change the gasket like g00gl3it said I would haha. But I put the crank case back on and re filled the oil back to perfect level. Then, I adjusted the clutch cable after doing some research. But still! After all of that, still slipping. So I called the last guy who was the original owner of the bike and said that after the 20k miles he put on the bike, he hadn't ever changed the clutch. So I think I might just be a bad clutch. Im going to change it, any suggestions on a brand please?

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post #23 of 45 Old 08-24-2014, 10:44 AM
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I think it's recommended that you're better off not changing the clutch and pit the money towards an Ohlins. It'll handle much better.

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post #24 of 45 Old 08-24-2014, 10:55 AM
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I haven't had to do my clutch, so no input on brand. You might look at this thread, though.

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post #25 of 45 Old 08-24-2014, 06:19 PM
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My main point of linking that thread is that, if you have the tools and the means, it might be worthwhile to pull it apart and see what kind of shape the clutch plates are in. Prior to that, though, make sure your cable isn't binding and possibly not letting it fully engage.

20k seems way too soon for needing a new clutch, unless the PO messed it up.

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post #26 of 45 Old 08-24-2014, 06:24 PM Thread Starter
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My main point of linking that thread is that, if you have the tools and the means, it might be worthwhile to pull it apart and see what kind of shape the clutch plates are in. Prior to that, though, make sure your cable isn't binding and possibly not letting it fully engage.

20k seems way too soon for needing a new clutch, unless the PO messed it up.
I just did an inspection on my clutch cable, and realized that there was a gash in the cable housing, leaving the cable exposed and kinda rusty, so I ordered a new cable off of ebay and it's supposed to be here by the 2nd.
Hopefully, that is the problem! Thanks! Will riding the bike with some slippage hurt the motorcycle in any way? While I wait for the clutch to come, iv got a truck, but the commute to work would be wayyy less expensive with my 919?

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post #27 of 45 Old 08-25-2014, 01:58 PM
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More than likely, that is the problem. I think we can count on one hand how many folks on here have actually burned up a 919 clutch.

Even if it does slip a tiny bit - take the steel plates out and rough them up a bit with some sandpaper, and pop them back in. That is if the other plates don't looked burned.

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post #28 of 45 Old 08-25-2014, 03:12 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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More than likely, that is the problem. I think we can count on one hand how many folks on here have actually burned up a 919 clutch.

Even if it does slip a tiny bit - take the steel plates out and rough them up a bit with some sandpaper, and pop them back in. That is if the other plates don't looked burned.
With wet/dry sandpaper? What grit?

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post #29 of 45 Old 08-25-2014, 04:14 PM
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I don't have any sandpaper, will a brick work? :P

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post #30 of 45 Old 08-25-2014, 04:39 PM
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I don't have any sandpaper, will a brick work? :P
Yep, in a pinch....

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post #31 of 45 Old 08-25-2014, 07:09 PM
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I'm actually not sure what grit, but I would use 1000 grit or finer. And of course wash the plates real good before putting them back in the bike. You are just wanting to rough up the surface to give the other plates some frictional area.

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post #32 of 45 Old 08-25-2014, 07:36 PM
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I don't have any sandpaper, will a brick work? :P
Just spray the plates with Plastidip and throw some sand on it before it dries. Oh and make a YouTube.

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post #33 of 45 Old 08-25-2014, 07:41 PM
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Just spray the plates with Plastidip and throw some sand on it before it dries. Oh and make a YouTube.
I'll try that. After I use the sand to scrub in my new tire. What color plasti-dip is best? Ohlins yellow?

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post #34 of 45 Old 08-25-2014, 07:49 PM
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Ohlins yellow?
That will transform the clutch, but use too much and you will get clutch squat which will really throw off your transmission geometry. Just check the drop box there are volumes of information there.

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post #35 of 45 Old 08-26-2014, 12:01 AM
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I suppose you guys would recommend fitting a narrow power band too, while you are in there around the clutch basket?

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post #36 of 45 Old 08-26-2014, 06:11 AM
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I suppose you guys would recommend fitting a narrow power band too, while you are in there around the clutch basket?
Narrow power band? That's what the Buell comes with, isn't it?

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post #37 of 45 Old 08-31-2014, 01:00 PM Thread Starter
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Sooooo, I got my cable and installed it. Much cleaner shifting iv noticed, but.... Still slipping! So I took out my spark plugs because my first oil change I did in the bike, I put too much oil in (but I did change a second time, and made sure the proper amount of oil was in it this time) and when I checked my spark plugs, there was oil on all four of the plugs to the 2-4th row of treads up the plug. Would this have any effect on my clutch slipping? Is there any proper way to clean the area where the spark plugs go in? and should I replace the plugs again? Sorry for the loads of questions, just trying to not have to open up my clutch case again. I haven't tried the sanding the plates yet, i'm saving it as a last resort :P
Thanks all -Vince

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post #38 of 45 Old 08-31-2014, 03:00 PM
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Oil on plug threads and slipping clutch ABSOLUTELY AND COMPLETELY not related.

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post #39 of 45 Old 09-01-2014, 08:19 PM
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Are you sure it was oil on the threads and not just grease, grime, or previous cleaner from cleaning the bike?

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post #40 of 45 Old 09-01-2014, 09:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
Are you sure it was oil on the threads and not just grease, grime, or previous cleaner from cleaning the bike?
100% I'm going to get a new clutch kit, and sand down the metal plates that you were talking about. Before I do that, could slipping be caused by the pressure coil springs that hold it together? Like maybe they have worn out?

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