8900e Penske shock from Traxxion Dynamics and Coolant reservoir - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 33 Old 08-02-2012, 07:02 PM Thread Starter
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8900e Penske shock from Traxxion Dynamics and Coolant reservoir

I just received my 8900e from Traxxion Dynamics, and the shop called me today and told me they need to find a different coolant reservoir for my 919 to replace the stock one, because the reservoir gets in the way of the shock.

Is this to be expected? In my reading up on the 8900e on this forum, I did not notice anything about this. Is this BS? Did they give me the wrong shock?

If anyone who has the 8900e could chime in and let me know, I would appreciate it.

Thanks

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post #2 of 33 Old 08-02-2012, 09:54 PM
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I think someone took a heat gun and used it to soften the reservoir enough to curve it in far enough to clear the shock but if I recall that was on a vfr swingarm conversion. I'm not sure why they really would need one on an 8900e though. Last I checked they didn't even have a remote reservoir? I'd be inclined to think it would bolt up fine but I guess the shop has to know what they are doing on some level.... Funny thing though is I can take the fox twin clicker off my project hawk and if I had the side collars to keep it centered it would bolt right up on the 919. I'd ask them to show it to you if at all possible...

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post #3 of 33 Old 08-02-2012, 10:36 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpcraft View Post
I think someone took a heat gun and used it to soften the reservoir enough to curve it in far enough to clear the shock but if I recall that was on a vfr swingarm conversion. I'm not sure why they really would need one on an 8900e though. Last I checked they didn't even have a remote reservoir? I'd be inclined to think it would bolt up fine but I guess the shop has to know what they are doing on some level.... Funny thing though is I can take the fox twin clicker off my project hawk and if I had the side collars to keep it centered it would bolt right up on the 919. I'd ask them to show it to you if at all possible...
The way they explained it to me, they were talking about my "overflow" coolant reservoir, as in, the one that stores that extra bit of fluid that runs through engine.

I am still not entirely knowledgeable when it comes to my bike, so I wasnt sure what he was talking about. It is fairly new to me in its ownership. I will mention this to my shop and have them explain it a little better to me. Thanks again.

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post #4 of 33 Old 08-02-2012, 10:44 PM
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Right, I understood that bit about your coolant reservoir. What I meant though was that I am not aware of any reason that the 8900e should have anything that would interfere because it does not have a remote reservoir or anything like the stock shock, therefore I'm uncertain what, from the shock, is interfering with your coolant reservoir. Give me a bit and I will try to find the link where the guy reshaped his coolant res.

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post #5 of 33 Old 08-02-2012, 10:57 PM
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Ok, I found the link. About 1/3 of the way down on the first page you can see where he is talking about using the heat gun to relief the coolant reservoir some due to shock interference. Maybe you can just print off the section and then print off the picture in order to give them some type of reference. It's really not that hard to fix. It's just sometimes it takes someone to either remember the mod or someone that really knows how to solve problems that come up when you start looking at doing custom mods.

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https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...per-23515.html

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post #6 of 33 Old 08-02-2012, 11:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpcraft View Post
Ok, I found the link. About 1/3 of the way down on the first page you can see where he is talking about using the heat gun to relief the coolant reservoir some due to shock interference. Maybe you can just print off the section and then print off the picture in order to give them some type of reference. It's really not that hard to fix. It's just sometimes it takes someone to either remember the mod or someone that really knows how to solve problems that come up when you start looking at doing custom mods.

ImageBam

https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...per-23515.html
He made is sound like it was getting in the way a lot. This seems like an easy adaptation.

Thanks a million

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post #7 of 33 Old 08-02-2012, 11:10 PM
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Sometimes it just takes looking at things from a different perspective. Also, I doubt you would ever find a simpler solution, lol.

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post #8 of 33 Old 08-02-2012, 11:17 PM
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Honestly, I'm really skeptical about the whole situation to begin with. I haven't found any threads regarding the penske causing clearance issues for the coolant res, so I call total B.S. I did see one early thread that stated part of the frame had to be cut, but that was it. Seeing the pictures show the shock to be similar to the Ohlins and I (along with many others) haven't had any issues mounting the shock.

Search for yourself and you'll see what I mean.

https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...archid=1069877

https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...all-25427.html

Lastly, why are you not installing the shock yourself??? I would suggest you put the shop on hold, call Penske and ask them if it requires any modding to the coolant res and go by their answer. Would be a good time to look at the part #'s and compare them to ensure you got the right one.

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post #9 of 33 Old 08-02-2012, 11:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
Honestly, I'm really skeptical about the whole situation to begin with. I haven't found any threads regarding the penske causing clearance issues for the coolant res, so I call total B.S. I did see one early thread that stated part of the frame had to be cut, but that was it. Seeing the pictures show the shock to be similar to the Ohlins and I (along with many others) haven't had any issues mounting the shock.

Search for yourself and you'll see what I mean.

https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...archid=1069877

https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...all-25427.html

Lastly, why are you not installing the shock yourself??? I would suggest you put the shop on hold, call Penske and ask them if it requires any modding to the coolant res and go by their answer. Would be a good time to look at the part #'s and compare them to ensure you got the right one.
Sound advice all around, but im in a situation. All i have is my bike. I am borrowing a car at the moment from family, but donīt like to do it. Third, i have nowhere to work on the bike, except the street, not even my own parking spot, and honestly my experience with working on bikes, especially this one which is new to me, is almost nil.

plus i sold most of my tools when i crashed the car in this pic way back...

i will call penske tommorow, and i have already forwarded the heat gun solution to shop, will call and tell them to hold till i have verified that i have the right item.



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post #10 of 33 Old 08-03-2012, 05:49 AM
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I'm going to agree with PV here and say something doesn't add up. I'm guessing either the shop is confused, or they are not telling the whole story... You are not the first to put the Penske on.

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post #11 of 33 Old 08-03-2012, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bocomomark
I'm going to agree with PV here and say something doesn't add up. I'm guessing either the shop is confused, or they are not telling the whole story... You are not the first to put the Penske on.
+1!

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post #12 of 33 Old 08-03-2012, 11:20 AM
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Yeah see I was wondering how an 8900e wouldn't just be a bolt on. I had to take a couple trips out in the garage and stare at my hawk and my hornet and I was just scratching my head trying to figure out what the problem could be. I can't see anything that would interfere on my Fox twin clicker and its basically a duplicate of the 8983 (with the remote reservoir). The only thing I can think of is maybe they may have mistakenly sent him the wrong shock (like for an older 80's cb900) and it has a piggy back reservoir located at the top of the shock. If you have some issues I have the number of a guy who I can call to get some clarification on what part #'s can go on a Hornet.

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post #13 of 33 Old 08-03-2012, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpcraft
Yeah see I was wondering how an 8900e wouldn't just be a bolt on. I had to take a couple trips out in the garage and stare at my hawk and my hornet and I was just scratching my head trying to figure out what the problem could be. I can't see anything that would interfere on my Fox twin clicker and its basically a duplicate of the 8983 (with the remote reservoir). The only thing I can think of is maybe they may have mistakenly sent him the wrong shock (like for an older 80's cb900) and it has a piggy back reservoir located at the top of the shock. If you have some issues I have the number of a guy who I can call to get some clarification on what part #'s can go on a Hornet.
The mechanic says it absolutely is in the way of the shock(also suggests that hrs taken to mold the resoivoir might be more costly than finding one that works/fits)...could be lots of reasons for the blockage. Easiest way someone could help is to provide me with whatever identifying info is on their "for sure" 8900e, and then i can check mine. When i ordered the thing, penske took 5 1/2 weeks to get the shock to traxxion. Traxxion said that penske did not have some of the requesite parts to build the shock, so they had to aquire them, accounting for extra wait...perhaps they seriously cut corners and maybe or they havent built one in a whilr and goofed, or maybe the parts on my bike are not all stock. I am going to stop by shop after work and snap photo of shock, for visual comparison to owners of this shock. Thanks for replies!

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post #14 of 33 Old 08-03-2012, 12:29 PM
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Hours? It should take about 15 minutes and that's probably giving the mechanic about 10 minutes to pull his head out of his ass and get the job done. I fucking hate motorcycle shops. Sorry but I degress..... Yes, at this point tell the mechanic to wait and show you what is interfering, then take some pictures of the shock, and what is supposedly interfering, then I would go back to Traxxion and give them the business and ask them if there is not some error in either the installation process or perhaps even the shock they sent you. Also, please post up a Pic or two of the shock because I can identify it very quickly.

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post #15 of 33 Old 08-03-2012, 03:40 PM
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Also post up some pictures of the shock itself. What I'm confused about is why the penske had to be sent to Traxxion in the first place? What exactly did Traxxion have to add to the penske that penske couldn't add themselves? This whole thing makes a confusing picture.

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post #16 of 33 Old 08-03-2012, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
Also post up some pictures of the shock itself. What I'm confused about is why the penske had to be sent to Traxxion in the first place? What exactly did Traxxion have to add to the penske that penske couldn't add themselves? This whole thing makes a confusing picture.
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post #17 of 33 Old 08-03-2012, 07:27 PM
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I could be wrong but I'm thinking he ordered it from Traxxion. I checked their site and apparently they have it advertised and are a dealer.

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post #18 of 33 Old 08-03-2012, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpcraft View Post
I could be wrong but I'm thinking he ordered it from Traxxion. I checked their site and apparently they have it advertised and are a dealer.
Ah ok that makes more sense. Anyhow...

PAGING MCROMO!!!! He's the forum expert on the penske and can give you the rundown on everything!

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post #19 of 33 Old 08-03-2012, 10:06 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rpcraft View Post
I could be wrong but I'm thinking he ordered it from Traxxion. I checked their site and apparently they have it advertised and are a dealer.
Yes he is correct, I ordered the penske shock from traxxion dynamics. I specifically found and ordered the 8900e without the extra canister. I had to work a double today, so I am going to try to get to the shop to snap some photos.

thanks.

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post #20 of 33 Old 08-04-2012, 12:16 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpcraft View Post
Yeah see I was wondering how an 8900e wouldn't just be a bolt on. I had to take a couple trips out in the garage and stare at my hawk and my hornet and I was just scratching my head trying to figure out what the problem could be. I can't see anything that would interfere on my Fox twin clicker and its basically a duplicate of the 8983 (with the remote reservoir). The only thing I can think of is maybe they may have mistakenly sent him the wrong shock (like for an older 80's cb900) and it has a piggy back reservoir located at the top of the shock. If you have some issues I have the number of a guy who I can call to get some clarification on what part #'s can go on a Hornet.
I think I have figured out what happened. I believe that either Penske, and/or Traxxion Dynamics seriously goofed, and sent me the wrong shock.

I think...that what they sent me is the 8900, and NOT the 8900e.

I decided to purchase the 8900e based on what I read from other members on this forum, basically for the fact that the 8900e is a shock specifically designed for the Honda 919. How is it this happened???

Now, I will wait on others to corroborate my initial deduction, but what I am wondering is, what is the difference between the 8900, and the 8900e?

What I assume to be the key difference (and I am seriously hoping that it is IN FACT the only difference,) is that the 8900 has the nipple for the canister reservoir on the left, as opposed to right in the middle, where the nipple is on the one they sent me.

I note that on the stock rear shock, the location is on the left(or right, whatever) the side.

Pics for reference.












Prolly didn't need to post so many pics, but I figured I might as well.

So....what shock do you think they sent me? I looked at the shock that apprears in the penske install that rpcraft referenced in this thread

https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...all-25427.html

And that is the difference that I note (aside from the extra canister obviously.)

The shop had already proceeded in putting the shock on the bike, and were proceeding with locating another reservoir to fit. I came in this morning and gave them the skinny. I also asked them to attempt the heat gun method, and they eventually relented(they said the owner gave the thumbs down at first,) after conversation with the mechanic who is working on the bike (i also do not like mechanic shops, but I feel that the bad experiences are foisted on us not by the wrench turners, but the guys who give said turners their orders.)

If the only difference is the nipple location, and by causality the only mod needing to be done to finish this mini-pesadilla being the reshaping of the coolant reservoir, then I am inclined to continue. If there are other performance differences inherit to the shocks, I am faced with perhaps having to have the shop remove the shock(which the guy at the shop was hinting to me that it will represent more $$$-time from me,) and then a potentially bigger nightmare in getting a new one.

Regardless of all of that, I will be getting on the phone next business week to complain to Traxxion and/or Penske about the whole situation.

If anyone can chime in with useful info on what to do about the situation, please do.

Thanks in advance, and so far ya'll have been really fcuking cool.

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post #21 of 33 Old 08-04-2012, 04:31 PM
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Yup, you got the wrong shock. I'd have traxxion and/or penske ship you a 919 specific one AND cover the cost of install/removal.

and FYI, removing the rear shock is VERY easy, which means it should be very cheap to do for the shop. So don't let them bully you. At this point, I wouldn't mess with the coolant res. and get the proper shock shipped to you.

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post #22 of 33 Old 08-04-2012, 11:13 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
Yup, you got the wrong shock. I'd have traxxion and/or penske ship you a 919 specific one AND cover the cost of install/removal.

and FYI, removing the rear shock is VERY easy, which means it should be very cheap to do for the shop. So don't let them bully you. At this point, I wouldn't mess with the coolant res. and get the proper shock shipped to you.
Sigh....

That's what I plan on doing. I will write them a detailed letter first, outlining my complaint, and then give them a day or so to see if they will accede, which they should and more.

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post #23 of 33 Old 08-06-2012, 04:42 PM
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Yeah, I'd pick up the phone personally. If no-one on here has a number and it isn't on their website PM me and I will most likely get a specific person for you. Knowing Traxxion they may make it up to you with an upgrade of some type. They are usually pretty good at everything and about everything.

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post #24 of 33 Old 08-06-2012, 04:44 PM
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(770) 592-3823 is there number on the website. Let me know if you need more.

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post #25 of 33 Old 08-11-2012, 08:47 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpcraft View Post
Yeah, I'd pick up the phone personally. If no-one on here has a number and it isn't on their website PM me and I will most likely get a specific person for you. Knowing Traxxion they may make it up to you with an upgrade of some type. They are usually pretty good at everything and about everything.
Well, after a long letter written, and a couple of phone calls back and forth between me and Mike at Traxxion Dynamics, with him making phone calls back and forth between Penske and them, I was able to ship my shock back to Penske direct overnight, have it repaired in a day, as well as upgraded to the 8983, all on Penskeīs dime, and then sent back overnight, and it arrived here at my shop yesterday.

All in all Traxxion did right by upgrading the shock, but I did sorta have to work for it. They were not able to cover the cost of the labor for the extra on and off of the rear shock, so I basically told them I was out a couple hundo, and without some form of recourse, I would be a thoroughly dissatisfied customer, at which point I suggested the idea of them upgrading the shock, which basically covered the extra labor.

Initially I was about to bite the bullet and ask for a full refund plus labor, and then was going to go with an Ohlins, but since I would have lost $, I stuck with a Penske.

the 8983 is double adjustable,
Ride height and preload adjustable
16 - 20 clicks of compression adjustment
36 clicks of rebound adjustment

It should be interesting to see how much of an improvement the shock is over my bouncy stock. Will let everyone know how much an improvement it was.

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post #26 of 33 Old 08-11-2012, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sytheii View Post
Well, after a long letter written, and a couple of phone calls back and forth between me and Mike at Traxxion Dynamics, with him making phone calls back and forth between Penske and them, I was able to ship my shock back to Penske direct overnight, have it repaired in a day, as well as upgraded to the 8983, all on Penskeīs dime, and then sent back overnight, and it arrived here at my shop yesterday.

All in all Traxxion did right by upgrading the shock, but I did sorta have to work for it. They were not able to cover the cost of the labor for the extra on and off of the rear shock, so I basically told them I was out a couple hundo, and without some form of recourse, I would be a thoroughly dissatisfied customer, at which point I suggested the idea of them upgrading the shock, which basically covered the extra labor.

Initially I was about to bite the bullet and ask for a full refund plus labor, and then was going to go with an Ohlins, but since I would have lost $, I stuck with a Penske.

the 8983 is double adjustable,
Ride height and preload adjustable
16 - 20 clicks of compression adjustment
36 clicks of rebound adjustment

It should be interesting to see how much of an improvement the shock is over my bouncy stock. Will let everyone know how much an improvement it was.
I've been away and just saw all this today.
As soon as I saw the pic showing the spring adjuster collar topside, bells started ringing.

You are not "stuck" with a Penske.
You have one and it's good bit of kit.
It will transform the rear of your bike, in a goodly way.
You have the huge advantage of shock length adjustment, which the lower end Ohlins does not. (this advantage pays off in spades on the track)

I got my Penske new in early 2007.
I bought it as a 8986 (remote reservoir with hi speed comp adjuster, low speed rebound on body).
Simple bolt on, aside from having to open up the tray hole for the larger diameter reservoir.
I later had it converted to a 8987 triple clicker.
I had heard of people having to trim the upper mount on the frame, but mine had no such issue. I think Penske has used different heads for any given body over time, so that might be the explanation. All I know is that mine fit easily and perfectly - the way it is supposed to be.

Your shock has hi speed comp adjusting, correct ?
(Like my 8986 did before being reconfigured.)
This is significant, as what 919s respond primarily to is low speed compression adjustment, not hi speed compression.
Maybe things had changed, and you actually have a low speed comp adjuster.

You should have got damping force curves for the shock.
I'd love to see them.

My unit was further developed.
I ended up going to a digressive/linear piston, a # DL 005 2 degree dish to be exact. This was to gain additional initial travel low speed comp damping force as a track anti-squat means. It worked quite well. (We tried an intermediate piston but it was not effective re the low speed comp damping force I was after). The original piston was a design with damping force characteristics in between a classic linear/linear and hi flow linear/linear.
You should have got a build sheet, and in there you can determine the piston you have.

What spring rate did you get ?
Suppliers to me seem notorious for doing two things wrong spring wise on 919s.
Calling up too soft at the rear and too stiff at the front.
Nothing less than 1000 # / inch at the back is my rather strong opinion.
0.875 to 0.925 kg/mm at the front will bracket most needs, with 0.95 being an upper limit for the remaining. There will be circumstances for extremely few that will benefit from over 0.95, but I've yet to hear of one here. For sure, anything over 0.95 needs to be looked at real hard, and I don't remember ever seeing a "happy post" involving the use of over 0.95.

Hopefully this helps you some.

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post #27 of 33 Old 08-11-2012, 07:14 PM
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Yeah the Penske 8983 is a great piece. Traditionally Penske tends to go a little light on their spring rates so if it feels squishy it is an easy change. You can get replacement springs off ebay if necessary.

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post #28 of 33 Old 08-11-2012, 09:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44

I've been away and just saw all this today.
As soon as I saw the pic showing the spring adjuster collar topside, bells started ringing.

You are not "stuck" with a Penske.
You have one and it's good bit of kit.
It will transform the rear of your bike, in a goodly way.
You have the huge advantage of shock length adjustment, which the lower end Ohlins does not. (this advantage pays off in spades on the track)

I got my Penske new in early 2007.
I bought it as a 8986 (remote reservoir with hi speed comp adjuster, low speed rebound on body).
Simple bolt on, aside from having to open up the tray hole for the larger diameter reservoir.
I later had it converted to a 8987 triple clicker.
I had heard of people having to trim the upper mount on the frame, but mine had no such issue. I think Penske has used different heads for any given body over time, so that might be the explanation. All I know is that mine fit easily and perfectly - the way it is supposed to be.

Your shock has hi speed comp adjusting, correct ?
(Like my 8986 did before being reconfigured.)
This is significant, as what 919s respond primarily to is low speed compression adjustment, not hi speed compression.
Maybe things had changed, and you actually have a low speed comp adjuster.

You should have got damping force curves for the shock.
I'd love to see them.

My unit was further developed.
I ended up going to a digressive/linear piston, a # DL 005 2 degree dish to be exact. This was to gain additional initial travel low speed comp damping force as a track anti-squat means. It worked quite well. (We tried an intermediate piston but it was not effective re the low speed comp damping force I was after). The original piston was a design with damping force characteristics in between a classic linear/linear and hi flow linear/linear.
You should have got a build sheet, and in there you can determine the piston you have.

What spring rate did you get ?
Suppliers to me seem notorious for doing two things wrong spring wise on 919s.
Calling up too soft at the rear and too stiff at the front.
Nothing less than 1000 # / inch at the back is my rather strong opinion.
0.875 to 0.925 kg/mm at the front will bracket most needs, with 0.95 being an upper limit for the remaining. There will be circumstances for extremely few that will benefit from over 0.95, but I've yet to hear of one here. For sure, anything over 0.95 needs to be looked at real hard, and I don't remember ever seeing a "happy post" involving the use of over 0.95.

Hopefully this helps you some.
Um, i said that i was "going to stick" with the penske, not that I was "stuck," there being a distinction between the two in that I am not unhappy for that fact. The obvious reason, which I explain, is that i don't pay the price (literally) and lose money because of their error.

As far as your other comments go, lots of info and it seems like you really know what you are talking about. I had originally gone with the 8900e as a simple replacement/upgraded shock, but per their mishap, i ended up with the 8983. I will definately take a look at the build sheet, if they supplied it with the shock, or ask for one, and see if i cant compare the numbers in there with what youve said.

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post #29 of 33 Old 08-12-2012, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by sytheii View Post
Um, i said that i was "going to stick" with the penske, not that I was "stuck," there being a distinction between the two in that I am not unhappy for that fact. The obvious reason, which I explain, is that i don't pay the price (literally) and lose money because of their error.

As far as your other comments go, lots of info and it seems like you really know what you are talking about. I had originally gone with the 8900e as a simple replacement/upgraded shock, but per their mishap, i ended up with the 8983. I will definately take a look at the build sheet, if they supplied it with the shock, or ask for one, and see if i cant compare the numbers in there with what youve said.
$$$ wise it has all worked out well for you, and that is good to see. Supplier error should not cost you, that is for sure. The Penske is infinitely better than stock, there simply is no relationship.

My guess is that you will interested in two older threads, both started by arctic954 re his Penske for his 919.
I don't know how to paste in the links, but the search feature works.
Do a thread based search for 8900e and near the bottom are the two I'm suggesting. One is "Penske Install..............." and the other is "Penske Special in September ?". There is more meat in the former than the latter.

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post #30 of 33 Old 08-12-2012, 09:03 AM Thread Starter
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$$$ wise it has all worked out well for you, and that is good to see. Supplier error should not cost you, that is for sure. The Penske is infinitely better than stock, there simply is no relationship.

My guess is that you will interested in two older threads, both started by arctic954 re his Penske for his 919.
I don't know how to paste in the links, but the search feature works.
Do a thread based search for 8900e and near the bottom are the two I'm suggesting. One is "Penske Install..............." and the other is "Penske Special in September ?". There is more meat in the former than the latter.
Cool bro, I will look for em, also, just so you know, Traxxion Dynamics should have worked with Penske and set everything up for me as far as valving and whatnot (I really don't know about whatnot) so I figure that the range for the build and spring rare, so on, may be tailored to my req. like weight etc. They also ask you what your main purpose in riding the bike is, and I chose commuter, so, we'll see if it is up to snuff

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post #31 of 33 Old 08-12-2012, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by sytheii View Post
Cool bro, I will look for em, also, just so you know, Traxxion Dynamics should have worked with Penske and set everything up for me as far as valving and whatnot (I really don't know about whatnot) so I figure that the range for the build and spring rare, so on, may be tailored to my req. like weight etc. They also ask you what your main purpose in riding the bike is, and I chose commuter, so, we'll see if it is up to snuff
T D should have and surely did. T D is not where the problem was. Something to ponder. When I got my Penske from Jim Lindemann (we talked on the phone, etc., not just e mail), the spring selection seemed to be the only thing he was looking at. Penske had the 919 listed as being standard with a 900# spring, that based on the stocker of 04 and later. Jim moved me to a 1000. 900# on any kind of quality shock is way too light, for a 919 that is. Something else, the damping force curves that came with my shock referred to a Triumph Tiger 1050. My guess was the actual damping unit was common, with just the mounting ends and eye to eye lengths being different. 1050s are linked, 919s are not. So a 919 transmits way more squat force to the damper than a 1050.

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post #32 of 33 Old 08-12-2012, 09:51 AM
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A few more 919 rear tidbits for those reading this thread.
My pursuit and development was track driven, not road.
My final setup ended up nicely bridging both, as long as I back off the low and hi speed compression adjusters for road riding, and with my wife on the back it is surprisingly compliant at "touring speeds".
There is no issue with road surface generated input energy in terms of damping a 919 at the rear. But, there is a squat issue, with manifests itself in a big way on the track. The 919 makes lots of torque and does that over most of the useful RPM curve. No matter where you are, there is fat torque numbers on tap. Being a naked bike, it is geared for a lower speed than a decently faired SS would have. So the engine torque effect is essentially multiplied more. The 919 does not have linked swing arm, so the forces are not reduced by linkage ratio so the damper sees highly leveraged squat forces. The 919 has an excessively flat swing arm angle, which makes the ratio of squat to antisquat highly disadvantageous. These are the things that all conspire together and make the 919 a REALLY good "Squatmeister". Therefore, for heavy track use and any level of riding, stiffer springing, increased shock length (I run the bike real tall front and back), digressive piston facing on the compression side, and closed down low speed compression damping settings prove useful. Relevant for typical road riding ? Not at all. Track ? Yes.
I'll bet that there is not a single rear damper supplier that has really examined a 919 rear in terms of track use, and that over 95 % of all rear dampers sold are totally or mostly street oriented. Except for LDH at Dan Kyle that is, and I still go back from time to time and read his article on his stock 919 track experiences. I had the same rear end pogoing that he did, until it was figured out how to get rid of it. LDH focused on being able to continually ride through it all and not spend a cent. I was driven to get rid of what scared me and get what I wanted, something I call chassis margin. I want lots of chassis margin so I know that I have lots of cushion and that my riding is 110 % of why I am where I am on the track, be it a race on the 750 or a track day on the 919.

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post #33 of 33 Old 08-12-2012, 10:35 AM
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Squat & Anti-Squat
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackheart
Adding some throttle raises the rear, which gives more clearance, as well as putting the suspension stroke in a position to better respond to irregularities in the road surface.
You hit on a very interesting point, and your rear suspension could very well be rising upon acceleration, contrary to what some others might think is possible.

McRomo44:
Whether the rear suspension extends or compresses under acceleration is bike specific mode specific thing that is governed by the squat / anti squat force equilibrium.
Some can extend.
Some compress.
919s are notorious for compressing, a.k.a. squatting, and if by chance one gets on the gas just having hit a bump, it's even worse.
The squat/anti squat relationship is very complex.
So far, I've only found one source of definitive text on it.
That is Chapter 9 of Tony Foale's book called Motorcycle Handling and Chassis Design. (The book is heavy with engineering and is really a textbook.)
Andrew Trevitt's (excellent) book Sportbike Suspension Tuning does a nice job of dealing with it in abbreviated and conceptual terms on page 79-83.

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