'06 919 rear shock kaputt - what now? - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 69 Old 06-20-2017, 08:29 AM Thread Starter
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'06 919 rear shock kaputt - what now?

Hi, I finally bought a '06 919 with 14k miles on the clock. It needs a bit work, nothing major, but I think the rear shock might be worn out.

In the garage, when I sit on the bike and bounce my 200 pounds hard on the seat it clearly bottoms out with a noticable 'bonk'. And this is with the preload all the way up to 7. Also, when bouncing back up, it makes a hissing sound, like sucking air.

I haven't ridden it much as I'm working on it, but yes it feels sloppy.

So I have two questions:
- are these symptoms normal and that's just the way it is, or is the shock blown? Sorry I have no comparison to another 919 but compared to my SV650 this feels bad.
- if the shock is indeed blown, what to do.. is it worthwhile rebuilding? Where do you bring it for rebuilding? I am mechanically inclined but don't want to mess with big springs and nitrogen. Or replace with new Honda stocker? I don't want to shell out a 1000 on ohlins.

Btw I have dialed in damping per manual and the bike doesn't oscillate/bounce too much, but it seems way too soft.

Would appreciate any comments!

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post #2 of 69 Old 06-20-2017, 08:57 AM
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sounds blown to me.

Get a penske or Nitron or something other than stock if your putting money in to it anyways. Or get a stocker from someone here or ebay.

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post #3 of 69 Old 06-20-2017, 10:06 AM Thread Starter
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thanks, if someone has a stocker or aftermarket for sale pls pm me.. also posted in 'want to buy'.

Out of curiosity, can the shock be serviced? What kind of shop would do that? Or is it just not worthwhile..

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post #4 of 69 Old 06-20-2017, 10:54 AM
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Calling @LDH to the suspension rescue :P

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post #5 of 69 Old 06-20-2017, 11:57 AM
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That seems strange. The spring itself should handle this, for the spring to be worn to the point where it's bottoming out just doesn't seem right. I can see the dampening effect of the shock, but shouldn't the spring itself handle a 200# man bouncing on it?

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post #6 of 69 Old 06-20-2017, 12:01 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah I was wondering that too. And the dampening actually seems ok. Is the hissing sound normal? Also I dont see any leakage on shock or reservoir..And 7 preload is the hardest right?

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post #7 of 69 Old 06-20-2017, 04:03 PM
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post #8 of 69 Old 06-20-2017, 04:17 PM
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Sounds like your shock has died. Doesn't happen too often. Can you put up a video or some pics? Might be a good excuse for a rear shock upgrade.

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post #9 of 69 Old 06-20-2017, 06:12 PM Thread Starter
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here's the video, hope it comes across allright: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8hk18uii0y...4_001.mp4?dl=0

I swear I weigh 194 pounds, although this makes it look like I'm 500!

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post #10 of 69 Old 06-20-2017, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
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here's the video, hope it comes across allright: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8hk18uii0y...4_001.mp4?dl=0

I swear I weigh 194 pounds, although this makes it look like I'm 500!
If the hydraulics are gone, and all there is is spring resistance and it's a late model 919 with mush rear spring, seeing that clip is no surprise -and even more so if the preload collar is mid range or softer.

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post #11 of 69 Old 06-20-2017, 10:56 PM Thread Starter
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Its an 06 and the preload is all the way up to 7.. makes me wonder. But I guess from here on its basically ohlins or penske.. Or what?

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post #12 of 69 Old 06-21-2017, 04:28 AM
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That just seems strange, looks like the travel at the shaft is something like 1", and that looks like enough to bottom out. I guess it can happen, but the shock and the spring serve two different functions. If the stock spring were dependent on the shock, that wouldn't seem right, the shock doesn't support weight, it just dampens movement after the spring has done a full cycle. In other words, it keeps it from cycling past 1 or 2 cycles.

Example, the test for a car is to bounce it as hard as you can, then see how many times AFTER you let go that it keeps bouncing. It was never about how high it bounces.

Even if all the fluid were removed, the spring should be able to cycle all by itself. From the looks of the video, it's hard to tell how much travel the suspension is going thru, but it does look like there would be more movement for the rear. Oh well, it's not like anyone ever bragged about how great those rear shock were anyways
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post #13 of 69 Old 06-21-2017, 09:10 AM
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Did the previous owner re-spring the bike for a lighter rider? Used a lowering spring for a shorter rider? Can you measure the static spring height for us?

Side note: I am all of 240# with gear, and my 06 seems really stiff to me on the 4th preload setting, and I can not even get close to bottoming out- even with my wife on it with me.

Something in you're set up is definitely wrong...

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post #14 of 69 Old 06-21-2017, 10:55 AM Thread Starter
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yeah, something's seriously wrong here. Previous owner had no idea about bikes in general he didn't even notice the chain had about 4 inches slack so I doubt I get any info from him.

I checked the upper and lower bolts, and everything looks right. Also I double-checked the collar for preload setting and everything looks correct. I set it to 7, and it sits right there on the highest notch.

Static sag- will have to do some measurements tonight but with bike on side stand, the clear rod coming out of the damper (sorry I don't know the specific term here) is about 1.5 inches long. So the whole thing has 1.5 inches total travel and that is with me off the bike!

I'm kind of puzzled by this but I guess what it boils down to is either a used stock shock off ebay or a proper ohlins/racetech/penske.

Strangely enough the front seems perfectly fine.

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post #15 of 69 Old 06-21-2017, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by druegeme View Post
yeah, something's seriously wrong here. Previous owner had no idea about bikes in general he didn't even notice the chain had about 4 inches slack so I doubt I get any info from him.

I checked the upper and lower bolts, and everything looks right. Also I double-checked the collar for preload setting and everything looks correct. I set it to 7, and it sits right there on the highest notch.

Static sag- will have to do some measurements tonight but with bike on side stand, the clear rod coming out of the damper (sorry I don't know the specific term here) is about 1.5 inches long. So the whole thing has 1.5 inches total travel and that is with me off the bike!

I'm kind of puzzled by this but I guess what it boils down to is either a used stock shock off ebay or a proper ohlins/racetech/penske.

Strangely enough the front seems perfectly fine.
I looked up the travel on WiKi, but that was for the older 900F. What I tried to do was put a tape measure next to the bike and a camera so I could measure the travel.

Another trick is to put a rod in the rear foot set and mark the travel that way.

The suck part is that the stock shock isn't well liked, some take another (F4) and have it re-valved for about 1/2 the price of new, and top of the line is the Ohlins in the 900+ range.

I've never heard of anyone having the stock one re sprung and having that really improve things, it's always been about the guts.

Are you really sure there isn't something broken like a mounting bolt? Might be worth a dismount just to check if something is broken.

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post #16 of 69 Old 06-21-2017, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by druegeme View Post
yeah, something's seriously wrong here. Previous owner had no idea about bikes in general he didn't even notice the chain had about 4 inches slack so I doubt I get any info from him.

I checked the upper and lower bolts, and everything looks right. Also I double-checked the collar for preload setting and everything looks correct. I set it to 7, and it sits right there on the highest notch.

Static sag- will have to do some measurements tonight but with bike on side stand, the clear rod coming out of the damper (sorry I don't know the specific term here) is about 1.5 inches long. So the whole thing has 1.5 inches total travel and that is with me off the bike!

I'm kind of puzzled by this but I guess what it boils down to is either a used stock shock off ebay or a proper ohlins/racetech/penske.

Strangely enough the front seems perfectly fine.
A fully assembled factory shock/spring unit at full extension has about 26 mm (1 inch = 25.4 mm) of bare shock shaft exposed to the eye. The shaft mounted snubber at the bottom eye end of the shock adds some more stroke length when it's engaged in a bottom out scenario.

So, your total 4.7 inches of vertical wheel travel comes from the axle being as far as it is from the swing arm pivot point, the bare shock shaft length, and the snubber compression.

If you are getting a "clunk" at full compression, I have to wonder if the snubber is gone or badly rotted to the point of uselessness.

If the snubber is gone, that could be suggestive that someone took the shock off and disassembled it.
IF they did, maybe they forgot the spring centreing washer that rests between the spring end and the preload collar.
In which case the installed spring height will be wrong, with the spring loading up on the preload collar.
AND if a butcher was involved, maybe they attempted or succeeded in removing the reservoir and unwittingly broke into the sealed gas charged hydraulics.

KarlJay just posted shortly ago and suggested removing the shock to allow full and unhindered inspection.
It's an easy job to do, and would permit proper inspection.

Clearly, something is not right.
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post #17 of 69 Old 06-21-2017, 03:15 PM Thread Starter
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ok thanks guys, really appreciate all the pointers. I'll hoist her up tonight and remove the shock and see what's going on.

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post #18 of 69 Old 06-21-2017, 05:27 PM
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ok thanks guys, really appreciate all the pointers. I'll hoist her up tonight and remove the shock and see what's going on.
Good idea. That noise is nasty. I've got a stock 02' you can buy if you want. I took it off cause I wanted a more comfortable ride. I replaced it with a Wilbers adjustable progressive shock. German engineering, works very well, cheaper than Ohlins and most importantly it's black.
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post #19 of 69 Old 06-21-2017, 07:20 PM Thread Starter
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ok let's see if this gets us closer to the 'bottom' of it.. I can't see anything unusual or any signs of butchering. Bolts look fine, too. But how can the spring be so worn out?

I like the idea of a Wilbers..
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post #20 of 69 Old 06-21-2017, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by druegeme View Post
ok let's see if this gets us closer to the 'bottom' of it.. I can't see anything unusual or any signs of butchering. Bolts look fine, too. But how can the spring be so worn out?

I like the idea of a Wilbers..
I'll take some pics of my Wilbers rear shock after work and put them up for ya.
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post #21 of 69 Old 06-22-2017, 12:07 AM
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Here you go. I've had it about a year. Works great, I liked the black. I had one small issue. The remote reservoir has its hose mounted at the back. Made fitting it a little awkward. I put a rubber mat behind it to keep the banjo nut away from the coolant reservoir. Wilbers fitting instructions showed a different remote reservoir, the hose went straight in one end. So don't know what happened there. Most likely the bike is so long out of production they use a generic reservoir. Anyway got there in the end. Everything else great. The shock was setup to my weight and riding style had to wait a bit.
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post #22 of 69 Old 06-22-2017, 12:12 AM
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Now that you have the shock out, cycle the rear suspension thru it's normal range and see if you hear/feel anything.

The shock doesn't seem to have any marks where it would be hitting, usually you'd see something.

IDK how hard it would be to check the spring rate, maybe a shop can check it. Is there an easy way to remove the spring? Another thing is to cycle the shock and if it makes any noise. Maybe there's something broken inside.

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post #23 of 69 Old 06-22-2017, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
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Here you go. I've had it about a year. Works great, I liked the black. I had one small issue. The remote reservoir has its hose mounted at the back. Made fitting it a little awkward. I put a rubber mat behind it to keep the banjo nut away from the coolant reservoir. Wilbers fitting instructions showed a different remote reservoir, the hose went straight in one end. So don't know what happened there. Most likely the bike is so long out of production they use a generic reservoir. Anyway got there in the end. Everything else great. The shock was setup to my weight and riding style had to wait a bit.
How much did that set you back?

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post #24 of 69 Old 06-22-2017, 12:30 AM
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Just under $800.00 Australian dollars. On special a year ago. Took about 5 weeks to get it.

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post #25 of 69 Old 06-22-2017, 08:05 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. Swingarms move just fine nothing shocking here.

At this point I am not sure how much more analysis is needed. As mentioned the shock makes a pfft sound on the rebound. I am rather positive it's toast although it bugs me that I dont know exactly what happened and why.

I found out that Wilbers actually has their US shop right here in Scotts Valley a few minutes from here. Maybe I just swing by there later today or give them a call.
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post #26 of 69 Old 06-22-2017, 08:21 AM
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Im willing to be that spring was replaced for a lighter rider somewhere in the past. It look like if you put the pre-load adjuster all the way down that it would allow the shock to be collapsed before it was even compressed. Just for giggles try backing the adjuster all the way down and see where the spring becomes loose and unseated.

Maybe I need more coffee...

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post #27 of 69 Old 06-22-2017, 08:59 AM
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post #28 of 69 Old 06-22-2017, 09:18 AM
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I know I'm beating a dead horse and worshiping at the alter of Ohlins, but like others have said, it's so so worth it. I rode mine for 3 years before putting it on and it's simply transformative. If you're already going to spend $500+ on a shock, really consider stepping up to the Ohlins. If you're concerned about the price, they hold their value extremely well and sell used routinely for well over $600. Say you're gonna ride your 919 for 5+ years, you're only paying an additional $100 a year for a premium product. I'm not saying it's not a lot of money, but I'll let Ron Swanson explain:

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post #29 of 69 Old 06-22-2017, 09:25 AM Thread Starter
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I hear ya.. But I also like the idea of a local shop (Wilbers). I will check them out later today. Heck maybe they can figure out my current shock. If they can I'm sold.

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post #30 of 69 Old 06-22-2017, 09:29 AM
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post #31 of 69 Old 06-22-2017, 10:04 AM
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IDK how great the Wilbers is, but the Ohlins gets nothing but top reviews.

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post #32 of 69 Old 06-22-2017, 11:20 AM
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If there is a Wilbers shock shop close you, ya got to at least check it out. And let us know what you find. Good of LDH to offer the Ohlins.

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post #33 of 69 Old 06-22-2017, 11:43 AM Thread Starter
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Ah wait I didnt realize LDH is offering.. Thanks for that. Is that an Ohlins? How much are talking.. Just curious. the Wilbers guys want 800 incl tax for their competition model and seem to be real competent also offer free service and adjustments for the first year

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post #34 of 69 Old 06-22-2017, 12:08 PM
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The Ohlins HO-201 retails for $1100. I sell them ever so cleverly to my 919 brothers for $919 which comes up to $999 with tax for California residents. It's instant bolt on perfection and will not need any service or adjustments because it was designed by the worlds leading suspension company. There is no guesswork involved. Bolt it on, set your sag, go ride the snot out of it and never think about it again... It's so good that the best part of it having it is not what you notice it is what you don't notice about riding that makes all the difference!!!!
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post #35 of 69 Old 06-22-2017, 01:37 PM
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post #36 of 69 Old 06-22-2017, 03:30 PM Thread Starter
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ok shopping for shocks is fun, but more root cause analysis... See what I found:

Looks like a bent rearset? (swingarm is centered)
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post #37 of 69 Old 06-22-2017, 03:43 PM
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You sir are correct! Somebody dropped her and pushed the rearset in. Bummer!
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post #38 of 69 Old 06-22-2017, 04:01 PM Thread Starter
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You sir are correct! Somebody dropped her and pushed the rearset in. Bummer!
well I think that means the shock might be basically OK I'm just missing the last bit of travel when the rearset hits the swingarm. There are some on ebay for around 50 bucks.. meanwhile excuse me while I'll grab that mallet. I mean, it's just a rearset right?

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post #39 of 69 Old 06-22-2017, 04:16 PM
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They are the first thing to bend when dropped. "persuade" it back in place and move on.
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post #40 of 69 Old 06-22-2017, 04:22 PM
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Very common on the 919 for the right rear set to stick out further than the left. They came like it new. Many have a loose left hand stock bar end as well. The rear sets are aluminium. It work fatigues quickly. I had to get my right rearset welded. It had cracked at its top mount cause the bike was dropped and the rearset was bent back out afterwards. That was when it cracked. I think your travel is excessive. I doubt if the rearset and swing arm should ever met like that with a good shock.

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