Retro-fitted a new PC-5 to a 25 yr old bike - Wrist Twisters
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 15 Old 09-20-2009, 09:54 PM Thread Starter
Tribuni Angusticlavii
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,704
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Trackday Recognition Donation 
Total Awards: 2

Retro-fitted a new PC-5 to a 25 yr old bike

A long boring story for you insomniacs
With the recent addition of an intercooler, my bike makes mad power now and I'm worried about proper fueling particularly at high boost where you're more likely to perforate a piston.
Power commanders come from the factory with bike-specific plugs. Yeah, I chopped those right off.
It's a pretty simple device really: 4 injector signals in, 4 injector signals out, tps, and dc power. The 750 turbo has one injector wire out of its ecu that splits into four somewhere in the loom. After chopping the plugs off the pc5, I cut my bike's injector wire, grouped the eight pc wires into two groups of four, then attached each group to the appropriate single wire on the bike.
PC-5's have a 0-5v analog input that you can use for just about whatever you want so I thought it'd be the perfect device to tune a turbo bike because I could attach a boost sensor to this input and add fuel based on boost pressure.
The problem was with my old tps. All the new ones show 0v with the throttle closed and 5v wide open. Mine shows 5v closed. Dammit.
So I attached the PC5's tps wire to my boost sensor the way Turbo guys in the UK do with their pc3's. This makes the tuning confusing at first until your brain gets used to it. The 0% throttle column is all my off boost adjustment while 100% equates to 20psi of boost.
I installed new injectors for this project as dynojet requires high impedence ones. My pc5 was originally for a zx14 but as soon as I got it I loaded a zero map. With the new fat injectors, the zero map was so rich it wouldn't even run. I entered negative numbers ten at a time into my 0% column until it idled happily which turned out to be -30. With the bike on the lift, I revved to a few different rpms, listened, and slowly created my own base map.
Now I'm ready to activate the Autotune module. With this and the 5-wire Bosch o2 sensor in place, you bring up a Target afr table and tell it where you want to be at what rpm/throttle. But also, with the bike running and the laptop connected it displays current afr onscreen which gives you some more data to rough tune with.
After filling out the table and going for a ride, it creates a list of suggestions and you choose to apply them or not. While watching the laptop, I noticed some latency of the o2 sensor sniffing the exhaust and displaying the data. I kept this in mind while riding, trying my best to maintain certain boost levels at certain rpms for several seconds at a time so the sensor had time to adjust.
For safety, it will only change the current map 20% at a time so if you're base is way off it will take a few rides to get where you want to be. Mine was pretty close.

My fabricator friend thinks we can install a 2nd tps solely for the pc5 so this is really just the beginning but in the meantime, the bike is running great and I'm reasonably confident I won't go too lean when trying to break the sound barrier.

gpzTurbo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 Old 09-21-2009, 04:31 AM
So, you're a human...
 
adamjayp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 470
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Veteran 
Total Awards: 1



Oh, and even though it's just a bunch of solder and wires - I always like pics of motorcycles.


adamjayp is offline  
post #3 of 15 Old 09-21-2009, 11:34 AM
Chuck Norris has lost in battle with this Member
 
Pacojerte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: ft lauderdale fl
Posts: 12,874
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 2

it never ceases to amaze me the amount of talent and depth of knowledge that we are blessed with here on this site....


gpz... you are truly a mad scientist....



Pacojerte is offline  
 
post #4 of 15 Old 09-21-2009, 12:44 PM
The 919 project continues
 
mdtoney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,427
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Veteran 
Total Awards: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by barton664 View Post
it never ceases to amaze me the amount of talent and depth of knowledge that we are blessed with here on this site....


gpz... you are truly a mad scientist....

Haha, I agree - I love stuff like this! That thing must be a beast when it's on the boost!!

mdtoney is offline  
post #5 of 15 Old 09-21-2009, 01:06 PM
Praefectus Castrorum
 
brevity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: East TN
Posts: 4,392
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Extraordinary Ride Donation 
Total Awards: 3

We need a video of a whining high-speed pass! Go for broke (figuratively speaking of course--as safely as that lightning bolt will allow)!!!!!!!!!!!!

Spoiler:
"The list is an absolute good. The list is life."

"What kind'a tires you runnin'?"

brevity is offline  
post #6 of 15 Old 09-21-2009, 01:37 PM
Tribuni Angusticlavii
 
McCrimmon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 3,726
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 3

Very impressive! And totally makes since. Glad it's working out for you!


2008 Yamaha FZ1-Street
2005 Honda CBR 600rr-Track
McCrimmon is offline  
post #7 of 15 Old 09-21-2009, 07:01 PM Thread Starter
Tribuni Angusticlavii
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,704
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Trackday Recognition Donation 
Total Awards: 2

Thanks fellas. Wait a minute - what must be wrong with me that I take "mad scientist" as a compliment?

Under the seat just behind the battery and the tank bracket there's a small tool tray which made a great place for two little plastic boxes and centrally located too. Upper left : o2 sensor wire, lower left: autotune power wire, lower right: pc5 cable . You can see the little jumper that connects them both together.
They're rougly spliced at the moment just to make sure it would work. Once I solder it up and make it pretty I'll post a pic of the junction.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 0918091638.jpg (20.6 KB, 24 views)

gpzTurbo is offline  
post #8 of 15 Old 09-21-2009, 09:05 PM
SiB
Tirone
 
SiB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: alberta, canada
Posts: 72
Rep Power: 1
 
Sounds like its time to hack one up (pc5) for my 919.....

SiB is offline  
post #9 of 15 Old 09-22-2009, 04:20 PM Thread Starter
Tribuni Angusticlavii
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,704
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Trackday Recognition Donation 
Total Awards: 2

I enjoy deciphering wires & making stuff work but I wouldn't do it to a bike that has modules with correct plugs available for it. Plus there are dozens of pc3 maps out there to try for your bike. According to the paperwork PC3 maps don't work in a pc5.
Chopping up a good niner would only lower its value too.

gpzTurbo is offline  
post #10 of 15 Old 09-22-2009, 07:55 PM
SiB
Tirone
 
SiB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: alberta, canada
Posts: 72
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpzTurbo View Post
I enjoy deciphering wires & making stuff work but I wouldn't do it to a bike that has modules with correct plugs available for it. Plus there are dozens of pc3 maps out there to try for your bike. According to the paperwork PC3 maps don't work in a pc5.
Chopping up a good niner would only lower its value too.
Ya I am an auto tech by day.... I was thinking about using the old PC3 (non-usb) connectors on the pc5.... need to adjust for boost! A PC3 USB is not far behind a 5 for price. Just throwing ideas out there for now.

SiB is offline  
post #11 of 15 Old 09-23-2009, 04:00 AM Thread Starter
Tribuni Angusticlavii
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,704
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Trackday Recognition Donation 
Total Awards: 2

Oh...didn't you ask me about an adjustable fpr? Sorry I forgot. The one we use is 1:1 I think. At low levels that's fine but it tends to not be enough when you dial it up.
You have your turbo installed? You really should get a pc and a dyno session.

gpzTurbo is offline  
post #12 of 15 Old 09-23-2009, 09:58 PM
SiB
Tirone
 
SiB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: alberta, canada
Posts: 72
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpzTurbo View Post
Oh...didn't you ask me about an adjustable fpr? Sorry I forgot. The one we use is 1:1 I think. At low levels that's fine but it tends to not be enough when you dial it up.
You have your turbo installed? You really should get a pc and a dyno session.
Nope not installed yet, this winters project, snow is about..... 2 weeks away. So still working out the details, and yes I asked you about the FPR. I was wondering how far a PC can be adjusted, or if other things need to be done.... FPR/static fuel pressure/larger injectors... and so on.

SiB is offline  
post #13 of 15 Old 09-24-2009, 12:08 PM
Heavy Metal
 
ratdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: swamp in the wood
Posts: 4,304
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Extraordinary Ride Donation Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 5

What about a rising rate FPR?

If you're going to squirt, why not squirt big??

ratdog is offline  
post #14 of 15 Old 09-24-2009, 03:06 PM Thread Starter
Tribuni Angusticlavii
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,704
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Trackday Recognition Donation 
Total Awards: 2

me or SiB?
Mine uses one already, from the factory.

Nice to see ya Ratdog. How's the shoulder?

gpzTurbo is offline  
post #15 of 15 Old 09-24-2009, 08:38 PM
Heavy Metal
 
ratdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: swamp in the wood
Posts: 4,304
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Extraordinary Ride Donation Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpzTurbo View Post
me or SiB?
Mine uses one already, from the factory.

Nice to see ya Ratdog. How's the shoulder?
omg what a freakin' disaster

they pulled me off the operating table freakin' out cause they found something else...turns out i've got busted ribs, arm, scapula and now heart, kidney and liver problems left over from thyroid b.s. a decade ago...been to see 20 specialists/dr's, tons of bloodwork and am just waiting for surgical clearance, hopefully tomorrow, then i'll be back on the table mon/tues for round 1...the "do-over", depressing as hell, the shoulder has been detached for going on 2mos now while the b.s. get straightened out....wish me luck /end rant

and i meant anyone goin turbo upgrade should consider rising-rate fpr, it's like step 2 in turbo upgrades...but u know that, squirt it, you won't hurt it

btw pc3 maps can be converted to the pc5 setup, it just extrapolates to fill in the extra blanks...no good for your app though...would work for other 9rs upgrading but they oughtta do the dyno stuff anyhow

ratdog is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wrist Twisters forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome