pazzo lever knock-offs? - Wrist Twisters
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Old 02-28-2010, 09:02 AM Thread Starter
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pazzo lever knock-offs?

How different are the real-deal pazzo's vs. the cheaper knock-off's?

Anyone used both and feel a difference?

Both are just adjustable, CNC'd aluminum levers, what makes the difference in price?

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Old 02-28-2010, 10:01 AM
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We all can thank China for reducing the resale value of CRG's and Pazzo's.

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Old 02-28-2010, 10:17 AM
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I'll never understand why we can not make those here (USA) for at least close to the same price.

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Old 02-28-2010, 10:24 AM
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Labor.....Wages

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Old 02-28-2010, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgecrusher4444 View Post
Labor.....Wages
I don't believe it, we can do it better and quicker, always have been able too.

Might take a cottage industry and people who are not too greedy.

Even with slave labor, how items can be shipped from China to here for so much less leads me to think something is very, very wrong.

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Old 02-28-2010, 11:51 AM
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Maybe Pazzo, CRG and Rizoma etc.... is just ridiculously overpriced
Both are branded as something unique and rarely alone in the light of the ridiculous prices charged for it.
In no way will I give it four five times the price!
"I don't believe it, we can do it better and quicker, always have been able too"
Absolutely UJM, only difference is the labor rate, steel, aluminum, etc. have a world market price, only difference is the salary

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Old 02-28-2010, 02:43 PM
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I'll never understand why we can not make those here (USA) for at least close to the same price.
Machinist union.

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Old 02-28-2010, 05:08 PM Thread Starter
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So I guess we're saying there's no apparent difference between the knock off's and the branded ones.

...Are we even sure "real" CRG/Pazzo levers aren't coming out of the same factory in China as the knock off's in the first place?

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Old 02-28-2010, 05:49 PM
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its basically like this, you want to wear a rolex for a folex? there will ALWAYS be a difference in quality between a top of the line product and a knock off, no matter what type of product it is

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Old 02-28-2010, 06:34 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by hornet919 View Post
its basically like this, you want to wear a rolex for a folex? there will ALWAYS be a difference in quality between a top of the line product and a knock off, no matter what type of product it is
For many things yes, I agree. But after seeing first hand the factories in Asia where Teknic, Alpinestars, Komine etc. get made for a fraction of the retail price, the difference between some factory-brand items and their branded counterpart is really just a "label". Usually the branded stuff has to recoup the cost of R&D for a product which the knock-off's don't have to as the work has already been done for them. Not a good practice but it is what it is.

There might very well be a couple of cost-cutting differences like the laser-etched/painted logo, which can add some costs to the branded item but they might be non-functional differences that add to the cost but not the functionality. In terms of how they hold up in real world use, I dont have the riding experience to tell if there's a difference worth triple-the-price with these levers though. Maybe it's a cheaper grade of Aluminum? who knows at this point...
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Old 02-28-2010, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornet919 View Post
its basically like this, you want to wear a rolex for a folex? there will ALWAYS be a difference in quality between a top of the line product and a knock off, no matter what type of product it is
+1 are you willing to take a chance with your brake lever?...

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Old 02-28-2010, 08:24 PM
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Has anyone actually done a comparison ?
I saw clones at a shop, said no to myself, and stayed with CRGs.

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Old 02-28-2010, 09:46 PM
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I wouldn't take the chance personally. However I did purchase knock off bar ends. paid $30 for the pair and no problems.

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Old 02-28-2010, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
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+1 are you willing to take a chance with your brake lever?...
I've seen them on E_bay - heaps cheaper than CRG's etc - I too came to the same thought, is it worth risking it on a brake lever?


They may well be perfect and top quality - who is prepared to get a set and test them for us?

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Old 03-01-2010, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgecrusher4444 View Post
Labor.....Wages
vs. inflation 1970-2007 =

labor wages have increased 4%
management wages have increased 85%

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Old 03-01-2010, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanB View Post
I've seen them on E_bay - heaps cheaper than CRG's etc - I too came to the same thought, is it worth risking it on a brake lever?


They may well be perfect and top quality - who is prepared to get a set and test them for us?
i'm your huckelberry! someone send me a pair in red(or take up a collection for a pair) and i'll be your test mule

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Old 03-01-2010, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewvir View Post
vs. inflation 1970-2007 =

labor wages have increased 4%
management wages have increased 85%
Do your research ... stating things out of your ass!

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Old 03-01-2010, 07:16 AM
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Do your research ... stating things out of your ass!
If you just consider the average compensation (wages plus benefits) of full-time year-round workers in non-managerial jobs - roughly $40,000 - CEO pay is more like 270 times bigger than the average Joe's. That's still a far cry from days gone by. In 1989, for instance, U.S. CEOs of large companies earned 71 times more than the average worker, according to the Economic Policy Institute.

The IPS/UFE report also compared U.S. CEO pay to that of leaders in other fields and other countries. The top 20 CEOs of U.S. companies made an average of $36.4 million in 2006. That's 204 times that of the 20 highest paid U.S. military generals, and 38 times that of the 20 highest-paid non-profit leaders. They also made three times more than the top 20 CEOs of European companies who had booked higher sales numbers than their U.S. counterparts.

The pay gap numbers don't include the value of the many perks CEOs receive, which averaged $438,342, according to the report. Nor do they include the pension benefits CEOs receive.

you probally think the ceo's from the banks "we" bailed out deserve the pay and bonuses they got AFTER the bailout eventhough they did'nt pay back the money yet?

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Old 03-01-2010, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewvir View Post
If you just consider the average compensation (wages plus benefits) of full-time year-round workers in non-managerial jobs - roughly $40,000 - CEO pay is more like 270 times bigger than the average Joe's. That's still a far cry from days gone by. In 1989, for instance, U.S. CEOs of large companies earned 71 times more than the average worker, according to the Economic Policy Institute.

The IPS/UFE report also compared U.S. CEO pay to that of leaders in other fields and other countries. The top 20 CEOs of U.S. companies made an average of $36.4 million in 2006. That's 204 times that of the 20 highest paid U.S. military generals, and 38 times that of the 20 highest-paid non-profit leaders. They also made three times more than the top 20 CEOs of European companies who had booked higher sales numbers than their U.S. counterparts.

The pay gap numbers don't include the value of the many perks CEOs receive, which averaged $438,342, according to the report. Nor do they include the pension benefits CEOs receive.

you probally think the ceo's from the banks "we" bailed out deserve the pay and bonuses they got AFTER the bailout eventhough they did'nt pay back the money yet?
You initially said "management wages". Now you are referring to a small specific group of CEO's. Using your present logic ... the salaries of sports figures and actors have also out paced that of the average worker.

If you have a problem with CEO or management pay ... get with the program and change your choice of career.

The intent is not to turn this into a political thread, but lowering the level of uneducated and misinformed quoting of "facts". Thank your President for not holding the institutions that received "bail out" money for not holding them accountable.

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Old 03-01-2010, 07:54 AM
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[QUOTE=RC51_CBRXX;389368]You initially said "management wages". Now you are referring to a small specific group of CEO's. Using your present logic ... the salaries of sports figures and actors have also out paced that of the average worker.

1000% agreement,they don't deserve anywhere near what they get paid

If you have a problem with CEO or management pay ... get with the program and change your choice of career.the owner should make more than the worker. but greed has alot to do with the current economy.

The intent is not to turn this into a political thread, but lowering the level of uneducated and misinformed quoting of "facts". Thank your President for not holding the institutions that received "bail out" money for not holding them accountable.QUOTE]
true, if i was pres.i'd have been impeached for ordering thier assassination

sorry, hijack over

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Old 03-01-2010, 08:02 AM
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[QUOTE=drewvir;389369]
Quote:
Originally Posted by RC51_CBRXX View Post
... the owner should make more than the worker. but greed has alot to do with the current economy.
Much of the blame is in the hands of the average worker that has not been accountable for their own actions. Spending money they don't have and not being accountable or responsible for their own debt. Enough of derailing this thread.

Knock-off's can be as good as originals if not better, depending on the production methods and how you intend to use them? If they are billet machined ALU? ALU grade? Anodizing process? If you are just looking for looks? etc.

Rolex is far from being a great watch. Even Rolex will tell you that they do not sell watches or time-pieces, but luxury. You are buying an image, a lifestyle, etc.

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Old 03-01-2010, 10:32 AM
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what exactly is everyone so afraid of with the cheaper knock off's the they refuse to take the chance?

that the adjuster won't work or will wear out?
the lever will just not work one time when you try to apply the brakes?
the metal is cheaper and will wear down and get a sloppy after 10,20,30 years of use?
one day it will just bend because you apply the brakes hard?

just wondering because it's not a complicated piece of equipment.

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Old 03-01-2010, 10:38 AM
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1000% agreement,they don't deserve anywhere near what they get paid



true, if i was pres.i'd have been impeached for ordering thier assassination

sorry, hijack over
Wow, its scary you vote.

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Old 03-01-2010, 11:00 AM
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You guys do realize that Pazzo knocked off the CRG's right???

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Old 03-01-2010, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC51_CBRXX



Rolex is far from being a great watch. Even Rolex will tell you that they do not sell watches or time-pieces, but luxury. You are buying an image, a lifestyle, etc.
I'll give ya 20 bucks for that piece of crap Oyster Perpetual




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Old 03-01-2010, 11:23 AM
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Wow, its scary you vote.
don't ya just love AMERICA!

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Old 03-01-2010, 11:37 AM
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You guys do realize that Pazzo knocked off the CRG's right???


Good point!

And do the knock-offs add 5 extra hp to the bike?

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Old 03-01-2010, 11:39 AM
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So far, we are no where nearer to knowing anything about the knock offs. Anyway, I'm still glad that I got my CRG levers and bar end mirrors.

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Old 03-01-2010, 11:41 AM
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You guys do realize that Pazzo knocked off the CRG's right???

Interesting to know, but they must have stepped it a notch up in the sense that I was under the impression that it was Pazzo who came up with the hinged/folding/choose your term levers.

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Old 03-01-2010, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
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I don't believe it, we can do it better and quicker, always have been able too.

Might take a cottage industry and people who are not too greedy.

Even with slave labor, how items can be shipped from China to here for so much less leads me to think something is very, very wrong.
The essence of the problem is the simply "wanting to pay a Walmart price" for everything, but still expecting a "made in America paycheque". This coming from a Canadian, and Canadian are EXACTLY the same in this regard. And no one wants to talk about "convergence", let alone consider it. "Convergence" is the converging of "wanting to pay a Walmart price" with a "made in America paycheque" and if there was ever a scary thought, "Convergence" is it. Convergence is economics speak for "globalization". Uh oh, political rant, political rant. I stop now, sorry to all.

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Old 03-01-2010, 11:51 AM
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I don't have exact dates, but CRG had been building levers for years before Pazzo came onto the scene

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Old 03-01-2010, 03:59 PM Thread Starter
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My riding buddy has had a pair of knock-offs on his old fireblade for a few weeks now, They work fine according to him. No one in my riding circle has the branded pazzo's so we can't make specific comparisons to the "feel" of the knock offs vs. the branded ones. The only big difference I can IMAGINE that would warrant such a difference in price (aside from the obvious cheaper cost of labor in Asia) is is that the bearing might be a cheaper type or the alloy from which it is machined is different.

ON a different note. Have you guys checked out the DMV lever? Bit more bells and whistles than CRG/Pazzo for those who like functionality and bling. Adjustable length So you can go shoty, standard or anything inbetween and it pivots up and down to minimize crash damage and undoubtedly will soon suffer the fate of being knocked-off in China too...that's if it's not coming out of there in the first place.
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Old 03-01-2010, 04:34 PM
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Meh... The OEM levers on almost all the Japanese bikes are cheaply cast and barely finished/machined low quality aluminum. They are like $25 bux and I have had the same POS brake lever on my most ridden bike for 14 years with no signs of failure. It is awful shiny from being used.

They have even survived 2 crashes with some scuffing and a slight bend. I might go crazy and get a new one for $25 but then again, I could use that same $25 for a days worth of fuel for riding. :001_smile:

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Old 03-01-2010, 05:18 PM
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don't ya just love AMERICA!
I sure do comrade. So between you & me that makes one.

Let me guess, despite your longing for a regime in which the government "assassinates" private citizens to take their wealth & redistribute it to those to which it rightfully belongs; you are one of those that called Bush "Hitler."

Oh, I know I'm taking it waaayyyy to serious & he didn't really mean the words he said & he really loves everybody, yadda, yadda, yadda. Besides everyone knows libs can say whatever they want & get away with it, just turn on the news.

Your comrade in the VRWC (vast right wing conspiracy);

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Old 03-01-2010, 06:45 PM
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I sure do comrade. So between you & me that makes one.

Let me guess, despite your longing for a regime in which the government "assassinates" private citizens to take their wealth & redistribute it to those to which it rightfully belongs; you are one of those that called Bush "Hitler."

Oh, I know I'm taking it waaayyyy to serious & he didn't really mean the words he said & he really loves everybody, yadda, yadda, yadda. Besides everyone knows libs can say whatever they want & get away with it, just turn on the news.

Your comrade in the VRWC (vast right wing conspiracy);


Bryce919er
no i called that moron alfred e. newman. and give it a f#$'in rest already

SEE THE BOTTOM OF POST #20

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Old 03-01-2010, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fehren2800 View Post
Meh... The OEM levers on almost all the Japanese bikes are cheaply cast and barely finished/machined low quality aluminum. They are like $25 bux and I have had the same POS brake lever on my most ridden bike for 14 years with no signs of failure. It is awful shiny from being used.

They have even survived 2 crashes with some scuffing and a slight bend. I might go crazy and get a new one for $25 but then again, I could use that same $25 for a days worth of fuel for riding. :001_smile:
A+

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Old 03-01-2010, 09:19 PM
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what's crgs? will they help me defy gravity? add 10 hp to the bike? wheelie easier?


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Old 03-01-2010, 09:35 PM
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what's crgs? will they help me defy gravity? add 10 hp to the bike? wheelie easier?

They make mirrors that work really well, but don't add any HP.

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Old 03-02-2010, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fehren2800 View Post
Meh... The OEM levers on almost all the Japanese bikes are cheaply cast and barely finished/machined low quality aluminum. They are like $25 bux and I have had the same POS brake lever on my most ridden bike for 14 years with no signs of failure. It is awful shiny from being used.

They have even survived 2 crashes with some scuffing and a slight bend. I might go crazy and get a new one for $25 but then again, I could use that same $25 for a days worth of fuel for riding. :001_smile:
+1

Everyone get rid of your stock levers and replace them with $180 ones ASAP!! For $57 shipped, I'll order a set and tell you how the Chinese knock-offs look.

andrewebay1 is offline  
Old 03-02-2010, 11:00 AM
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here is way I look at it, if you can afford the price and are going to get a set of aftermarket levers, why not buy the one that is made in the US. after all that keep a few guy working here which in turn gives them the ability to spend money and may even patronize where you work that in turns saves your job. I don't want to get political here, but I don't think we can keep shipping good paying manufacturing jobs abroad and expect to have a healthy growing economy and a middle class.

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