Need help with this wiring, its all chinese to me - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 93 Old 04-26-2013, 12:41 PM Thread Starter
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Need help with this wiring, its all chinese to me

So I finally got all my parts (I think) for my projector retrofit, and I had planned on having this guy who works on bikes out of his garage to help me do it, but he took one look at it and politely told me he would pass on doing it for me. I was a little depressed.



ForumRunner_20130426_112958.jpg



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So I guess I'm gonna have a go at it, I've laid it all out and the only thing that really has me confused is this one section of wiring....

It appears to connect to the remaining wire coming off of both projectors, which does not appear on the diagram, (diagram shows 4 wires coming off of projector, but there are in fact 5) so on one end it connects to both projectors, At the other end it says "connect with the ballast input cathode" and on the other sticker it says "car width lamp, red is the black bear" :/

I'm not sure really what to make of that.

These projectors have the hid bulb, an angel eye, and a devil eye, which I think just colors the projector lens a bit.





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post #2 of 93 Old 04-26-2013, 12:53 PM Thread Starter
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If I can figure out what to do with that section of wiring, I then have to make sure that I am correctly hooking up to power, as far as I can tell, there are 5 connections I have to make...

1) power, where do I tap power? From the look of the positive connector, it appears that it wants me to connect to the battery?

2,3) both of the grounds for the ballasts....just ground to the frame?

4,5) tapping power for the angel eyes.....it says, " angel eyes connect the width-indicator lamps power" I take it to mean that it wants me to use the turn signals positive line? But then the angel eyes would blink wouldn't they? I don't think that is right....where to tap the power for those?

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post #3 of 93 Old 04-26-2013, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sytheii View Post
If I can figure out what to do with that section of wiring, I then have to make sure that I am correctly hooking up to power, as far as I can tell, there are 5 connections I have to make...

1) power, where do I tap power? From the look of the positive connector, it appears that it wants me to connect to the battery?

Generally yes. Its a good idea to have an inline fuse when tapping directly from the battery.

2,3) both of the grounds for the ballasts....just ground to the frame?

Yeah, anywhere on the frame will make for a good ground. You can use an existing ground point if its easy for you.

4,5) tapping power for the angel eyes.....it says, " angel eyes connect the width-indicator lamps power" I take it to mean that it wants me to use the turn signals positive line? But then the angel eyes would blink wouldn't they? I don't think that is right....where to tap the power for those?

A quick google search indicates you are right that width-indicator lamp means turn signals. The front turn signals typically are 3 wire, 1 is positive, 1 is ground, and 1 controls the flashing. You should be able to connect it to the positive wire. The whole point here is that the angel eyes need a constant 12v power source. If you have a better or easier place to tap into that is a constant 12v power source, you can.
.

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post #4 of 93 Old 04-26-2013, 01:31 PM
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^This

Also if I remember correctly, I watched one of the newer cars with stock halos use their turn signals and the halo turns off on the same side the turn signal starts flashing. Might be a certain way to run the wires to get the same effect.

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post #5 of 93 Old 04-26-2013, 01:50 PM
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Can you scan the wiring diagram/instructions to a pdf so I can zoom in and make edits to it?

I can help you out better with that info

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post #6 of 93 Old 04-26-2013, 02:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
.
At first I thought you just quoted me, but then I saw what you said,

1. There is an inline fuse, so I will tap the battery then.

2. As far as the turn signal wires go, can you identify the constant power wire from this pic of my new turn signal switch here?



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post #7 of 93 Old 04-26-2013, 02:32 PM
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No I can't, I'm sorry (I'm on campus, no access to manual). Do you have a multimeter? If not, you can pick one up for cheap, they're a great tool that will be used a lot throughout the tool's life. Well worth the $5-30 investment. Consider picking one up and you'll be able to identify which one is the positive 12v source in 10 seconds.

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post #8 of 93 Old 04-26-2013, 02:37 PM Thread Starter
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Here are some PDFs of the only documentation that comes with, as far as I can tell the only bit that is missing from the drawing is that one bit of wiring that I can't exactly figure out what to do with....



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post #9 of 93 Old 04-26-2013, 02:39 PM Thread Starter
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pdfs

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0bzqzjutte9qtpk/wholepage.pdf

I believe the section i have cropped is the diagram i need to be looking at.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/3ck5kow8oq1tst9/section.pdf

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post #10 of 93 Old 04-26-2013, 03:12 PM
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my next question is how do you want the angle eyes to operate? Constant on? blink only when the turn signals are on?


Or hell, even both. You can have them so that they are on all the time, and individually blink when your turn signals are on. (this option is more complicated and uses relays)

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post #11 of 93 Old 04-26-2013, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boogunoogun View Post
my next question is how do you want the angle eyes to operate? Constant on? blink only when the turn signals are on?

Or hell, even both. You can have them so that they are on all the time, and individually blink when your turn signals are on. (this option is more complicated and uses relays)
I just want them to be on all the time, I had planned on putting a toggle switch for the headlamps like ferris bueller did with his.

I suspect that that bit of wiring has something to do with the devil eye, and that it is used to power on both, but I am not entirely certain, again, that bit of wiring seems not to be in the diagram, or I am just poor at reading them.

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post #12 of 93 Old 04-26-2013, 04:31 PM
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I think I missed something, but is this on your bike or a car? If bike, is it on the 919?

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post #13 of 93 Old 04-26-2013, 04:40 PM Thread Starter
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On the 9er, inside my aztec duals



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post #14 of 93 Old 04-26-2013, 07:23 PM
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I hope you measured the depth light bucket to make sure it will actually fit
Also,
projector retrofit into gen1 and gen2 naked sv650 - Page 28 - Suzuki SV650 Forum: SV650, SV1000, Gladius Forums
Hope this helps

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post #15 of 93 Old 04-26-2013, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sytheii View Post
On the 9er, inside my aztec duals
The reason i asked is because i just went thru all wiring in the main harness and kind of know what is what.
I don't think you need to run all the way back to battery. On main harness Red/green stripe wire for the 12v constant and the white/green stripe wire for the 12v switched. Green wire is the ground. I think you could use those for this wiring.

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post #16 of 93 Old 04-26-2013, 07:56 PM
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A friend of mine modified his 929 with a kit like this and he actually has 2 switches. 1 for angel eyes and seconds for the projectors. This way you can turn angel eyes on even when the bike is off. Also u can run both at same time or one at a time...

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post #17 of 93 Old 04-28-2013, 08:41 AM
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Ok, so you have this cord assembly of wires. 1-5. How many cord assemblies do you have? One from each projector or just one?

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post #18 of 93 Old 04-28-2013, 09:36 AM
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I saw your pictures.




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post #19 of 93 Old 04-28-2013, 04:59 PM
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if it is just 1 cord assembly it looks like the two wires you have left go to each positive for each halo light. So you could attach them to a turn signal. (1 each) or just tap onto the positive wire for your headlight.

If you want them to turn on, stay on, and flash when the turn signal is going, now we are talking about relays.

It is just a matter of what you want to do. Try using alligator jumpers to test them

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post #20 of 93 Old 04-29-2013, 06:14 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abadacus View Post
I hope you measured the depth light bucket to make sure it will actually fit
Also,
projector retrofit into gen1 and gen2 naked sv650 - Page 28 - Suzuki SV650 Forum: SV650, SV1000, Gladius Forums
Hope this helps
I did a quick visual hold up each other, and there seems to be breathing room inside the Aztec bucket, I'm hoping. I really need to buy an old beater or get another bike so I can Futz with one bike while riding the other one.

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post #21 of 93 Old 04-29-2013, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpolunin View Post

The reason i asked is because i just went thru all wiring in the main harness and kind of know what is what.
I don't think you need to run all the way back to battery. On main harness Red/green stripe wire for the 12v constant and the white/green stripe wire for the 12v switched. Green wire is the ground. I think you could use those for this wiring.
Thank you for the info, visually, is this the harness that comes from the right side of the tank, through the little bendable clamp, heading up towards the forks n headlight area?

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post #22 of 93 Old 04-29-2013, 07:40 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpolunin View Post
A friend of mine modified his 929 with a kit like this and he actually has 2 switches. 1 for angel eyes and seconds for the projectors. This way you can turn angel eyes on even when the bike is off. Also u can run both at same time or one at a time...
I figure I can just splice in a toggle or toggles later, for the moment I just wanna get everything running with key switched on.

I've been waiting forever for this shieza and I've got my 2nd frame slider turn signals proto. done, too, just gotta do this things soze iz canz try demz out 2.

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post #23 of 93 Old 04-30-2013, 09:37 PM
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I'm going to be doing something very similar ie. a projector +hid retrofit with a toggle switch for the projector. just waiting for my parts to be shipped
looking forward to your progress and good luck :-)

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post #24 of 93 Old 04-30-2013, 09:37 PM Thread Starter
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After staring at the wiring diagram at the end of my manual for a solid hour, i finnaly sort of understand how the turn signals work on a stock 919 setup. Can someone who understand electricity explain to me exactly HOW that one wire, not the constant power source, or the ground, but the other wire, controls the flashing/blinking? This is what i was struggleing to understand.

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post #25 of 93 Old 04-30-2013, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sytheii View Post
After staring at the wiring diagram at the end of my manual for a solid hour, i finnaly sort of understand how the turn signals work on a stock 919 setup. Can someone who understand electricity explain to me exactly HOW that one wire, not the constant power source, or the ground, but the other wire, controls the flashing/blinking? This is what i was struggleing to understand.
Google thermal flasher.. easiest explanation

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post #26 of 93 Old 05-01-2013, 01:09 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyke1019 View Post

Google thermal flasher.. easiest explanation
Interesting....but I'm still confused.

I reread this thread...starting from Rob's diagram,

https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...html#post98567

cause I thought it would be cool to have the devil's eyes be constant, and then blink when the appropriate turn signal is in operation....but I am still confused about this damn bit of wiring!



When I try to understand how that one wire interrupts the constant 12 v power, to cause it to blink, this explanation seems better, but I'm still fuzzy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
Say wha? It works great as Rob drew out in the diagram. The running light is lower voltage than the turn signal light. The diode on the turn signal light allows for the increased voltage of the turn signal circuit when activated to increase/decrease power which affects the brightness of the LED in question.

Have the exact same setup on my Watsens right now and works great.
Although this guy doesn't like it.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by cychotic View Post
This circuit won't work very well. When the running light is on, the turn signal will not do anything to the LED because running light is already powering the LED.


Also, if you don't want to buy a LED flasher or use resistors, you can always hack the existing flasher. It is pretty simple. I have a write up:

How to hack flasher relay for LED signal lights
And his suggestion of a relay makes even more sense to me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cychotic View Post
Ok, instead of saying it doesn't work. I'll provide a better solution.

Reasons for not using a diode:

1. Limited current. A diode is a easy solution for LED. But it will probably be damaged if you use it with a regular filament bulb, unless you spec a beefy diode.
2. Extra power loss.
3. Turn signal may not be very noticeable.

My solution:

Use a relay! The running light is ON by default. When the signal turns on, it turns OFF the light. The only draw back is that the signal logic is now reversed. For signaling purpose, this is hardly a drawback. This is very similar to many car side markers that are also used as signal lights. This can be used in almost any dual filament signal setup.

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post #27 of 93 Old 05-01-2013, 01:12 PM Thread Starter
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I have successfully determined that the red wire is power....and the black is ground by using by handy new test battery.

But what in gods name is this fucking yellow wire for?


ForumRunner_20130501_121224.jpg



ForumRunner_20130501_121204.jpg

Power goes in via red, into the little box, inside is a board...and what looks like a resister, so it must be adjusting the power a bit for these red leds, then it sends power to one, comes back, sends power to the next, comes back, and then grounds on the black....WHAT IS YELLOW FOR ? sad face

I'd like to have them flash when signaling, but then I'd have to duplicate that little box, then do the diode trick, yes? Frustrating.

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post #28 of 93 Old 05-01-2013, 01:46 PM
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Are the Angel Eyes on? I only see the projectors on... Maybe the yellow wire is power for the Angel eyes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sytheii View Post
I have successfully determined that the red wire is power....and the black is ground by using by handy new test battery.

But what in gods name is this fucking yellow wire for?


Attachment 25358



Attachment 25357

Power goes in via red, into the little box, inside is a board...and what looks like a resister, so it must be adjusting the power a bit for these red leds, then it sends power to one, comes back, sends power to the next, comes back, and then grounds on the black....WHAT IS YELLOW FOR ? sad face

I'd like to have them flash when signaling, but then I'd have to duplicate that little box, then do the diode trick, yes? Frustrating.

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post #29 of 93 Old 05-01-2013, 01:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpolunin View Post
Are the Angel Eyes on? I only see the projectors on... Maybe the yellow wire is power for the Angel eyes?
That isn't the projector, that is just the devils eye that colors the projectors lens a bit. I haven't seen tested the hid projector bulb yet. Not sure if my little battery can handle it.

No angel eyes not tested in that pic, on different circuit. Here's pic of one angels eye on, then both devils and one angel. Keep in mind pic taken one handed resting on knee at weird angle while holding down contacts on battery Lol

I may just completely ignore the yellow wire as an ugly duckling and proceed with install.



ForumRunner_20130501_125528.jpg



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post #30 of 93 Old 05-01-2013, 02:27 PM
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If everything seems to work, ignore it... Every chart I look at of other kits, none of them have that yellow wire... just red and black...

Here is an example of another one like it. You can see the #4, #11 and #12 is same as yours but no yellow wire... Who knows, maybe it is for turn signal wire so your angel eyes or demon eyes blink as a turn signal...



Quote:
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I may just completely ignore the yellow wire as an ugly duckling and proceed with install.

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post #31 of 93 Old 05-01-2013, 02:38 PM
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Yes, so if you want them to come on on "Key ON" connect the red wire to white/green stripe wire for the 12v switched. Connect Black wire to Green wire for the ground. Now, if you want the Angel/Demon eyes to come on when bike is off... You need to connect the red wire to toggle switch and the toggle switch power to Red/green stripe wire for the 12v constant.

Quote:
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Thank you for the info, visually, is this the harness that comes from the right side of the tank, through the little bendable clamp, heading up towards the forks n headlight area?

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2005 Suzuki SV650 - traded
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2008 Aprilia Tuono 1000R - Sold
2008 Aprilia RSV1000R Track Only
2007 Honda CBR600RR - sold
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post #32 of 93 Old 05-01-2013, 02:47 PM
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A very basic blinker, is a bi-matallic strip. (2 pieces of different metals that touch) As current flows through, the metals heat up, and expand at different rates. This shuts the circuit off. As the metals cool down (since no current is flowing). They make contact again. Starting the whole process over.

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post #33 of 93 Old 05-01-2013, 03:10 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpolunin View Post
If everything seems to work, ignore it... Every chart I look at of other kits, none of them have that yellow wire... just red and black...

Here is an example of another one like it. You can see the #4, #11 and #12 is same as yours but no yellow wire... Who knows, maybe it is for turn signal wire so your angel eyes or demon eyes blink as a turn signal...
Difference between mine and that diagram is that the angel and devil eye in that setup appear to share the same igniters. My angel eyes each have their own igniter, but the devil eyes share a separate single ignitor. Question is why the extra wire on the single igniter.

So....I am thinking about this again....that diagram wants the main power for the ballasts to be at the battery as well.....and looking at the end for mower on mime, it looks like it wants me to do the same.

Stupid question, wouldn't connecting that there mean that the HIDs would be on all the time, regardless of whether the key was in or out or whatever? Or am I being stupid, and there is wiring elsewhere that prevents that unless the key is turned on,? Because I know the only things touching the battery right now are the main cable, and my alarm. Alarm is always powered, bike on or off, but my headlamps only come on when the key is turned on.....

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post #34 of 93 Old 05-01-2013, 03:14 PM Thread Starter
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Gonna use these two toggles from Radio shack, I will wire in wires for both up to my handlebars, and then join them together, cause I will be fabbing a cool little sheet metal box to hold them, with a handlebar clamp mount.

Will put them just to the right of clutch cable.

ForumRunner_20130501_141408.jpg

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post #35 of 93 Old 05-02-2013, 02:35 AM Thread Starter
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After 6 hrs of sitting on my curb sawing off parts and soldering like nincompoop, and deciphering the maze of wires already on the front of the bike, I got this far.

I predict the bike will look like a trauma victim for a few days.

Projectors are in their buckets , one slightly eskew, but it took me an hr to get it to be in without forcing so i jus said phucket. And wires are a'dangling.

I have connected power and ground for everything except the main harness for the HIDs and I am seriously wondering how I am going to fit everything.


I may decide to make a plate-like wire holder below the lower triple tree like I am pretty sure I saw somewhere on WT before, merged with another project's design to hold the wiring, and look more pretty.

ForumRunner_20130502_011657.jpg



ForumRunner_20130502_013000.jpg


I think this is my flasher relay from custom led, now I know where it is Lol. Though those look like resistors? Huh?

ForumRunner_20130502_013018.jpg


Cutting

ForumRunner_20130502_013153.jpg

Frog ring sealed using foam weatherstripping, imitating Ferris Bueller here, actually everywhere.




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Mangled exit hole, too small for AMP connector to ballast.

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Sleep now.

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post #36 of 93 Old 05-02-2013, 05:09 AM
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post #37 of 93 Old 05-02-2013, 11:35 AM
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Why the heck is the flasher relay in your headlight bucket? It should be under the seat

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post #38 of 93 Old 05-02-2013, 02:07 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
Why the heck is the flasher relay in your headlight bucket? It should be under the seat
Perhaps it ain't that. I didn't cut the tape up to investigate. Looks like resistors though..... I will prolly investigate later.

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post #39 of 93 Old 05-02-2013, 02:09 PM
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Perhaps it ain't that. I didn't cut the tape up to investigate. Looks like resistors though..... I will prolly investigate later.
If it's resistors for your indicators, that makes sense. However, if you have the LED flasher relay, you can cut out the resistors to make room for your wiring in the headlight bucket.

If no flasher relay, best to leave the resistors so you don't get the wonky flash rate.

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post #40 of 93 Old 05-02-2013, 02:48 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post

If it's resistors for your indicators, that makes sense. However, if you have the LED flasher relay, you can cut out the resistors to make room for your wiring in the headlight bucket.

If no flasher relay, best to leave the resistors so you don't get the wonky flash rate.
I'm inclined to not Futz with what's already in place. Hopefully I can fab something that will conceal organize everything.

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