Brake swap time!! ..question - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 23 Old 06-05-2017, 12:12 PM Thread Starter
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Brake swap time!! ..question

Picked up a pair of CBR954RR calipers, steel braided brake lines, master cylinder, clutch perch AND vortex levers for a whopping.. $75 dollars on eBay. Going to install them later this week

Does anybody know if the 954 brake lines will be long enough for the 919 or do I need to bleed the old lines and fit them on the 954 calipers and master cylinder?
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post #2 of 23 Old 06-05-2017, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon919 View Post
Picked up a pair of CBR954RR calipers, steel braided brake lines, master cylinder, clutch perch AND vortex levers for a whopping.. $75 dollars on eBay. Going to install them later this week

Does anybody know if the 954 brake lines will be long enough for the 919 or do I need to bleed the old lines and fit them on the 954 calipers and master cylinder?
Mock them up and eyeball things.
Who knows how 954 specific, if at all, the lines actually are.
My guess is that IF you have low bars that are fairly forward, like Renthal ULs for example, you may get away with it.
If you have stock bars, I'll be amazed if they fit.
Keep in mind you are losing at both ends, as the calipers mount higher on the 954 by virtue of the larger rotors.
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post #3 of 23 Old 06-05-2017, 12:54 PM
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No they won't, 929/954 have shorter forks and clip ons, probably 6" too short.
Everything else should be a bolt on, I have 954 calipers on mine

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post #4 of 23 Old 06-05-2017, 01:06 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by voodooridr View Post
No they won't, 929/954 have shorter forks and clip ons, probably 6" too short.
Everything else should be a bolt on, I have 954 calipers on mine

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Thank you! Now I'll just have to stop by the parts store and pick up some brake fluid and a bleeder

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post #5 of 23 Old 06-05-2017, 03:31 PM
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Thank you! Now I'll just have to stop by the parts store and pick up some brake fluid and a bleeder

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Be ready to end up with crush washers that sweat or weep a bit at the master cylinder connection, as the assumption is you will have to at least slightly reorient the lines there. If you end up with weepers, the only solution is to replace them. Some will tolerate some sweating. I don't, but have known some who do, be it from ignorance of how reactive brake fluid is, or simple avoidance of the remedy work.

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post #6 of 23 Old 06-05-2017, 03:41 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
Be ready to end up with crush washers that sweat or weep a bit at the master cylinder connection, as the assumption is you will have to at least slightly reorient the lines there. If you end up with weepers, the only solution is to replace them. Some will tolerate some sweating. I don't, but have known some who do, be it from ignorance of how reactive brake fluid is, or simple avoidance of the remedy work.
What would I do to remedy this on the install? Just new crush washers or is there more to it? I've never messed around with brakes except for replacing pads

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post #7 of 23 Old 06-05-2017, 03:50 PM
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Crush washers are designed to be single use, they should be pretty cheap at a local Honda dealer.

BTW, other than the rotors, what part of this is an upgrade? The calipers look the same, you can't use the SS lines because they are too short, so it's the MC that's improved?

It sounds like you didn't get the rotors, so what did you gain?

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post #8 of 23 Old 06-05-2017, 04:24 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
Crush washers are designed to be single use, they should be pretty cheap at a local Honda dealer.

BTW, other than the rotors, what part of this is an upgrade? The calipers look the same, you can't use the SS lines because they are too short, so it's the MC that's improved?

It sounds like you didn't get the rotors, so what did you gain?
From what I understand a greater contact area on the pads (about 10% more if I remember correctly) is what I'll gain from the swap. Also, my 919 MC needed to be rebuilt and they came with some levers so I couldn't pass up the deal

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post #9 of 23 Old 06-05-2017, 05:13 PM
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I'm running 954 calipers with a GSXR radial master. I ordered a set of 2" plus spiegler lines from LDH when I did the swap last summer. My issue was the location of the banjo bolt on the master required a longer line. Renthal UL bars helped the situation but I still needed longer lines. By longer lines I mean longer than the dual C&G lines for the 919. The turn around time on the brake lines was VERY quick for a custom made line.



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post #10 of 23 Old 06-05-2017, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Brandon919 View Post
What would I do to remedy this on the install? Just new crush washers or is there more to it? I've never messed around with brakes except for replacing pads

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New crush washers, yes.

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post #11 of 23 Old 06-05-2017, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon919 View Post
From what I understand a greater contact area on the pads (about 10% more if I remember correctly) is what I'll gain from the swap. Also, my 919 MC needed to be rebuilt and they came with some levers so I couldn't pass up the deal

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The F4i calipers offer about 10 % more pad area.
The 954s could well be very similar to that, and just arched slightly differently re the larger rotor contact area diameters of the 954 rotors.
Certainly an upgrade in terms of efffective braking power.
Pad choice and add or detract.

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post #12 of 23 Old 06-05-2017, 06:14 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ray.beard View Post
I'm running 954 calipers with a GSXR radial master. I ordered a set of 2" plus spiegler lines from LDH when I did the swap last summer. My issue was the location of the banjo bolt on the master required a longer line. Renthal UL bars helped the situation but I still needed longer lines. By longer lines I mean longer than the dual C&G lines for the 919. The turn around time on the brake lines was VERY quick for a custom made line.



That's a nice setup! I'm going to do the braided lines later on down the road when I have the funds, maybe I'll try to sell the 954 braided lines to fund 919 ones 😀

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post #13 of 23 Old 06-05-2017, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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So I couldn't wait to throw the brakes on so after work I got all the supplies I would need (brake bleeder, crush washer and brake fluid) and put them on.. after I watched a couple tutorials on bleeding brakes of course.

The install was much easier than I had anticipated and everything fit very well. I did have to mess around with the 954 resiviour mount to get to sit straight up and out of the way and I might have to shim the calipers but I'll save that till after the road test. Anyways, here are some pics!

Last few are side by sides of the 919 and 954 calipers (left/top -919 right/bottom 954)

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post #14 of 23 Old 06-07-2017, 05:11 AM
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I've got those calipers, and they REALLY work for me - hope yours turn out the same.
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post #15 of 23 Old 06-07-2017, 12:33 PM
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What year 954? Also is it really a direct bolt on (minus the longer lines issue)?

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post #16 of 23 Old 06-07-2017, 03:16 PM Thread Starter
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What year 954? Also is it really a direct bolt on (minus the longer lines issue)?
Not sure what year the set I got came off of but from what I understand all year model 954 and 929 brakes will fit, and yes it really was a direct bolt on. I had to use the 919 lines and had to mess with the fluid resivour mount a little but that's it, I'll make another update on wether or not I have to shim the calipers after I take it on a road test but it's been raining non stop here the last couple days -_-

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post #17 of 23 Old 06-07-2017, 04:37 PM
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929 and 954 have different piston sizes, make sure to use the proper master cylinder

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post #18 of 23 Old 06-07-2017, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Brandon919 View Post
Not sure what year the set I got came off of but from what I understand all year model 954 and 929 brakes will fit, and yes it really was a direct bolt on. I had to use the 919 lines and had to mess with the fluid resivour mount a little but that's it, I'll make another update on wether or not I have to shim the calipers after I take it on a road test but it's been raining non stop here the last couple days -_-

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I say thank you, my wallet and Mercedes Fund say damn you. Another thing I may have to do. The good news is that as least I can sell my other calipers. I would hate to have 2 extra sets littering my garage.

Is the braking improved that much? Knowing me, I would but the calipers and MC, but also a rebuild kit for both so that I know the seals are good and fresh. So, even if I got a set for $100 on flee bay, it would quickly turn into a $2-300 project. I would want a different lever too. You know, cause why not.... lol

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post #19 of 23 Old 06-08-2017, 03:13 AM
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My braking is WAAY better, but my stock equipment might have been off, so who knows. [Rob T talks about howling the front tyre with the stock set-up - out of the question for my bike with std brakes.]

My calipers [actually from a 600RR donor, but the same specs as for those above] are being pushed by a GSX-R 19mm m/c, so I have lots of grunt.

Time, patience, the Search function and good reading skills can be your friends here...everything I did was based on posts already made by Generous Knowledge Sharers

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post #20 of 23 Old 06-08-2017, 03:53 AM
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I say thank you, my wallet and Mercedes Fund say damn you. Another thing I may have to do. The good news is that as least I can sell my other calipers. I would hate to have 2 extra sets littering my garage.

Is the braking improved that much? Knowing me, I would but the calipers and MC, but also a rebuild kit for both so that I know the seals are good and fresh. So, even if I got a set for $100 on flee bay, it would quickly turn into a $2-300 project. I would want a different lever too. You know, cause why not.... lol
LOL! I bought parts to rebuild my OEM calipers. I then purchased the 954 calipers and again bought parts. Luckily some of the parts are the same, the large seals on the 919 caliper are the same as the small seals in the 954 calipers. I used an ultrasonic cleaner to clean up the hardware that I was thinking about replacing as well. My motorcycle is for enjoyment so I try not to remember what anything costs, but I'm sure your cost assessment is right in line with what I spent.

The braking is far improved over the stock front brakes, I'm using a radial master as well.

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post #21 of 23 Old 06-08-2017, 05:29 AM
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LOL! I bought parts to rebuild my OEM calipers. I then purchased the 954 calipers and again bought parts. Luckily some of the parts are the same, the large seals on the 919 caliper are the same as the small seals in the 954 calipers. I used an ultrasonic cleaner to clean up the hardware that I was thinking about replacing as well. My motorcycle is for enjoyment so I try not to remember what anything costs, but I'm sure your cost assessment is right in line with what I spent.



The braking is far improved over the stock front brakes, I'm using a radial master as well.


Thanks Ray. Its going on the list. Damnit. I mean YAAAAY!!!!


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post #22 of 23 Old 06-08-2017, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K1w1Boy View Post
My braking is WAAY better, but my stock equipment might have been off, so who knows. [Rob T talks about howling the front tyre with the stock set-up - out of the question for my bike with std brakes.]
This is surprising to me. With stock everything minus stainless lines I can easily either howl the front tire or do a stoppy depending on how I apply the brakes... Wonder what the difference might be... I've had more than one friend ride my 919 as an example of really good brakes after I rode their bike and tried to explain to them how bad their brakes were (usually just needed new pads or fluid but all thought they were fine) and I race a GSXR 750 with a brembo master, so it's not like I don't know what good brakes feel like...

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post #23 of 23 Old 06-10-2017, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
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This is surprising to me. With stock everything minus stainless lines I can easily either howl the front tire or do a stoppy depending on how I apply the brakes... Wonder what the difference might be... I've had more than one friend ride my 919 as an example of really good brakes after I rode their bike and tried to explain to them how bad their brakes were (usually just needed new pads or fluid but all thought they were fine) and I race a GSXR 750 with a brembo master, so it's not like I don't know what good brakes feel like...
+1. Did 5 or 6 track days with OEM brakes/pads and stainless lines. Never once felt concerned about my braking power. As several members can attest to, I rode in the intermediate mid group and liked to brake late on several turns. OEM brakes/pads served me very well.

Only had an issue one track day where it was over 100 out and I managed to not miss any sessions. My brakes were fading in the afternoon sessions.

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