2017-2018 Winter Build Thread - Page 6 - Wrist Twisters
 101Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #201 of 223 Old 03-14-2018, 12:43 PM Thread Starter
Discen
 
ahung12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 210
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage
Went out this morning at 10am, got to the end of the driveway and met Mr. Ice. First the front wheel wobbled as I pulled onto the street and then the back tire did a little jig. NOPENOPENOPENOPENOPENOPE. Turned it right around and she's been chilling in the garage since. Will go out again in a few minutes, supposedly its 45, just hope all ice is gone at this point.

Al
ahung12 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #202 of 223 Old 03-14-2018, 03:59 PM Thread Starter
Discen
 
ahung12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 210
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage
So it turns out I had the Moriwaki map loaded first. I spent about 30 minutes in total riding on it, didn't have much time and was just running some errands. Nothing changed with the low RPM/0 throttle stuttering and I don't know if its just in my head, but when I go to blip the throttle on downshifts I don't seem to get the same amount of revs that I used to. I only really noticed this towards the end of my ride. It seems like this would be a throttle response issue, not fueling am I right? I didn't make any changes to the throttle cable slack since I last rode it.

I uploaded the Pvster Erion map but only got a few minutes on it before calling it a day. I'll spend more time hopefully tomorrow, but I do notice an improvement with the low RPM/0 throttle stuttering. Its still there a bit though. I also noticed that while slowly increasing RPM from idle to about 2500 with the bike in neutral, it stumbles. Not terribly but its noticeable.

Al
ahung12 is offline  
post #203 of 223 Old 03-14-2018, 04:52 PM
919 Rider
 
Islandboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Flinders island
Posts: 1,987
Rep Power: 1
 
That's pretty much what I found with those two maps using Delkevic exhausts. The Pvster erion map works well for me now but I'm no longer running Delkevic end cans and I opened up the intake greatly, K&N filter also. The cans are crazy open and all this has caused a generally lean condition. The Pvster erion map is quite rich in places and has definitely richened things up. As a side not I had crap results using a K&N filter until I put on wide open end cans, opened up intake and switched to Pvster's erion map.
When using the Delks and OEM air filter I found that stutter down low to be a too rich condition. Just be using the low button on the unit I could lean it out and mostly remove that stutter. If you want to try a lean map check out Pvster sato map. Sato gen II. My bike ran very well with this map. Very little stutter down low. But I felt it got hot quick if just crawling about. The Yoshi map felt like a good compromise.
I'm sure you will find a map that is close to ideal for your setup.
Now this next bit isn't something I recommend since I'm sure things can be made worse if not done accurately. I simply could not completely remove a bad stutter down low, like at no or very little throttle input.
Starter valve synchronization. My bike is a 2002 model and had sat for over 10yrs in some dudes shed, stolen and unused, before I brought it. I had read about starter valve synchronization and thought perhaps mine was off. I had completely stripped the bike down and thought something might have gotten out of wack. I brought a carbtune gauge carried out the procedure and completely removed that stutter. Very smooth down low. But I think this is not your problem and is just off fueling. More food for thought.
Keep switching maps until you get close and the tinker. I would usually run a map for as long as a tank or two of fuel just to get a good "feel" for it.
Keep us posted.

Islandboy is offline  
 
post #204 of 223 Old 03-14-2018, 05:16 PM Thread Starter
Discen
 
ahung12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 210
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage
Yeah I don't think I've spent enough time on either map to really get a good idea. Just wanted to see if there were any glaring differences, and to see what exactly the Pvster Erion maps did for the low-rpm stutter. I suppose I'll go back to the Moriwaki map and get some more seat time with it, the same for others before I start using the on-unit buttons for fine tuning of any maps.

edit: I locked up the rear for the first time on the road today, coming to a stop behind a few cars at a light. Had a great amount of distance between the car in front but felt I was coming up faster than I wanted, and recalling a recent convo I had with Bartsitarski about how useless the rear brake often feels, I gave it the business. I suspect the coldish road surface contributed to the slide, but the rear came around a few degrees on me and it was a pretty unnerving experience. Part of the reason I didn't want to push my luck any further after I loaded the second map.

Al
ahung12 is offline  
post #205 of 223 Old 03-14-2018, 06:27 PM
919 Rider
 
Islandboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Flinders island
Posts: 1,987
Rep Power: 1
 
The only time I've ever really had a bad accident on a road bike was because I'd locked up the rear brake and lost control because of that.
I wouldn't use those pc111usb buttons to fine tune the fueling. I just meant use the buttons to get a rough idea of how removing or adding fuel effects a map you like at low throttle values.
Although having said that I ran my bike for ages on the Yoshi map with the low button value down several bars. After a bit I did bust out the laptop for fine tuning. I may have copy/paste Pvster sato's low values onto the Yoshi map at one point. I've read lots of posts where guys add two bars here and minus 3 bars there but it all seemed a bit hit or miss.

Islandboy is offline  
post #206 of 223 Old 03-14-2018, 06:51 PM
Milites Gregarius
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 101
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage
ahung,

I likely know the least about maps on this entire site but I have been playing with mine as well. I am sure you know when using the buttons you adjust an entire portion of the map? At least that is what I understand?? Also the good thing about the PC 3 is you can print your existing map. I know this is old fashion but it helps to have a cheat sheet if you start making changes cell by cell. I was experimenting with this at the track last week and it is pretty quick and easy if you have a laptop with good battery life. In any case, using the laptop gives you the ability to make changes to a precise TP setting at a given RPM range. What you are describing sounds like you just need to clean up some area's in TP 1&2 from idle up to maybe 3K. This may get the stumble you are talking about taken care of. Any mid or high end tuning can be done within reason but you have to have a way to measure performance if you are trying to maximize your torque and HP. But making the bike idle, accelerate and run smooth can still be done by the seat of the pants if your patient.

Most importantly, wait until that ice clears, find a good location and be careful.

Well that's my 2 cents worth on a subject that I am pretty new at.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Fuel map.jpg (95.6 KB, 8 views)

Mark61 is offline  
post #207 of 223 Old 03-15-2018, 01:59 PM Thread Starter
Discen
 
ahung12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 210
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage
Thanks for clarifying Islandboy. Good thing I didn't jump the gun and start button-pressing!

Mark61: Yes I went ahead and exported the three maps I'll be experimenting with (along with stock) to an Excel spreadsheet so I can have it open in another window if the PC software is running. I'll definitely be taking it very carefully, one cell at a time if the time comes that I'm comfortable enough with a map that I think I'll be able to feel changes. I'm not aiming to score any performance gains out of this though, just as you said smooth out that low-rpm stumble which is more of an annoyance to me than anything else. That said, if the day comes when I have a few hundred dollars burning a hole in my pocket and I can find a trusted local tuner, I would be interested to see what can be eeked out of this basic setup. I will regret not having done a baseline dyno though.

Al
ahung12 is offline  
post #208 of 223 Old 03-16-2018, 05:37 PM
McTavish
 
mcromo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,496
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark61 View Post
ahung,

I likely know the least about maps on this entire site but I have been playing with mine as well.
LoL, and my guess is that if you view maps as nothing more than a fuel delivery curve adjustment ala carb's, it will be a cinch to grasp in a hurry.
Instead of changing needle heights and jets etc etc, the map just changes the injectors' pulse width (duration).

mcromo44 is offline  
post #209 of 223 Old 03-17-2018, 03:48 PM
Milites Gregarius
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Jamaica, NY
Posts: 139
Rep Power: 1
 
Well my pipes came in yesterday (I didnít get the y pipe version though, wasnít too confident of removing the rear shock and stuff)



The kit didnít come with those spacer/drop downs like yours, ahung, and theyíre way too close in on the cowl, in my opinion. I emailed Delkevic today to see if they meant to send the spacers or not. Maybe Iíll have to find something to space them though. Anyone else with delks see this issue?





I also did the 520 17/44 conversion.

When I took the cowl off at the start, one of my turn signal cables broke where the PO just did a twisted cable/electrical tape splice.

I was going to use this to get rid of that huge fender, but when I went to offer it up, it seemed too heavy for the stock mounts, so I ended up ordering a custom led kit and will make a bracket like you, but I might get a smoked or clear lens for it.



I still have a few bits to get done. Cleaning up POs wiring being one of them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

steev is offline  
post #210 of 223 Old 03-17-2018, 04:43 PM
919 Rider
 
Islandboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Flinders island
Posts: 1,987
Rep Power: 1
 
Hey steev. My Delks came with a spacer. When I added new cans I made a drop down hanger out of a length of aluminum. This allowed me to shift the hanger bracket further towards the center of the can. More even weight distribution. First pic shows the spacer that came with the Delks.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20171209_175636-1_1521329921877.jpg (177.0 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg 20170927_115709-1-1_1521330061109.jpg (98.5 KB, 7 views)
steev likes this.

Islandboy is offline  
post #211 of 223 Old 03-17-2018, 05:39 PM
Milites Gregarius
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Jamaica, NY
Posts: 139
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
Hey steev. My Delks came with a spacer. When I added new cans I made a drop down hanger out of a length of aluminum. This allowed me to shift the hanger bracket further towards the center of the can. More even weight distribution. First pic shows the spacer that came with the Delks.


Nice! Iíll get some bits to get this done, I think Iíll be a bit happier with them then. Iíll also look through the box from delkevic to see if I missed the spacers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

steev is offline  
post #212 of 223 Old 03-17-2018, 07:43 PM Thread Starter
Discen
 
ahung12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 210
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage
Steev that fender eliminator looks SWEET.

As you're getting that spacer issue sorted out, definitely take the opportunity to follow Nealio's suggestion in post #56 in this thread if you haven't already addressed it. That is to make sure there's a spacer putting some distance between the two ends of the canister to prevent undue stress on those bends especially it seems the sharp outside one, that could cause them to tear. In my case, I used the distancing bracket as the spacer.

Al
ahung12 is offline  
post #213 of 223 Old 03-17-2018, 09:42 PM
919 Rider
 
Islandboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Flinders island
Posts: 1,987
Rep Power: 1
 
I didn't put a spacer between the hanger bracket ends but I could see how that broken bracket could happen as it was very tight. I put that spacer between bracket a mount point on bike to get pipes away bike a bit.
I would suggest two spacers. One between bracket and mount point and another between bracket ends. Make sure the spacer between ends is only wide enough to take stress off bracket ends. You want that bracket to tighten up around your cans for a good grip.
I had the longer version and was so concerned with the can weight hanging of that bracket I mounted a second bracket to share the weight. Might explain why my bracket didn't break. I'm thinking of cutting my Delks down and putting them back on the bike. If I do I will find a way to shift that hanging bracket more towards the centre of the can by using an extension.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20170113_111902-1-1_1521347809302.jpg (131.1 KB, 8 views)

Islandboy is offline  
post #214 of 223 Old 03-18-2018, 06:33 AM
Tesserarius
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 620
Rep Power: 1
 
Looking good Steev.

That swing arm need help, tho. And the clutch cove comes off real easily fro repainting. Just 3 screws, no oil or anything behind it. Cool old bike, tho.

You guys should rejoice that your 919s are fuel injected, rather than carbureted. I've been messing with my son's old 99 900RR, off and on for the last 6 months. I have one last little bit of off/on stumble, that I just can't make go away. <That only happens when you're doing something you shouldn't be doing any way. Josh's old 900RR has a full Akropovic system, which I blame for the slight stumble. But I also credit the Akro for helping to make that bike the screamer, that it is. I've jetted that thing richer, then leaner. Stumble still there. Then I started modifying the air box. I've made all my progress modding the airbox. I can make the bike smooth, but at the sacrifice of power. That old RR has attitude, and personality. I'll give it that.
steev likes this.

Sniper-x is offline  
post #215 of 223 Old 03-18-2018, 07:13 AM
Milites Gregarius
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Jamaica, NY
Posts: 139
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper-x View Post
Looking good Steev.

That swing arm need help, tho. And the clutch cove comes off real easily fro repainting. Just 3 screws, no oil or anything behind it. Cool old bike, tho.

You guys should rejoice that your 919s are fuel injected, rather than carbureted. I've been messing with my son's old 99 900RR, off and on for the last 6 months. I have one last little bit of off/on stumble, that I just can't make go away. <That only happens when you're doing something you shouldn't be doing any way. Josh's old 900RR has a full Akropovic system, which I blame for the slight stumble. But I also credit the Akro for helping to make that bike the screamer, that it is. I've jetted that thing richer, then leaner. Stumble still there. Then I started modifying the air box. I've made all my progress modding the airbox. I can make the bike smooth, but at the sacrifice of power. That old RR has attitude, and personality. I'll give it that.


Oh definitely! Iím going to try getting all the crap off the swingarm next time and clean it up. I didnít know that I could take the clutch cover off and not lose any oil! Iíll give that a go too, as Iíd like to tidy that up a bit.

Also, islandboy, do you happen to remember the sizes of the hardware you used? I went to my local Home Depot today and their metric nuts and bolts cabinet was a complete and total mess!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

steev is offline  
post #216 of 223 Old 03-18-2018, 08:11 AM Thread Starter
Discen
 
ahung12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 210
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage
Odd thing happened yesterday. Had been riding for about 30 minutes with no issue (back on the Moriwaki map for long term testing), and then let it idle for about 2 minutes. As soon as I got going again, I immediately noticed the engine stumbling at all RPM's. I'd give it steady throttle, and it'd sputter and stumble but still accelerate. I went up to about 3.5k rpm in 1st through 3rd to find the nearest parking lot to pull her into.

Sitting in the parking lot and idling in neutral, I noticed the stumble was there too. I shut everything down, let her sit for about a minute and restarted. Stumble gone, and was fine for the rest of the day. I know its not a lot to go on, I've never experienced this before, and the only thing that changed between this ride and my previous was a new tank of gas. Any thoughts on what the cause might be?

Al
ahung12 is offline  
post #217 of 223 Old 03-18-2018, 04:04 PM
919 Rider
 
Islandboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Flinders island
Posts: 1,987
Rep Power: 1
 
Sniper. I would also happily sacrifice a little power for a smoother running bike. My bike is a street machine not a racer. It's also my first fuel injected bike and I luv it. 5 to 10 mins with a lap top. Done.

steev. I'm pretty sure the main mount bolt is the OEM bolt, flange M8◊50. The aluminium spacer must be thick walled. I forget what size the smaller bracket clamp bolt was. The extension hanger is made out of aluminum angle so it wouldn't bend.

ahung. Sounds like a loose coil or plug lead. Ground under tank clean? Also a failing FPR can cause similar problems you are describing. Check your fuel return line for crimping. Make sure you seat isn't pressing onto the power commander. Make sure your power commander connections are good and solid. I still think it could be loose coil or plug leads. The plug leads just screw in and can loose connection. And those small coil feed wires can come a bit loose. Check the spade connectors on them. If it happens again carefully check your header pipes to see if any are cooler than the others. This might help you narrow it down.

Islandboy is offline  
post #218 of 223 Old 03-18-2018, 10:47 PM
919 Rider
 
Islandboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Flinders island
Posts: 1,987
Rep Power: 1
 
steev. I found the Delkevic hanger bracket extensions today and took a pic. They are stainless. One end mounts to the bike mount point with spacer and OEM bolt. Other end is bolted and clamped to can bracket with an allen key socket bolt and lock nut. My cans are oval.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20180319_163952-1_1521438125147.jpg (121.9 KB, 9 views)
steev likes this.

Islandboy is offline  
post #219 of 223 Old 03-19-2018, 07:51 AM Thread Starter
Discen
 
ahung12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 210
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
Sniper. I would also happily sacrifice a little power for a smoother running bike. My bike is a street machine not a racer. It's also my first fuel injected bike and I luv it. 5 to 10 mins with a lap top. Done.

steev. I'm pretty sure the main mount bolt is the OEM bolt, flange M8◊50. The aluminium spacer must be thick walled. I forget what size the smaller bracket clamp bolt was. The extension hanger is made out of aluminum angle so it wouldn't bend.

ahung. Sounds like a loose coil or plug lead. Ground under tank clean? Also a failing FPR can cause similar problems you are describing. Check your fuel return line for crimping. Make sure you seat isn't pressing onto the power commander. Make sure your power commander connections are good and solid. I still think it could be loose coil or plug leads. The plug leads just screw in and can loose connection. And those small coil feed wires can come a bit loose. Check the spade connectors on them. If it happens again carefully check your header pipes to see if any are cooler than the others. This might help you narrow it down.
Awesome thanks Islandboy, I'll check those things.

Al
ahung12 is offline  
post #220 of 223 Old 03-23-2018, 12:21 PM
The Cripple
 
Pvster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 8,743
Rep Power: 1
 
A hung, if you want max power on an open race map, use my enrion map. The map is based on LDH's map as a baseline and dyno from there.

If you want max smoothness via the a/f ratio throughout the fueling curve down low and max power at 90%+ throttle, use my Sato map. The Sato map is based on LDH's map as a baseline and focuses especially on low rpm and low throttle openings. I only lost 1.5-2 hp at the top end but what I gained on the low end and mid range was beautiful.

Every time you switch a map, resync your throttle with the pc3. It removes any anomalies with the throttle.

The problem you describe sounds like either a vacuum leak or the FPR failing.

Pvster is offline  
post #221 of 223 Old 03-23-2018, 02:00 PM
919 Rider
 
Islandboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Flinders island
Posts: 1,987
Rep Power: 1
 
I get great results using Pvster's maps. Someone did a good tune.
My 2 cents.

Islandboy is offline  
post #222 of 223 Old 03-30-2018, 02:04 PM
Milites Gregarius
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Jamaica, NY
Posts: 139
Rep Power: 1
 
Islandboy, great news! Delkevic sent me the brackets, nuts, bolts and spacers for nothing. I also picked up a clear lens and a CustomLED integrated taillight. Next Saturday Iíll be going back to the shop, fixing one of their computers and should get everything all set to ride.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

steev is offline  
post #223 of 223 Old 03-30-2018, 02:45 PM
919 Rider
 
Islandboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Flinders island
Posts: 1,987
Rep Power: 1
 
That's great Delkevic sorted that out for ya steve. Keep us posted.
Now, I wonder how ahung is going?

Islandboy is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wrist Twisters forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome