The Dragon strikes again! - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 30 Old 07-01-2008, 05:16 AM Thread Starter
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The Dragon strikes again!

These pics from Deals Gap tell it all. Thanks to PJ and Paige from PJ's parts for these photos.





From the crash scene (taken the next morning).

The approach --


The crime --


The getaway --

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post #2 of 30 Old 07-01-2008, 05:38 AM
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looky at that. Panic'd and locked up the back brake.

+ $5

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post #3 of 30 Old 07-01-2008, 05:33 PM
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OUCH!
that tree is scary!

Four wheels move the body ... two wheels move the soul.
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post #4 of 30 Old 07-01-2008, 06:10 PM
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Is this a personal horror story or a friends?

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post #5 of 30 Old 07-01-2008, 06:19 PM
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How did the rider do? Not expecting much from the tree photo...

Someone will "repair" that bike, bribe DMV to undo the salvaged title and sell it online with this ad "never raced or crashed"

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post #6 of 30 Old 07-01-2008, 07:04 PM
 
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ouch... hope rider is ok?!

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post #7 of 30 Old 07-08-2008, 04:22 AM
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How 'bout this one?
Follow the leader or oil on the road?

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post #8 of 30 Old 07-09-2008, 05:17 AM
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The sooner you learn to ride without a back brake, the better.

The Dragon used to be some fun years ago, but I won't go there anymore. Pics like that are why. What if you'd have been coming the other way when "Back Brake Boy" decided to do his thing?

Someone needs to clean that tree up and throw all that junk away. That is just good incentive for the governer of TN to send even more Law Enforcement down there.

Squids, money and internet pics have ruined the Dragon.

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post #9 of 30 Old 07-09-2008, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
The sooner you learn to ride without a back brake, the better.
The sooner you learn to ride with both brakes properly, the better.

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post #10 of 30 Old 07-09-2008, 02:37 PM
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Using the back brake just encourages bad habits. There's nothing back there. New/ inexperenced riders get into a tight spot, and go into "car driver" mode. Death grip the "wheel" and stab the foot brake. Then go straight. Forget about that back brake from the start. False sence of security.

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post #11 of 30 Old 07-09-2008, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
Using the back brake just encourages bad habits. There's nothing back there. New/ inexperenced riders get into a tight spot, and go into "car driver" mode. Death grip the "wheel" and stab the foot brake. Then go straight. Forget about that back brake from the start. False sence of security.
The rear brake is very effective when used properly.
A new rider should not focus on the rear as the rider needs to properly use the front on a sport bike or other front bias bike.
However, the rear brake is an excellent tool at controlling the bike in a lean. It can easily keep the rear in line and take some of the stress off the front tire allowing you to make the corner or miss the obstacle that is in your way.

The rear is more finesse than the front and in past instances I have said the same thing you said. Actually, most beginner/intermediate riders at the track agree whole heartedly. But if you think the rear is worthless, go talk to the expert guys. Go talk to the track instructors.

Learn to use what you have properly, and things work great.

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post #12 of 30 Old 07-09-2008, 03:06 PM
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Sniper, you made a comment about the Dragon being ruined.
I agree... actually, the Dragon was ruined years ago.

I have not had any urge to go to a place where crashing is celebrated by a bike Crash Tree and braggin you got "bit" on the internet.

I have not had any urge to ride in a place that is documented for speed traps and any other moving violation.

I have no desire to go where bikers hang out in large groups (unless it is the race track).

There are so many untapped roads on the map. Just look at a map and find one. Go explore while having fun riding.

Simpson and I found the most fun road i have ever ridden. We found it because his 919 needed a gas stop. We just happen to turn onto it.

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post #13 of 30 Old 07-09-2008, 07:45 PM
 
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i want a thumb brake... that is all

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post #14 of 30 Old 07-09-2008, 09:39 PM
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Using the rear brake to control the bike in a lean is completely new to me. The rear brake is the absolutly the last thing I would consider touching in mid corner. Nope. Aint going for it.

One of the first thing the instructors and experts at the last track day I did said, was not to touch the rear brake unless you're in the grass.

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post #15 of 30 Old 07-09-2008, 10:21 PM
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Did the Dragon on my ZRX 1100 in '04. Did it again in '07 with my Mazda 3 wagon. (front tires are gone after 1 year and 20k yikes). Will do it again with th 919. That said, the Cherohala Skyway is just off the Dragon near Robinsville and runs to Telico Plains. 40 plus miles of the best high speed twisties I have ever seen. Several thousand foot drops and no cops. Jerks have ruined the Dragon, but if you make your run on a weekday in the early evening it's all good.

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post #16 of 30 Old 07-10-2008, 06:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
Using the rear brake to control the bike in a lean is completely new to me. The rear brake is the absolutly the last thing I would consider touching in mid corner. Nope. Aint going for it.

One of the first thing the instructors and experts at the last track day I did said, was not to touch the rear brake unless you're in the grass.
as he said, a NEW rider should not focus on it. but yes, it will control you and tighten up a line mid-corner when used properly. it is difficult to do in race boots, yes, but not impossible.

and he's not trying to pull anything on you and get you to crash. if you're not comfortable with the concept, simply don't do it. but when you're making that lake braking inside pass you can use it to hold a tight line and not push the other guy off the track

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post #17 of 30 Old 07-10-2008, 08:27 AM
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All that is over my head. I'm just not that good.

I have often wondered why more bikes don't come out with linked brakes.

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post #18 of 30 Old 07-10-2008, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristen View Post
How 'bout this one?
Follow the leader or oil on the road?

I believe it was oil on the road. It took out a couple of more bike before it got cleaned up

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post #19 of 30 Old 07-10-2008, 01:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
All that is over my head. I'm just not that good.

I have often wondered why more bikes don't come out with linked brakes.
because of the lack of independent control. personally on the track, on the brakes going INTO a turn i won't touch the back because it is already so light that i don't want it to lock up. i would guess that's what the instructors were saying.

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post #20 of 30 Old 07-11-2008, 05:59 AM
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I'll accurise my previous statement.

I don't see why more Harleys, Gold Wings, sport tourers, and cruisers don't have linked brakes. Sportbikes are just fine as are.

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post #21 of 30 Old 07-11-2008, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
Using the rear brake to control the bike in a lean is completely new to me. The rear brake is the absolutly the last thing I would consider touching in mid corner. Nope. Aint going for it.

One of the first thing the instructors and experts at the last track day I did said, was not to touch the rear brake unless you're in the grass.
It depends on the situation and the bike. Just for an example, the KLR LOVES for me to use the rear brake. I mean stomp on it and use it at will. I regularly use it to correct a line in mid-turn on and off-road.

On the track bike it is not as necessary. Especially when weight bias and transfer moves most of the braking to the front of the bike. It can still be used, just not as liberally and only when necessary. The rear brake can tighten up a line very quickly if you are running a bit wide and need to enter a turn a little earlier.

It's all in the correct application of the right tool. Learning how to properly use the tools you have available should be the goal of anyone with a passion.

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post #22 of 30 Old 07-11-2008, 06:27 AM
 
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actually i believe the GW and i know the ST1300 have linked brakes. as well as the VTX1800. i think it's more a honda thing

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post #23 of 30 Old 07-11-2008, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hondaf4iguy View Post
The sooner you learn to ride with both brakes properly, the better.
thank you, i was just about to say...

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post #24 of 30 Old 07-11-2008, 11:30 AM
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I understand in theory what you're saying. Sounds very advanced.

I've read a couple of books and can't remember seeing anything like that.

Things are going pretty good right now. LOL If it's all the same to you guys, I think I'm going to continue to stay off the back brake mid corner.

When I get a dirtbike, then I'll experement.

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post #25 of 30 Old 07-11-2008, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
I understand in theory what you're saying. Sounds very advanced.

I've read a couple of books and can't remember seeing anything like that.

Things are going pretty good right now. LOL If it's all the same to you guys, I think I'm going to continue to stay off the back brake mid corner.

When I get a dirtbike, then I'll experement.
Could be a good idea. Just keep in mind it is there. Play with the rear on slower manuevers and see how it actually helps the suspension load up the front, feel how it alters you line when you are at a slight lean.

Just like everything at the track, do it in moderation. Apply 10%... if you feel nothing, don't go to 20%, goto 12%. etc...

It was very eye opening when i saw all the options I had at my finger tips.
You would also be amazed just how smooth things work when done properly.

I got fost on front brakes only... but it required learning how to use the rear to break into the next level at the track.

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post #26 of 30 Old 07-11-2008, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
I don't see why more Harleys, Gold Wings, sport tourers, and cruisers don't have linked brakes. Sportbikes are just fine as are.
A number of years ago while helping a friend look at cruiser style bikes, I realized a lot of them still had rear drum brakes instead of disc. The disc seems so much simpler and more efficient. It took a moment to figure out that this was deliberate to help someone without high performance experience to avoid locking the rear wheel.

Personally I would say that practice and experience are necessary for the proper use of any controls on motorcycles. Squids who think they can keep up with anybody just because they have a flashy bike are living (and dying) proof that riding over ones head is likely to cause serious grief to everyone.

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post #27 of 30 Old 07-11-2008, 09:54 PM
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Rossi uses rear brakes, Nuff said.

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...I'm slowly prepping the FZ...Goin to VIR with NESBA most likely next year since they are reasonably priced
^ Mark his words.

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post #28 of 30 Old 07-12-2008, 06:45 AM
 
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and he can also turn 30+ second faster lap times than anyone here...

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post #29 of 30 Old 07-12-2008, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
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and he can also turn 30+ second faster lap times than anyone here...
hence we should strive to be as much like him when riding as possible.

Buy my Pirelli supercorsa takeoffs. sizes 120/180
Quote:
Originally Posted by McCrimmon View Post
...I'm slowly prepping the FZ...Goin to VIR with NESBA most likely next year since they are reasonably priced
^ Mark his words.

My 1000RR

Im on another forum.
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post #30 of 30 Old 07-12-2008, 11:41 AM
 
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nah i know my physical and mental limitations are far below his

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