When there's nowhere to go. - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 27 Old 12-28-2018, 02:34 AM Thread Starter
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When there's nowhere to go.

I was out for a ride on Christmas morning, beautiful day here, 26C and 53 humidity.
This ute (truck, pickup) in front of me missed his street, jammed on the brakes and just stopped in the middle of the road, I hit the brakes and stopped right behind him about a metre or so, and then he reversed right on me, I managed to hit the horn but too late, he at least stopped before I ended up under the wheels.
He was very apologetic, and I was a bit shaken, he says he will pay for it all.
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post #2 of 27 Old 12-28-2018, 02:43 AM Thread Starter
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Few more pics.
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post #3 of 27 Old 12-28-2018, 03:51 AM
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F**kin idiot. Was he blind? Couldn't see the great red bike behind him? Headlight on and all.
Mostly little easy to replace parts that got banged up. Lucky. Still going to cost that fool quite a bit. OEM replacements I assume.
Rear cowl, just bog and paint?
Will you get a new exhaust can?
Might be a good time to upgrade to a very bright led headlight. And a louder horn. Not that either probably would've help you in this situation.
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post #4 of 27 Old 12-28-2018, 04:18 AM Thread Starter
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Just the headlight parts, fairing and alternator cover is $1300. If I put it in to Honda it will cost f*^%$#@
He was real keen on avoiding insurance, and said to put it in and get it done by professionals.
I could also just give it to my insurance to take care of, I have full comprehensive cover.
But I'm thinking, if he'll give my $2k I can get some aftermarket headlight and screen etc
I can polish the exhaust and touch up the rear cowl.

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post #5 of 27 Old 12-28-2018, 05:11 AM
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Get a quote for approx $2000. With parts and labor it will be at least that. Hit him up for that in cash. If he says no, go through your insurance.
Wonder why he wants to avoid insurance. What an idiot.
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post #6 of 27 Old 12-28-2018, 09:25 AM
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Amoebas are always in their own world
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post #7 of 27 Old 12-28-2018, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
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Might be a good time to upgrade to a very bright led headlight. And a louder horn.
Not the silliest idea...

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/High-Pow...frcectupt=true

I use this almost every time I ride, as numpties in their cars daydream and text and drift around all over the place. Because it's truck-style loud, they jump back in their lane before they realise they are "only" dealing with a bike. But it helps keep me safer, I'm sure.

This too:
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post #8 of 27 Old 12-28-2018, 12:42 PM
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I might get a Stebel horn. Kiwi, I noticed the horn kit you put up had two horns. A high and a low tone horn. Do you mount both horns or just one?

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post #9 of 27 Old 12-28-2018, 02:18 PM
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I might get a Stebel horn. Kiwi, I noticed the horn kit you put up had two horns. A high and a low tone horn. Do you mount both horns or just one?
Hung them both in about the same place as the stocker, on a different mount - a bit of a squeeze, but the extra volume of sound was worth the effort. They haven't been affected by heat from the exhaust, but the first set suffered a lot from rainwater, so this new pair has their own splashguard.

Originally fitted without the relay, and they worked ok, but only just, but then I googled a wiring diagram and mounted the relay too - now they'll blast your socks off.
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post #10 of 27 Old 12-28-2018, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diablo View Post
I was out for a ride on Christmas morning, beautiful day here, 26C and 53 humidity.
This ute (truck, pickup) in front of me missed his street, jammed on the brakes and just stopped in the middle of the road, I hit the brakes and stopped right behind him about a metre or so, and then he reversed right on me, I managed to hit the horn but too late, he at least stopped before I ended up under the wheels.
He was very apologetic, and I was a bit shaken, he says he will pay for it all.
VERY thankfully, you are still on your feet and walking and talking.
Just imagine how much worse it could have been, especially if you'd not been able to do the initial stop.
A bike can be fixed much more easily than a rider can.....................................

Past that, to say that the situation sux in an offscale way, is an understatement.
Hopefully you find some gain through the repair.

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post #11 of 27 Old 12-29-2018, 02:17 AM
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I wouldn't cheat the guy, seems to be an honest person that made a mistake. Damage looks light. Hopefully he pays more attention.

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post #12 of 27 Old 12-29-2018, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
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I wouldn't cheat the guy, seems to be an honest person that made a mistake. Damage looks light. Hopefully he pays more attention.
Mistake?????
How about mistakeS?

No awareness of vehicle(s) behind.
No mirror check(s).
Spikes his brakes to a dead stop.
Reverses in the middle of the road.

Our guy came within a hair of being totally pretzled and possibly ruined for life, by a string of mistakeS the driver made.

I'm not suggesting the driver be cheated or milked, but I do see at least some exploitation or due process pain being obligatory in this case.
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post #13 of 27 Old 12-29-2018, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
I wouldn't cheat the guy, seems to be an honest person that made a mistake. Damage looks light. Hopefully he pays more attention.
Mistake?????
How about mistakeS?

No awareness of vehicle(s) behind.
No mirror check(s).
Spikes his brakes to a dead stop.
Reverses in the middle of the road.

Our guy came within a hair of being totally pretzled and possibly ruined for life, by a string of mistakeS the driver made.

I'm not suggesting the driver be cheated or milked, but I do see at least some exploitation or due process pain being obligatory in this case.
That's exactly how I see it. A string of mistakes made by a lazy, inattentive driver which could easily have cost our mate his life. Or at least ruined it. I don't have any sympathy for the fella driving that ute at all, quite the opposite.
He's bloody lucky he didn't try to back over me! Things would've got real ugly real quick.

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post #14 of 27 Old 12-29-2018, 06:59 PM Thread Starter
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I like the idea of the horn and light, I bought a Stebal horn but it's a bit big, those 2 smaller ones look the go.
I would be happy for $2000 and I could fix it myself with some aftermarket parts.
I was thinking of replacing all these parts anyway, led headlight and a slightly larger fairing.
The guy is being more than helpful so far.
Otherwise I am fully insured so I could just let them fix it and chase him for the money.
I took photos of his license and ute with the rego plate, he had a framed picture in the back that blocked his rear view mirror. More than likely he is low on license points and drives a big truck for a living and his insurance is probably pretty expensive, so didn't want the cops involved, but it happened right outside a house with a lifetime copper who retired the day before, he got us to follow all the right protocols.

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post #15 of 27 Old 12-30-2018, 05:44 AM
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Mistake?????
How about mistakeS?

No awareness of vehicle(s) behind.
No mirror check(s).
Spikes his brakes to a dead stop.
Reverses in the middle of the road.

Our guy came within a hair of being totally pretzled and possibly ruined for life, by a string of mistakeS the driver made.

I'm not suggesting the driver be cheated or milked, but I do see at least some exploitation or due process pain being obligatory in this case.
I can see your point, but replacing all the bits on a bike is a fairly shinny penny already. There's a LOT of stupid drivers out there, if he was drunk, on the cell phone or running a red light... that's one thing. Spiking the brakes on purpose would change everything, I don't think this guy intended to do harm, HOWEVER, if this was a "brake check" then clean his clock.

I was under the impression the intent wasn't there and that does matter.

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post #16 of 27 Old 12-30-2018, 09:50 PM
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This is the U.S. take on your situation which may or may not be entirely applicable in Australia.

Let's look at every angle on this.

First and foremost, the driver is a complete dipshit and deserves whatever comes his way. This includes legal and financial. The biggest red flag (ignoring for the moment his several stupid actions that caused the accident in the first place) is his immediate entreaty to settle it up himself rather than getting his insurance company involved. If he was a truly conscientious person it would be quite a bit different: apologizing for his actions, exchanging drivers license and insurance information, and only then asking if it would be possible to get a proper estimate for repairs to him before submitting a claim, knowing that you have all the information necessary to rake him over the coals if he reneges on deal.

In this case he didn't want insurance involved, and the question "why" springs to mind. Is he trying to protect his (up until this accident) spotless record? Or is he on the precipice of getting his insurance cancelled for just the sort of driving habits he so abundantly displayed to you? Would "letting him off the hook" this time lead to a much bigger accident down the road in which lives are lost, and would you be partially responsible for helping him stay on the road to cause said accident? Ethics can be a bitch.

Second, did you get his insurance information? If so, great. If not, you are in a precarious position financially and legally. If there was no police report it is much more difficult to file a claim with his insurance and / or small claims court. Additionally, are you at least reasonably sure he is going to make good on his offer to pay for it all? If it comes down to legal action all he has to do is accuse you of being negligent by following too closely for safety, or a myriad of other scenarios that paint you as a typical aggressive motorcycle rider, and if your only response is "No I wasn't", which doesn't amount to much in a court of law, you could end up with nothing.

I'll probably get flamed for the next point, but here goes.

Third, and possibly the most important, is how much of the responsibility for the accident can be attributed to you? Were you following too close? Thinking of other things? Maybe enjoying the scenery a bit too much? Whatever? Had to ask. In my 1.3 million kilometers on two wheels there have been innumerable incidents which when I was a novice rider resulted in either a close call or an accident but after putting hundreds of thousands of miles on two wheels I wouldn't even notice. That's right, with all that experience packed into my motor cortex a stupid move into my path is usually avoided without having to resort to thinking about what to do, and it very rarely involves the brakes. Throttle and steering, of course. In your case it would be check the oncoming traffic, then behind you, then if appropriate apply a little more throttle and steer quickly right into the oncoming lane, get past the truck, then left back into your lane, all literally in the space of less than two seconds. Flipping him off is optional. If you had to plan out that whole maneuver in real time you would be a dent in his tailgate. If traffic is not conducive to such a maneuver the brakes might be necessary, but DO NOT STOP RIGHT BEHIND HIM!!! Given the height of more modern pickups it is impossible to see a motorcycle over the tailgate at all, so give yourself an out by either pulling left almost to the shoulder or right to the center stripe. Either one makes it possible to escape with nothing more damaging than the opinion that all car drivers are out to get you. BTW they aren't, but that is irrelevant to this discussion.

Anyway, that's my take on it. Good luck with the aftermath.

Rob
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post #17 of 27 Old 12-31-2018, 06:59 PM
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I run a hi/lo set of Fiamm Freeway Blasters... Sounds like a big ol' Buick coming at ya. Whatever you wire up, the relay is a must for full effect.
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post #18 of 27 Old 01-01-2019, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
This is the U.S. take on your situation which may or may not be entirely applicable in Australia.

Let's look at every angle on this.

First and foremost, the driver is a complete dipshit and deserves whatever comes his way. This includes legal and financial. The biggest red flag (ignoring for the moment his several stupid actions that caused the accident in the first place) is his immediate entreaty to settle it up himself rather than getting his insurance company involved. If he was a truly conscientious person it would be quite a bit different: apologizing for his actions, exchanging drivers license and insurance information, and only then asking if it would be possible to get a proper estimate for repairs to him before submitting a claim, knowing that you have all the information necessary to rake him over the coals if he reneges on deal.

In this case he didn't want insurance involved, and the question "why" springs to mind. Is he trying to protect his (up until this accident) spotless record? Or is he on the precipice of getting his insurance cancelled for just the sort of driving habits he so abundantly displayed to you? Would "letting him off the hook" this time lead to a much bigger accident down the road in which lives are lost, and would you be partially responsible for helping him stay on the road to cause said accident? Ethics can be a bitch.

Second, did you get his insurance information? If so, great. If not, you are in a precarious position financially and legally. If there was no police report it is much more difficult to file a claim with his insurance and / or small claims court. Additionally, are you at least reasonably sure he is going to make good on his offer to pay for it all? If it comes down to legal action all he has to do is accuse you of being negligent by following too closely for safety, or a myriad of other scenarios that paint you as a typical aggressive motorcycle rider, and if your only response is "No I wasn't", which doesn't amount to much in a court of law, you could end up with nothing.

I'll probably get flamed for the next point, but here goes.

Third, and possibly the most important, is how much of the responsibility for the accident can be attributed to you? Were you following too close? Thinking of other things? Maybe enjoying the scenery a bit too much? Whatever? Had to ask. In my 1.3 million kilometers on two wheels there have been innumerable incidents which when I was a novice rider resulted in either a close call or an accident but after putting hundreds of thousands of miles on two wheels I wouldn't even notice. That's right, with all that experience packed into my motor cortex a stupid move into my path is usually avoided without having to resort to thinking about what to do, and it very rarely involves the brakes. Throttle and steering, of course. In your case it would be check the oncoming traffic, then behind you, then if appropriate apply a little more throttle and steer quickly right into the oncoming lane, get past the truck, then left back into your lane, all literally in the space of less than two seconds. Flipping him off is optional. If you had to plan out that whole maneuver in real time you would be a dent in his tailgate. If traffic is not conducive to such a maneuver the brakes might be necessary, but DO NOT STOP RIGHT BEHIND HIM!!! Given the height of more modern pickups it is impossible to see a motorcycle over the tailgate at all, so give yourself an out by either pulling left almost to the shoulder or right to the center stripe. Either one makes it possible to escape with nothing more damaging than the opinion that all car drivers are out to get you. BTW they aren't, but that is irrelevant to this discussion.

Anyway, that's my take on it. Good luck with the aftermath.

Rob

He reversed on me, it is the last thing to go through you mind, there was no need to take evasive action, he stopped and I stopped right behind him, it happens hundreds of times every day. It is illegal to reverse on a main road, and it's never happened in the 44 years I've been driving / riding.
If he didn't have a large framed picture blocking his rear view mirror he would have seen me, I could have been in a small car and the same thing would have happened.
On a positive note, I had bumped the bike off the stand a little while back, so now I get to have that damage fixed for free.
It is not in my nature to seek revenge for someones stupid mistake, I would find it hard to believe anyone driving/riding has never made a mistake.

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post #19 of 27 Old 01-04-2019, 09:52 AM
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There is a fine line between Avoidable, and At Fault.

You, getting backed into, was easily avoidable. Here is why. If you had to cram on the brakes to keep from rear ending the pick-up, you were either going too fast, or you were following too closely, or both.

If a guy slams on the brakes, comes to a complete stop, just past an intersection, The first thing I'm thinking is: He going to back up. You left yourself no where to go.

I've been a UPS Driver for 35 years. Back when I started the Company drilled a saying into our heads. All Good Kids Love Milk. What that translates to is:

Aim high in steering.
Get the Big Picture
Keep your eyes moving
Leave yourself an Out
Make sure they see you

If you could turn back time, and replay that scenario would you do the exact thing, or would you give that dude a lot more room? 90% of the people on the road follow too closely. I get it, when you're in rush hour traffic, you have to tighten up a bit. It amazes me there aren't more Rear End Collisions.

When you got within 10 meters of his rear bumper, you should have been on the horn, hit the brights.

I know what I've said is harsh. But you can't control the other guy. All you can do is control your own vehicle. Count your lucky stars your not hurt, and the other guy has agreed to pay for your damages.

Had you been a UPS Driver, UPS would have charged you with an accident. You'd have lost a year safe driving.
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post #20 of 27 Old 01-04-2019, 05:42 PM
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Personally, I think that the scenario Diablo faced was so extreme and far exceeded the normal range of potential events to be ready for, that no practical defensive program would have saved him.

Having said that, I will also say that I think the "All Good Kids Love Milk" is brilliant and very worthy of adoption.

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post #21 of 27 Old 01-05-2019, 02:18 AM
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If the bloke in the ute hadn't broken several road laws suddenly and unexpectedly then the accident would never had happened.
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post #22 of 27 Old 01-05-2019, 10:22 AM
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But you cannot control what other people do. You can only control what You do. As a UPS Driver it is drilled into our heads to Expect the unexpected.

How would the scenario played out, had the motorcycle stopped 6 meters behind the truck instead of 1?

Space (from other drivers) is safety. Give yourself some.
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post #23 of 27 Old 01-05-2019, 12:46 PM
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ALWAYS RIDE 95-5.
95% of your faculties to stay alive
5% of your faculties to enjoy the ride.

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post #24 of 27 Old 01-07-2019, 05:09 PM Thread Starter
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The simple fact is you people being critical weren't there, and you don't know, but feel free to play devils advocate if it amuses you, or makes you feel superior in any way to us other mere mortals.
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post #25 of 27 Old 01-07-2019, 05:55 PM
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Wait a minute! You are the guy who named himself Diablo!

On a ride through Malibu California some many decades ago, I happened to keep my eye in my rear view mirror at a red light. A woman in a Mustang came up behind with no intention of stopping. I pulled over to the shoulder and she went right on through skidding over the very place I formerly occupied.

That was the beginning of 95-5 for me.

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post #26 of 27 Old 01-12-2019, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diablo View Post
The simple fact is you people being critical weren't there, and you don't know, but feel free to play devils advocate if it amuses you, or makes you feel superior in any way to us other mere mortals.
You're right, we weren't there.

On the other hand, yes we do know. At least I know. That exact situation has happened to me several times and I was able to avoid an accident by applying the "He just hit the brakes for no reason I could see, and he's certainly about to do another stupid thing that I will have to deal with." principle by making sure I had a clear escape route regardless of whatever stupid move he make subsequently. Simple as that. This does not mean I know everything about riding and dealing with inattentive drivers ... quite the contrary: I know that there is always more to learn, and there is no shortage of inattentive drivers doing very stupid things that I have not had to deal with ... yet. It's not that it amuses me, nor do I feel superior under any circumstances, just more experienced. That I wish to make my experience available to others is what I have done for many years, including teaching novice riders how to deal with traffic, and the vast majority are still riding.

Believe it or not we are not being critical, just trying to impart decades of experience to instruct someone who may need it in the future. Nothing more and nothing less. If you wish to get defensive and paint yourself as a completely innocent victim in all this you will learn nothing, and the next time a stupid driver makes a mistake that does not exactly match something you have already had to deal with may be your last day on this earth. The choice is yours.

Rob

If it has already been done, it is safe to assume it is possible to do it.
On the other hand, if it has not been done never assume it is impossible to do it.
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post #27 of 27 Old 01-13-2019, 11:43 AM
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That I wish to make my experience available to others is what I have done for many years...
..and when we are truly seeking to educate others, we choose our words carefully. What we say can sometimes be less important than how we say it. Tone is everything. Q.e.d.
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