What is your procedure to corner? - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 17 Old 06-25-2010, 07:00 AM Thread Starter
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What is your procedure to corner?

Mine is the following, did I miss anything?

Make sure in right gear for cornering
Preposition foot- Ball of foot on peg
Slide butt to have one butt cheek off of seat
Relax grip of outside hand
Kiss the mirror- lower head and place face near mirror
Find turn in point
Look into corner
Create a V with your bike- you should "push" the bike away from the corner until you reach your turn in point
Once at turn in- push forward on turn in side of handle bar causing the bike to "drop" into the corner
Continue looking ahead
Once you reach the apex, steadily increase throttle.
Once bike is vertical, return to riding position.

(This is for a single corner, so not transitioning from side to side)



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post #2 of 17 Old 06-25-2010, 07:20 AM Thread Starter
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Something I have been working on is trail braking... meaning using my front brake while mid corner to scrub speed or tighten my line. The trick seems to be rolling off the throttle slightly while applying the brake. You are never completely off the throttle and never 100% on the brakes. This way, you do not experience front end dive and can enter the corner at higher speed. (obviously a bit more advanced and not in anyway advocating new riders to try this) I began practicing this technique while riding in a straight line trying to figure out how to modulate the throttle and the brake at the same time. Then, I started on wide open sweeping turns and now have been trying it on some of the tighter stuff...



In 1915 T. Roosevelt said, in a speech to the KofC, "There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all. "
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post #3 of 17 Old 06-25-2010, 08:26 AM
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i dont think im advanced enough for trail braking. i prefer to get to a comfortable speed before the corner, and than accelerate through it. its alot easier to accel through the corner than brake.

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post #4 of 17 Old 06-25-2010, 08:30 AM
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I'm faar from doing anything ubertechnical, but I thought trailbraking was using the rear brake ?

Without all the body movements:

Accelerating toward corner, drop gear, brake hard as late as possible, hold throttle, release front brake and lighten rear braking while rolling on releasing rear brake.

You can tell by my verbiage how lousy I am so I wouldn't recommend this method. But there it is. And. If you look closely enough, you can see I never actually made a turn with all those shenanigans

Adding: Brake before, throttle through. Is my basic technique. If you can call it that

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post #5 of 17 Old 06-25-2010, 08:32 AM
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As we taught in MSF, Slow to a good entering speed, look where you want to go, lean and roll on the throttle..............

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post #6 of 17 Old 06-25-2010, 08:37 AM
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Not to derail this useful thread, but there's a procedure/manual/big business joke in there someplace.

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post #7 of 17 Old 06-25-2010, 08:44 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemonhead View Post
I'm faar from doing anything ubertechnical, but I thought trailbraking was using the rear brake ?
Trailbraking can involve the front brake, rear brake, or sometimes both



In 1915 T. Roosevelt said, in a speech to the KofC, "There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all. "
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post #8 of 17 Old 06-26-2010, 05:48 PM
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Same here, I thought trail was rear as in a trailing movement. What ever the new lingo, is, I learned in 1994 about rear braking on a K75 with ABS. I learned to use a bit of pressure with out slidding the back tire. That is what keeps the front end from squatting. Since 1994, 85-100K miles, I've used it with every bike I've owned, and just last month went back to ABS. I've never slid or lost the back end. (YET)

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post #9 of 17 Old 06-26-2010, 08:45 PM
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post #10 of 17 Old 06-27-2010, 10:13 AM
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On the track:
Pretty much as you described, at least as a starting point. In reality there is no universally correct riding style. Motorcycles are so complex in control input that even when it works for MotoGP rider Benzol Petrol de Gasolini there is no guarantee an exact duplicate of that style will work for anyone else.

At any rate, how many of us do anything exactly the same as anybody else?

Once you rack up sufficient track time on two wheels you will begin to listen to the messages the bike is sending you, interpret those messages, and make the necessary tiny adjustments to body position and control inputs to be sure the messages you're getting are more or less what you want. Make no mistake -- knowing how others are doing it is a great way to prevent the worst of the mistakes (and attendant crashes), and as a jumping off point is considerably loftier than having to figure it out for yourself, as I did.
Yes, I have the scars to prove it too.
Definitely take classes, watch instructional videos, hell just watch racing when you can, but most importantly RIDE!!! Only then are you internalizing this information and refining it to knowledge.

As to trail braking -- yes, it is a good skill to have under any circumstances, but an ability to do this absolutely requires being able to "feel traction", or more properly read the bike and act accordingly. Simply stated, it is a technique for entering a corner where the front brake (on the track at least) is applied hard while still upright, then gradually released while cutting in to the corner, balancing the increased forces on the front tire from turning in with decreasing braking forces. Properly done the front tire will be sliding at about 85 to 90% traction from the initiation of the turn all the way to the apex, and the suspension will never really feel a change in load (doesn't move significantly) once set up for the turn. The rear brake enters into the equation as well, but more during exiting the turn to modulate power delivery to the rear wheel, again balancing the loads on the front tire between turning and acceleration as well as controlling rear wheel spin, again for an optimum 85 to 90% traction. It's a skill that takes considerable practice and experience, but once mastered opens up a whole new realm of control.
See this article for more information: Motorcycle Trail Braking - Motorcyclist Magazine

There are more advanced cornering techniques, such as using a sliding front tire to scrub off speed instead of the brakes by initiating a turn in the normal way, then turning the front wheel into the corner, sometimes with a bit of front brake to start the slide, and hold it in the slide sometimes all the way through the turn. I've seen some masters at it, most notably Cal Rayborn who could hold his awful Harley roadracer right at the hairy edge of disaster lap after lap, often overriding his brakes and scrubbing off speed by sliding the front tire right down to the apex, and while still pushing the front get hard on the throttle to slide the rear on the exit, modulating traction at both ends with body position and rear brake. Astonishing to see, and many a slack jaw amongst the witnesses.

The bottom line? There is no magic formula for riding quickly, or indeed any riding at all, that does not require a thoroughly ingrained instinctual knowledge base to draw from, and that takes lots of riding and learning every second you're on two wheels.

Rob

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On the other hand, if it has not been done never assume it is impossible to do it.
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post #11 of 17 Old 06-27-2010, 05:28 PM
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There is alot of basics that do apply to all. LIke get ones weight positioned before turning in (or breaking if possible), look ahead. Far enough to make things seem slow in your mind so going fast is not scary and cause panic. Use reference points. Lots of other general rules to should always be followed. Get "twist of the wrist" and study it thuroghly. And twist two, itss also good. For anyone. Car or bike.

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post #12 of 17 Old 06-28-2010, 05:22 PM
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i just turn..it seems to work fine...why think it slowes you down
\

dont need a bike to ride the fast lane
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post #13 of 17 Old 06-30-2010, 08:59 AM
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roll up to curve at approx dbl the posted limit as i lean over to start the curve downshift 3 gears and dump the clutch when the rear end slides out to the side grab all the throttle i can and ride that mother on around..... thats how you do it on a goldwing.....


*(this is totally in jest and if you attempt this maneuver you will end up in the hospital and your bike totally messed up......)



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post #14 of 17 Old 06-30-2010, 11:47 AM
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We were encouraged to practice trail braking at the last track day that I did. I use it some, mostly for practice on the road. It's another "tool" that may keep you safe in a bad situation.

Shauggy, you're cornering has improved a lot since last year. I did a lot of catching up last year on the brakes of the 600. Not nearly so much this year.

you still need your hearing checked.....

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post #15 of 17 Old 06-30-2010, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
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Shooting M-4 and M-16s for a few years without hearing protection will do that to ya...



In 1915 T. Roosevelt said, in a speech to the KofC, "There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all. "
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post #16 of 17 Old 06-30-2010, 02:17 PM
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post #17 of 17 Old 06-30-2010, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
It's another "tool" that may keep you safe in a bad situation.
x100. I think the only reason MSF doesn't teach it is the fact that 99% of students can't even ride yet. 5 days is barely enough to learn how to survive on the road

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