This is what I want from Honda! - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 43 Old 11-08-2017, 08:09 AM Thread Starter
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This is what I want from Honda!

It will never make it into production and if it does it will be far removed from where it is as a concept, but this would get me to open my wallet to Honda again. Not for the silly wind turbine generator, but the overall styling and size. I absolutely love the idea of a 400cc inline-4 with some retro styling cues on a state of the art frame

https://www.cycleworld.com/honda-tea...ceptor-concept

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post #2 of 43 Old 11-08-2017, 08:41 AM
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well with the new retro modern line-up of bikes they have lined up who knows...

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post #3 of 43 Old 11-08-2017, 10:12 AM
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I would buy it just for the wind generator

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post #4 of 43 Old 11-08-2017, 01:43 PM
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Push button start on the tank? What kind of dumb idea is that...



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post #5 of 43 Old 11-08-2017, 01:46 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by crakerjac View Post
Push button start on the tank? What kind of dumb idea is that...

Absolutely brilliant if you ask me. Works great in every car I have driven with the same system... Why would you not want that on a bike?

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post #6 of 43 Old 11-08-2017, 02:12 PM
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Maybe it's just because I ride old crap, but one hand on the clutch and one on the throttle... What am I supposed to use for the PBS? I mean bikes have had PBS on the throttle controls for as long as I can tell... Is there any REAL benefit to moving it?



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post #7 of 43 Old 11-08-2017, 02:16 PM Thread Starter
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Maybe it's just because I ride old crap, but one hand on the clutch and one on the throttle... What am I supposed to use for the PBS? I mean bikes have had PBS on the throttle controls for as long as I can tell... Is there any REAL benefit to moving it?

Well normally you would have to insert your key first into the same basic position on the bike before you thumbed the starter on the control pod.

Now you get to not only skip a step in starting the bike, but also instead of inserting and twisting the key you simply push the button so the entire process is quicker as well.

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post #8 of 43 Old 11-08-2017, 02:21 PM
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Forgot about the keyless ignition... disregard my previous comment. I guess if the bike needs some throttle to start you just start it in neutral.



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post #9 of 43 Old 11-08-2017, 02:22 PM Thread Starter
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No fuel injected ANYTHING should ever require manual throttle to start
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post #10 of 43 Old 11-08-2017, 02:25 PM
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1. sit on bike
2. kick stand up
3. clutch in
4. push to start
5. role away

Not going to lie, I would like to have to do that, instead of faffing around with keys and what not. Maybe not that much of a time saver, but the movements would be simpler to do and more natural, especially if you can remove the key turning. Just sit and go.

As for button location, would be more ergonomic to have it where the start/kill switch is.

+1 from me

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post #11 of 43 Old 11-08-2017, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewmin3m View Post
1. sit on bike
2. kick stand up
3. clutch in
4. push to start
5. role away

Not going to lie, I would like to have to do that, instead of faffing around with keys and what not. Maybe not that much of a time saver, but the movements would be simpler to do and more natural, especially if you can remove the key turning. Just sit and go.

As for button location, would be more ergonomic to have it where the start/kill switch is.

+1 from me
push to start, eh?
My memory of pushing starting was my Norton Commando with the broken kickstarter.
Push starts with straight 50 oil on a cold nights were less than not a joy.
I won't ever aspire to have to do more push starts, LoL.

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post #12 of 43 Old 11-08-2017, 03:16 PM
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LOL


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Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
push to start, eh?
My memory of pushing starting was my Norton Commando with the broken kickstarter.
Push starts with straight 50 oil on a cold nights were less than not a joy.
I won't ever aspire to have to do more push starts, LoL.

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post #13 of 43 Old 11-08-2017, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
It will never make it into production and if it does it will be far removed from where it is as a concept, but this would get me to open my wallet to Honda again. Not for the silly wind turbine generator, but the overall styling and size. I absolutely love the idea of a 400cc inline-4 with some retro styling cues on a state of the art frame

https://www.cycleworld.com/honda-tea...ceptor-concept

I like the top half fairing element.
Pleasantly reminds me of some bikes of auld.

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post #14 of 43 Old 11-08-2017, 04:47 PM
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post #15 of 43 Old 11-08-2017, 04:55 PM
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quite the competition.

I saw that they have a 400cc version too which is really cool...


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post #16 of 43 Old 11-08-2017, 05:36 PM
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Just came off a new BMW R1200RTW. Did 1300 miles on the California coast. Push to start. Works great. One key lock down works well also. All the luggage locks with one push.
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post #17 of 43 Old 11-08-2017, 06:06 PM
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Kawie's Little Ninja turned into 400cc.

Now Honda is showing off this thing.

Could it be that they are tired of having KTM kicking their asses with the 390 Duke and RC390?

Put that fairing on the CB1000R, paint it red, white, and blue, and I'll buy that.

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post #18 of 43 Old 11-08-2017, 08:20 PM Thread Starter
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No competition at all..

Single cylinder road bikes are about as useful as a hooker without a pussy

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post #19 of 43 Old 11-09-2017, 06:30 AM
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Single cylinder JAP bikes are useless.

Power is power, regardless of how many cylinders.

The '15 KTM 390 was easy to get below 300 pounds. How much is that fat Honda going to weigh?

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post #20 of 43 Old 11-09-2017, 07:35 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper-x View Post
Single cylinder JAP bikes are useless.

Power is power, regardless of how many cylinders.

The '15 KTM 390 was easy to get below 300 pounds. How much is that fat Honda going to weigh?

I'm not sure where you are headed with that post. The RC390 is a turd... The top racers in MotoAmerica turn lap times in the dry on those things that I turn in the wet.

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post #21 of 43 Old 11-09-2017, 08:33 AM
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Would also be nice to have a remote start feature also. Kick stand down, bike in neutral, steering head locked- could start the bike from inside and warm her up (not practical at all) but would be nice.

FOBIK WIN module could be useful for sure. Just walk up to your bike, throw a leg over and push a button, bike starts, and you roll away. -Done. I would want this feature as well, regardless of where the start button is located.

My SRT-8 Grand Cherokee uses this system, and well as many other auto manufacturers,- why not bikes????? Its a good selling point and the future direction of motorcycle production. Next we will see tire pressure monitoring systems (TPS) with auto inflate/deflate features depending on conditions and user preference.





Why not?

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post #22 of 43 Old 11-09-2017, 06:33 PM
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ZX10 on rain tires?

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post #23 of 43 Old 11-10-2017, 07:24 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper-x View Post
ZX10 on rain tires?
More like SV650 on Pilot Powers

That's actually one of my biggest complaints about MotoAmerica. If you want to groom up & coming young riders for the world stage you aren't going to get it done on slow bikes. I don't care how close the racing is between them. To learn racecraft and hone skills you have to be up to speed commensurate with that which you are trying to attain. The RC390's are easily more than 10 seconds off the pace that the old Red Bull 125 2-Strokes ran like 10 years ago. It's the Common Core equivalent for motorcycle racing in the USA. I mean I get it, it's not easy to find series sponsors that make it affordable to go cup racing in this economy and all, but you are never going to make a full blown world champion by teaching them how to ride bikes that are slower than common street bikes at a trackday
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post #24 of 43 Old 11-10-2017, 06:49 PM
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Good explanation.

That little Honda, if done rught, would be pricey.

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post #25 of 43 Old 11-13-2017, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
More like SV650 on Pilot Powers

That's actually one of my biggest complaints about MotoAmerica. If you want to groom up & coming young riders for the world stage you aren't going to get it done on slow bikes. I don't care how close the racing is between them. To learn racecraft and hone skills you have to be up to speed commensurate with that which you are trying to attain. The RC390's are easily more than 10 seconds off the pace that the old Red Bull 125 2-Strokes ran like 10 years ago. It's the Common Core equivalent for motorcycle racing in the USA. I mean I get it, it's not easy to find series sponsors that make it affordable to go cup racing in this economy and all, but you are never going to make a full blown world champion by teaching them how to ride bikes that are slower than common street bikes at a trackday
I mean...the 390 cup and various moto3 type series seem to be working fine overseas...

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post #26 of 43 Old 11-13-2017, 10:51 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badmoon692008 View Post
I mean...the 390 cup and various moto3 type series seem to be working fine overseas...

At the 2017 MotoGP season finale Moto3 Bikes are 8.5 seconds off the lap time that MotoGP bikes turn

At the 2017 MotoAmerica Season Finale RC390 Cup bikes are 15.5 seconds off the lap times that Superbikes turn.

Basically 8 seconds difference between moto3 bikes and RC390 bikes. 8 seconds difference per lap difference means that someone just passed you and completely disappeared out of sight within a turn or two. We are not even taking into account the disparity between MotoGP bikes and National Superbikes here...


For the record the Red Bull 125cc Cup bikes back in 2008 were 6 seconds a lap faster than the RC390 bikes were this season at the same Barber Motorsports Park. Those 125's would turn lap times that VERY few trackdays guys would ever dream of at Barber. The pace the RC390's run at that track is what most of the top A-Group guys can do even in traffic.

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post #27 of 43 Old 11-13-2017, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
At the 2017 MotoGP season finale Moto3 Bikes are 8.5 seconds off the lap time that MotoGP bikes turn

At the 2017 MotoAmerica Season Finale RC390 Cup bikes are 15.5 seconds off the lap times that Superbikes turn.

Basically 8 seconds difference between moto3 bikes and RC390 bikes. 8 seconds difference per lap difference means that someone just passed you and completely disappeared out of sight within a turn or two. We are not even taking into account the disparity between MotoGP bikes and National Superbikes here...


For the record the Red Bull 125cc Cup bikes back in 2008 were 6 seconds a lap faster than the RC390 bikes were this season at the same Barber Motorsports Park. Those 125's would turn lap times that VERY few trackdays guys would ever dream of at Barber. The pace the RC390's run at that track is what most of the top A-Group guys can do even in traffic.
Very interesting analysis.
I think the 8 second deficit of the RC390s is very telling.
Makes one wonder what the training on RC390s is for, and how the hoped for "next step up" in class is supposed to be.
Not a step, and at the least, a big jump.
Too bad there is no direct injected 250 CC twin two stroke street bike to co-opt........

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post #28 of 43 Old 11-13-2017, 04:57 PM
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I think that bike looks ugly.


As for the track day racing stuff, I think I'd start off on a 300 or something. Cheap and easy to get up to race pace, and I'm a small guy already so I'd think I'd do pretty well on one.

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post #29 of 43 Old 11-13-2017, 05:45 PM Thread Starter
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As for the track day racing stuff, I think I'd start off on a 300 or something. Cheap and easy to get up to race pace, and I'm a small guy already so I'd think I'd do pretty well on one.
And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that at all. It's a great way to have some fun and enjoy racing, but at the end of the day riding around on a 400lb Ninja 300 with 36hp is nothing like manhandling a 600cc bike with 120hp that weighs the same let alone a literbike pumping out 200hp.

This is me passing my best bud Ricky on his Ninja300 (all green). Ricky is a multiple championship plate holder on both the Ninja250's and 600cc bikes. I'm just out cruising on a ZX-10 never even getting above like 7000rpms and he's got it pinned to the stop. There is simply no replacement for displacement when it comes to 4 strokes
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post #30 of 43 Old 11-13-2017, 06:04 PM
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..Makes one wonder what the training on RC390s is for..
Yeah, what is it for? What's the thinking behind it at MotoA? Like karts for baby F1 drivers? Make 'em pass and draft and deal with low power till they've learned some race-craft?

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post #31 of 43 Old 11-13-2017, 06:17 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah, what is it for? What's the thinking behind it at MotoA? Like karts for baby F1 drivers? Make 'em pass and draft and deal with low power till they've learned some race-craft?
That is the reasoning along with the fact it is incredibly difficult to get factory support funding for any class of this kind.

In theory it is a good idea. In reality learning to ride a really slow bike at the near limit does not make you capable of riding a fast bike to the same degree. If it did then we could all just become MotoGP champions by riding around on those 50cc pocket bikes in parking lots for 10 years of our childhood.

So many different things are happening at proper race pace on a motorcycle that preparing your mind, body and reactions for them are essential to getting up to a real pace just off the lap record. The closest I have ever come to a lap record is 7 seconds. Most tracks I am 10+ seconds off the record and I am no slouch even now way past my prime. The first time you go into a turn so fast that you are no longer able to steer the bike, but merely along for the ride until it comes out of the trajectory that physics put it on, you will have an entirely new perspective on how fast a bike can really go through a turn and then you realize that other riders do that every single turn on every single lap and still have the presence of mind to twist the throttle to the stop when they exit the turn! That feeling of the chassis being loaded up under centrifugal force and your body being pressed into the tank with enough force to leave bruises on your chest cannot be learned on a bike that is 15 or 20 seconds off the lap record and until you learn how to cope with those speeds all the racecraft in the world isn't going to make up for the lack of feel, depth perception and momentum you have to learn how to use.

Just my .02 as an old track hack.
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post #32 of 43 Old 11-13-2017, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
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Yeah, what is it for? What's the thinking behind it at MotoA? Like karts for baby F1 drivers? Make 'em pass and draft and deal with low power till they've learned some race-craft?
Hmmm, I just checked out our local Mini Roadracing classes.
Age 10 to 21 can be on a liquid cooled 2 stroke single with engine mods allowed.
Imagine a 14 year old weaned on that, stepping "up" to a RC390 that would be lapped about every 13 laps by the bike they just came off of to migrate "up" to, with said spanking being done by a 10 year old.

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post #33 of 43 Old 11-14-2017, 12:25 AM
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Just my .02 as an old track hack.

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post #34 of 43 Old 11-14-2017, 09:08 AM
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Yeah, what is it for? What's the thinking behind it at MotoA? Like karts for baby F1 drivers? Make 'em pass and draft and deal with low power till they've learned some race-craft?
the 390 cup is run worldwide, with a yearly finale where the top riders from each region come together to race... It's not like MotoA does it specifically for them.

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post #35 of 43 Old 11-14-2017, 09:39 AM Thread Starter
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I just looked up the results for the 2017 Red Bull Rookies Cup at Jerez and compared them to the 2017 RC390 Cup results

The Red Bull Rookies Cup bikes are 11 seconds a lap faster than the RC390 bikes. 11 SECONDS!!!!
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post #36 of 43 Old 11-14-2017, 02:21 PM
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I dunno... I had been looking at getting a 'faster' track bike, but the low side on my SV hurt like hell. I was ONLY going about 80 MPH when my front end washed out (panic braked) and I can only imagine the world of hurt if I doubled that speed. Something that nobody showed me (and I wish they had) was PROPER fitting leathers. I hadn't taken into consideration my skinny t-rex arms when fitting my suit.



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post #37 of 43 Old 11-14-2017, 04:09 PM
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I dunno... I had been looking at getting a 'faster' track bike, but the low side on my SV hurt like hell. I was ONLY going about 80 MPH when my front end washed out (panic braked) and I can only imagine the world of hurt if I doubled that speed. Something that nobody showed me (and I wish they had) was PROPER fitting leathers. I hadn't taken into consideration my skinny t-rex arms when fitting my suit.
Ah yes, bunched up leathers working back and forth can make it look like your skin had some road rash.
A pinner in a baggy suit can really get worked by the leather, regardless of there being a liner or not.
Back in the 60s and 70s, Agostini for one, wore unlined skin tight leathers over two pairs of long underwear.
So, while they had no body armour back then, they did have the internal suit friction part well scienced out.

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post #38 of 43 Old 11-15-2017, 06:21 AM
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Ah yes, bunched up leathers working back and forth can make it look like your skin had some road rash.
A pinner in a baggy suit can really get worked by the leather, regardless of there being a liner or not.
Back in the 60s and 70s, Agostini for one, wore unlined skin tight leathers over two pairs of long underwear.
So, while they had no body armour back then, they did have the internal suit friction part well scienced out.
Yeah... This happened at the 'end of the season' event, so a little chilly. I was wearing my Columbia base layer under my leathers and that 'Omni-Heat' is quite abrasive (no bueno in a crash situation). I came down on my elbow, the elbow pad spun around while I was sliding and I wore a hole in my leathers where the inside of my elbow should be.... I'm looking to see if someone locally can patch it and possibly slim down the sleeves by taking out some of the stretch panel.



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post #39 of 43 Old 11-15-2017, 07:57 AM
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The RC390 race bike is restricted to 38 HP, down from the 44 that it comes from the factory. I read that in Roadracing World, when trying to find the HP of the old 125s. If that is true, it goes a long way towards explaining the lap times.

Google it.

Leave it to KTM to build a streetbike that has to be detuned when raced.

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post #40 of 43 Old 11-15-2017, 08:06 AM Thread Starter
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The current Red Bull rookies cup bikes are single cylinder 250cc KTM 4-Stroke bikes

11 SECONDS!

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