The Sato Saga - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 16 Old 11-29-2017, 04:00 PM Thread Starter
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The Sato Saga

Background info for new comers--see Nemo's story.
https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...sts-23316.html

The Gen I--in addition to supposedly being made by Sato themselves, had a straight thru large diameter perf core.
The Gen II--supposedly outsourced from Sato, used reducing cones on each end to go from the large diameter end caps to a smaller diameter perf core & back.

Of all the gen II rebuilds I have seen & that have been described by other members, it is the reducing cones that rot away--the perf tube is largely OK & any damage is due to the contact with the rotting cones. I have never seen a gen I rebuild on this site. Since the gen I's do not have these reducing cones the cores are solid & they do not have issues--they MAY use a different higher grade of perf tube also due to different sources but that is just conjecture. It may be the same & just benefit from no rotting cones.

My carbon gen II Satos were getting loud & raspy--louder than the gen I for sure; so despite knowing I was headed down a rabbit hole I dug in. Since my mine did not rot away as fast as others did I missed the boat on warranty replacements from Sato.

Looks fine from here.


Packing all there tight--dense too.


Inlet end not looking promising.


The glass comes unrolls easy.


The ??steel?? wool was a different story. Had to hack it off. So packed & dense--there was NO sound making it thru to be absorbed by the glass--hence the raspy. It had a bronzish tint so it is either brass wool or was rusting itself--I will not be reusing any steel wool for both of these reasons. I would rather let the packing do its job & it is just one more thing that can corrode--packing wont.


Outlet end looks perfect.


Inlet is rotting--just the cone.



So now here are my options:
1. Rebuild with new perf tubes like Nemo.
2. Install the complete Ti gen I's I already own & was selling. (bought with this day in mind)
3. Steal the gen I cores & put them in my carbon sleeves, then fix the Ti's like Nemo.
4. Go back to stock already.

Leaning toward #3. I don't think my 9er would be the same without those carbon cans. I would also see what the condition of gen I's internals look like & get to choose to put them in my gen II's if I see fit or advantageous verses making my own cores (which would remain an option).

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post #2 of 16 Old 11-29-2017, 04:16 PM
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I must say, on the outside a beautiful exhaust.
I'd go for option 3.

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post #3 of 16 Old 11-29-2017, 06:36 PM
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I say option 4 (so you can sell me the Gen 1's!!!)

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post #4 of 16 Old 11-29-2017, 07:55 PM Thread Starter
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Now that I think about it stainless turns gold under heat so maybe that steel wool is stainless & just turned gold.

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post #5 of 16 Old 12-03-2017, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
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Dismantled the other gen II muffler from the opposite side--inlet cone better than the first one, still sold but a fair amount of surface rust.

Set of Gen I's to use as the donor for a core replacement.


Inside the gen I. I could just unroll the fiber packing from the gen II; the gen I seemingly had no end to start unrolling so I had to cut it. You can see the multiple layers of fiber packing then the steel wool around the core. Gen II shown along top.


The steel wool from just one can.


Direct comparison of cores. Gen I near, Gen II far.

Perf tube material is 1mm thick. Gen I is 60mm OD x 58 mm ID (~2-3/8" OD x 2-1/4" ID). Gen II is 45mm OD (~1-3/4" OD). Overall baffle length is 385mm (~15-1/8"). Note the perf tube or reducing cones go OUTSIDE of the stub tube in the end caps, so the ID is what is critical. I believe Nemo reversed this due to US size availability & stuck the perf tubes INSIDE the end cap tubes instead.

Comparison of end nozzles; gen I is short, gen II is long.


All broken down.


Pair of Gen I cores as solid as the day they were born, ready for transplant. Glad no one picked these up before I got to them.


Other notes.
The end caps are siliconed to the cores so first time removal takes a lot of effort--especially not to crush anything since both can materials are so thin.

Carbon is about 0.039" thick, Ti is about 0.027" thick. End caps about 0.049" thick.

It is easier to cut yourself on the edges of the carbon than the metal.

Without cores or packing the carbons are so light they just might float away.

5/32" is the drill bit to use to drill the rivets; smaller & it may not get the head off before it starts spinning. Any larger & you risk enlarging the holes.

Gen I used aluminum rivets with a 12mm (0.473" head).

Gen II used stainless rivets with a 8mm (0.313" head).

I don't anticipate gen I cores to be problematic in any normal/reasonable scenario. Unfortunately a poor/low grade (or batch) of SS negatively affects the reducing cones of gen II.

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post #6 of 16 Old 12-03-2017, 08:36 PM
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please don't cannibalize the gen 1s!

I have a pair of replacement cones direct from Sato if you're interested. I'd be willing to let them go for the right price.

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post #7 of 16 Old 12-05-2017, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
please don't cannibalize the gen 1s!

I have a pair of replacement cones direct from Sato if you're interested. I'd be willing to let them go for the right price.
I would be interested in them..

Sent from my STH100-1 using Tapatalk

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post #8 of 16 Old 12-13-2017, 08:17 PM Thread Starter
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Everything ready for reassembly.


Cores slip over the stub tubes on the inlet pipes & end caps.



Using 316 stainless rivets (both body & mandrel) for the most corrosion resistance you can get. Pulling SS rivets is not like pulling AL rivets. Last pipe I repacked used 3/16" SS rivets & I learned the hard way a pneumatic riveter is the only way to go at that size. These are only 5/32" so it is "do-able" but why? One of these makes it so easy & the results look alot better since you can hold the bands tight & where you want them rather than putting everything you got into a manual riveter.


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post #9 of 16 Old 12-14-2017, 05:45 AM
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Is the original ti going to be back on the market eventually or u going to keep as spare?

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post #10 of 16 Old 12-14-2017, 10:27 AM Thread Starter
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Don't know; nothing in them, or even to put in them, as of now.

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post #11 of 16 Old 12-14-2017, 11:18 AM
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Hello Bryce919er,

Where did you buy the packing material ?

Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryce919er View Post
Everything ready for reassembly.


Cores slip over the stub tubes on the inlet pipes & end caps.



Using 316 stainless rivets (both body & mandrel) for the most corrosion resistance you can get. Pulling SS rivets is not like pulling AL rivets. Last pipe I repacked used 3/16" SS rivets & I learned the hard way a pneumatic riveter is the only way to go at that size. These are only 5/32" so it is "do-able" but why? One of these makes it so easy & the results look alot better since you can hold the bands tight & where you want them rather than putting everything you got into a manual riveter.


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post #12 of 16 Old 12-14-2017, 08:47 PM Thread Starter
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Going with loose fill packing. Hopefully 2lbs per muffler is enough--will find out soon. These guys were very helpful.

Muffler Packing - Area P :: No Limits
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post #13 of 16 Old 12-16-2017, 02:31 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Sato used the large aluminum head gen 1 rivets at the band joint to hold them shut & the smaller SS rivets everywhere else. The band joint is also at the bottom of the can so the inlet ones rotted away to the point the heads fell off & I found them on the floor a few months ago. I too thought a larger head rivet was needed to hold the band joint together but was not going to use AL so i got some small SS metric fender washers.
Original Sato (left) verses my way (right)


Ready for packing


2lbs per muffler is not enough. The website & packing guy said you could not really over stuff them so I packed it firm. I ended up here after 2lb.


Into the 2nd bag for the first muffler.


Called that full.


Ran out of packing here on the 2nd muffler. 2 more lbs on the way. If I use it all when it gets here that's 3lb per can. If you are repacking gen II's with smaller cores you may even need a 7th lb.


At least one done. Just how I wanted them & better than when they were new.



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post #14 of 16 Old 12-16-2017, 02:50 PM
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Sweet.

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post #15 of 16 Old 12-23-2017, 05:36 PM Thread Starter
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Did not quite use all the 3rd 2 lb bag. Some left. Gen II would be fine without a 7th lb also. I packed it dense but the stock packing was very dense also--almost like rolled up felt. With this new loose stuff & how much I put in they are definitely heavier than they were from Sato. One end nozzle cap was difficult to get on straight & simultaneously centered on the baffle so it cut into the edge of the carbon 1/8" or so before I noticed it & corrected it. Its fine & what little mark there was is covered up & reinforced by the banding.

Took the cans off & back on without removing the tail which I have also done one other time previously. Don't let anyone tell you it can't be done but I won't lie & say its easy. It is easier to align the cans with the tail on but still not perfect...they never are.




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post #16 of 16 Old 12-23-2017, 05:37 PM
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The jelly is up there

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