Stainless Steel Brake Lines - Page 2 - Wrist Twisters
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post #41 of 72 Old 04-17-2009, 09:31 PM Thread Starter
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post #42 of 72 Old 04-18-2009, 04:46 AM
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this is a little kids art on how i bleed brakes,i find it to be faster and better than any mityvac job i have ever done.
get a jar put a little fluid in the bottom, attach hose to bleed screw.
zip tie a loop in it, open bleed screw. oh and make sure resivor is open and rdy to go. start pumping. you can do it yourself as you dont have to keep closing the bleed screw. i have found that using the mityvac you have to pull the bleed screw all the wat out and tape the threads(damn i just forgot the name of that white tape $H!t) with out it you will suck air through the threads and never be happy.

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post #43 of 72 Old 04-18-2009, 06:32 AM
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I made a brake bleeder that looks similar to 3d's setup, but added a vacuum source.

Brake Bleeder

+1 on sealing the threads on the bleeder screw when using a vacuum source

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post #44 of 72 Old 04-18-2009, 07:41 AM Thread Starter
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The topic of brake bleeding continues to come up over and over, do a search and see what I mean.
Added to the 919 Helpful Topics are marylandmike' homemade brake bleeder procedure and robtharalson's procedure. Either of these 2 methods are worth checking out.

Me personally: Never had any problems with the tried and true pump/squeeze/crack the bleed nipple/repeat as necessary.

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post #45 of 72 Old 04-22-2009, 09:05 AM
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I installed some SS front lines the other day.

Attempted that "tried and true" traditional method. Couldn't get squat for results.

Could have never finished this job without a Mityvac and also I thought key was some teflon tape on the bleed screws.

Will never bleed brakes without a Mityvac and teflon tape again.

The Mityvac cost me $38 at the Iron Pony store, but in review I should have checked out what Harbor Freight had to offer first.

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post #46 of 72 Old 05-11-2009, 10:41 AM
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While rebanding my wheels at TJs place, he mentioned ss lines were the best money spent so far due to hose expansion under pressure.
Also suggested being aware of unscheduled stoppies.

But never once spoke of bleeding issues.

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post #47 of 72 Old 05-31-2009, 03:40 PM
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Will they do a 2 line front like some Triumphs and Suzukis use where one line goes from the mastercylinder to the right caliper and the second hose goes over the fender to the right caliper? This seems to me to be a neater installation than a 2 line race kit.

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post #48 of 72 Old 06-01-2009, 04:55 AM
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well i dunno but i have seen very nice and neat race kits. then again seen some bad ones.
i dont like the idea of a brake line scratching my fender though.

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post #49 of 72 Old 06-01-2009, 06:33 AM
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One thing in addition to the SS lines. If you spend a few more bucks and get the proper weight springs for your bike.

I had put the ss lines on my 919 and was kinda underwhelmed untill I dropped a set of racetech springs in. Wow amazing difference.

Do yourself a favor. Suspension makes a world of difference



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post #50 of 72 Old 03-09-2010, 01:14 PM
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Ordered. I sometimes feel like I buy more stuff for my bike than I get to ride it

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post #51 of 72 Old 03-09-2010, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peoples1234 View Post
Ordered. I sometimes feel like I buy more stuff for my bike than I get to ride it
Now you need a brake line holder! I know a guy that can hook you up!!!

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post #52 of 72 Old 03-09-2010, 02:36 PM
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I just installed my SS lines last weekend. The bleeding procedure was somewhat rushed, and the brakes feel like there may be some air left in the system. I will throw on a set of speedbleeders, which will hopefully make things easier.

Another thing I like to do is use ATE Superblue DOT4 brake fluid. Use to use it on the track/street car awhile back and had great results. The blue color will tell you when you have replaced the system with the new fluid. Vice versa when it's time to replace the blue fluid.

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post #53 of 72 Old 03-09-2010, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
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Now you need a brake line holder! I know a guy that can hook you up!!!
Oddly enough, you already have. I ordered one when you first started taking preorders. I was going to order the lines at the same time, but I just never got around to it. Then I had some extra cash laying around, so I am finishing what I started more than a few months ago. If I cannot find it, then I'll hit you up.

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post #54 of 72 Old 03-09-2010, 11:22 PM
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I got my G&J lines and mach moto holder coming in this week, I also got the Mityvac and a scrap lexan piece that I plan to fabricate to work as an upper vacuum source to pull the air up, I believe Rob Tharson did a write up on this before. It should work pretty well and easy.

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post #55 of 72 Old 03-14-2010, 04:04 PM
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I put a set of these on last year but have found the stock length a little to long for my ultra lows. Any one running ultra lows order the lines shorter? If so by how much?

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post #56 of 72 Old 05-19-2010, 10:57 PM
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well i dunno but i have seen very nice and neat race kits. then again seen some bad ones.
i dont like the idea of a brake line scratching my fender though.
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post #57 of 72 Old 05-20-2010, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldjothi View Post
well i dunno but i have seen very nice and neat race kits. then again seen some bad ones.
i dont like the idea of a brake line scratching my fender though.
The G&J lines come with cover sleeves (look like heat shrunk on) in a variety of colors for looks and to protect anything they may rub against. Personally, I prefer bare, but buy sleeved and cut it away where it's not going to be at risk of abrading anything such as the headlight bucket, any wiring harnesses, or Ripper's line holders. I use AN fittings (fuck banjos!) and aerospace Adel type clamps for line retention, specifically Umpco double stainless with molded double cushion -- if it's good enough for a Stealth Bomber it's good enough for me!

The colored sleeves reinforce my contention that the SS lines are more for bling than actual braking performance improvement -- at least on the street. On the track they are absolutely essential, but more for consistent braking feel due to their much greater heat resistance than the OE lines. A quick illustration: a couple years ago a racer bought a CBR1000 on Friday, spooned on a pair of racing tires, safety wired everything, and went racing Sunday. He reported that the brakes lost much of their power by the 10th (of 15) lap, and the lever was coming back nearly to the grip by the last lap. Upon inspection the OE lines looked fine until the lever was pulled whereupon they balooned to about twice their original diameter at the caliper banjos, and when pulled a bit harder one burst! Obviously overheated, which the SS lines can't do at these temperatures. This is almost impossible to do on the street.

As to the improved feel, if you have as much experience with braking systems as I do (over 30 years setting up and modifying) and fettled brakes with OE lines you would be hard pressed to feel any difference when fitting SS lines for the street. I will not set up OE lines for the track for obvious reasons. Only you can say if your street riding requires SS lines, and if the answer is yes TAKE IT TO THE TRACK!!!! Of course if you like the look by all means go for it.

Let the flaming begin.

Rob

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post #58 of 72 Old 05-20-2010, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
The colored sleeves reinforce my contention that the SS lines are more for bling than actual braking performance improvement -- at least on the street. On the track they are absolutely essential, but more for consistent braking feel due to their much greater heat resistance than the OE lines. A quick illustration: a couple years ago a racer bought a CBR1000 on Friday, spooned on a pair of racing tires, safety wired everything, and went racing Sunday. He reported that the brakes lost much of their power by the 10th (of 15) lap, and the lever was coming back nearly to the grip by the last lap. Upon inspection the OE lines looked fine until the lever was pulled whereupon they balooned to about twice their original diameter at the caliper banjos, and when pulled a bit harder one burst! Obviously overheated, which the SS lines can't do at these temperatures. This is almost impossible to do on the street.
sorry rob but i gotta disagree with you. i'll admit i dont know much about the state of oem lines on newer bikes, but i can tell you right now on an older bike with rubber oem lines, those suckers'll balloon to no end. hell on my 89 honda shadow vlx, i'd watch those brake lines balloon after 5 minutes of riding. having to replace them and oem lines being the same price as SS, i went with SS. noticed a different feel immediately. not so spongey and much better consistent feel. keep in mind, i'm limiting myself to the older bikes. i dont know about the new ones.

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post #59 of 72 Old 05-20-2010, 03:27 PM
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I felt an improvement with SS lines. HOWEVER, I would be willing to bet that a large part of the improvement most of us feel is due to new brake fluid and freshly bled lines. Opinion, Rob?

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post #60 of 72 Old 05-20-2010, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay313 View Post
I felt an improvement with SS lines. HOWEVER, I would be willing to bet that a large part of the improvement most of us feel is due to new brake fluid and freshly bled lines. Opinion, Rob?
Absolutely!
Brake systems require occasional attention and usually feel better with fresh fluid and less air. Good point.

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Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
sorry rob but i gotta disagree with you. i'll admit i dont know much about the state of oem lines on newer bikes, but i can tell you right now on an older bike with rubber oem lines, those suckers'll balloon to no end. hell on my 89 honda shadow vlx, i'd watch those brake lines balloon after 5 minutes of riding. having to replace them and oem lines being the same price as SS, i went with SS. noticed a different feel immediately. not so spongey and much better consistent feel. keep in mind, i'm limiting myself to the older bikes. i dont know about the new ones.
Thanks for reminding me.
That's another aspect I didn't mention which deserves attention -- OE lines deteriorate over time and use. If they are more than 8 years (or so) old or get heat cycled a lot the inner reinforcement starts to break down and the brake slowly starts to feel softer. Many attribute this to the whole system getting old, but the main culprit is the lines. SS lines do not break down unless they are physically crushed or otherwise damaged, and I know of at least 3 bikes I set up over 20 years ago with brakes that still feel as good as the day they were fitted. Since I have never priced out OE rubber lines I wasn't aware they were that expensive!

Just checked Ron Ayers and the front lines for a 919 retail for $80 -- about the same as a full set of G&J lines, and $30 more than just the fronts. The definition of a no brainer.

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post #61 of 72 Old 05-20-2010, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
Thanks for reminding me.
That's another aspect I didn't mention which deserves attention -- OE lines deteriorate over time and use. If they are more than 8 years (or so) old or get heat cycled a lot the inner reinforcement starts to break down and the brake slowly starts to feel softer. Many attribute this to the whole system getting old, but the main culprit is the lines. SS lines do not break down unless they are physically crushed or otherwise damaged, and I know of at least 3 bikes I set up over 20 years ago with brakes that still feel as good as the day they were fitted. Since I have never priced out OE rubber lines I wasn't aware they were that expensive!

Just checked Ron Ayers and the front lines for a 919 retail for $80 -- about the same as a full set of G&J lines, and $30 more than just the fronts. The definition of a no brainer.

Rob
So getting SS lines ahead of time falls under "preventive maintenance" and not "bling factor."

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post #62 of 72 Old 05-20-2010, 04:52 PM
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So getting SS lines ahead of time falls under "preventive maintenance" and not "bling factor."

In the same way buying a new bike and a spare motor at the same time could be classified as "preventive maintenance". Fine if you're racing where the motor is as expendable as the tires, but a bit excessive otherwise.

Let's call it "preventive bling" and be done with it. At least the bling is functional in this case.

Rob

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post #63 of 72 Old 05-20-2010, 11:26 PM
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Preventive bling it is. Lol.

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post #64 of 72 Old 09-03-2010, 03:43 PM
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Does G&J have a web site?

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post #65 of 72 Old 09-03-2010, 04:14 PM
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Does G&J have a web site?
Click this link;
http://www.gandjaircraft.net/

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post #66 of 72 Old 09-04-2010, 05:13 PM
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Hey guys, in the market for braided lines, is G & J the answer? Ive read alot of good posts abt them, but remember seeing one or two not so good ones. Just want to know the current opinion abt them. Cheers.

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post #67 of 72 Old 09-04-2010, 05:34 PM
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Hey guys, in the market for braided lines, is G & J the answer? Ive read alot of good posts abt them, but remember seeing one or two not so good ones. Just want to know the current opinion abt them. Cheers.
The only problem with G&J lines i've ever heard of is they used to offer anodized aluminum banjo fittings that were causing sealing problems. As soon as they identified the problem as more than rare assembly difficulties they stopped using the terminations until such time as they could be absolutely sure the fittings were reilable. So far they still do not offer the aluminum ends.

I caused the only other reported problem by having a set made right at the beginning and specifying the wrong length master cylinder banjo bolt. When it came back and bit them they addressed the problem by prepackaging all the hardware.

As I have stated before I have several sets from them that have been in use for over 20 years without so much as a hiccup, and have absolutely no hesitation in recommending their lines regardless of price. And no, they did not pay me to say that.

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post #68 of 72 Old 09-04-2010, 05:42 PM
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Thanks Gary. It would never have occurred to me to search for an aircraft firm.

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post #69 of 72 Old 09-04-2010, 05:56 PM
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I ordered my lines around the time they had the issue with the anodized ends. I had ordered mine with the anodized ends and they told me I would be charged for them once they were built. I never seen a charge on my credit card after a week so I gave them a call and they told me about the issue with the ends. They said they didn't want to send out my lines till they got it figured out which way nice since I live in Canada so it would suck to have to wait for them to clear customs just to send them back. Really happy with the lines and their customer service.

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post #70 of 72 Old 09-04-2010, 06:25 PM
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much appreciated rob, sweet, i shall be getting them . So they have all the specs nows?

Sorry last question, what end do they use now if not aluminium.

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post #71 of 72 Old 09-04-2010, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veEnom View Post
much appreciated rob, sweet, i shall be getting them . So they have all the specs nows?
They sure do.
Quote:
Sorry last question, what end do they use now if not aluminium.
Chrome plated steel is all they use at the moment. I'm trying to source stainless ones for them, but there seem to be liability issues every fabrication shop I've talked to is a slave to. Regardless, as long as you specify stainless crimp ferrules you're good to go.

Personally, I always use AN fittings instead of banjos -- technically they give a slightly cleaner actuation, but if there's a discernable difference in feel I can't tell. One difference I can see is it's one helluva lot easier to bleed (no pockets of air trapped in the banjo fittings) due to the straight through nature of the AN fittings. It can be a bear to adapt, however, because it's impossible to stack the fittings like banjos. See the attached image of the manifold on my 919.

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Attached Images
File Type: jpg Master cyl manifold.jpg (86.8 KB, 39 views)

If it has already been done, it is safe to assume it is possible to do it.
On the other hand, if it has not been done never assume it is impossible to do it.
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post #72 of 72 Old 09-04-2010, 07:27 PM
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you are a wealth of knowledge Rob, cheers!!

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