Slippin' and slidin' - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 14 Old 01-05-2012, 12:06 PM Thread Starter
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Slippin' and slidin'

When I first moved to Santa Maria (about 60 miles north of Santa Barbara on the 101) it became apparent that traction was a bit iffy on practically all roads around here. At first I thought it was the somewhat old Pilot Road 2's, but once I got out of the immediate vicinity there were the old familiar exemplary manners in corners. Puzzled, I talked with a construction contractor working near my place and found out that practically the whole town is built on river bottom: read "sand". Every time the wind blows (9 months out of the year) or it rains (on and off the whole year, but mainly in the early morning) sand is blown / washed onto the roads in a nice even, and practically invisible, layer. Goody.

Well, after 3 years riding here I have come to the conclusion that the 919 makes a decent flat tracker! All you need to do is pitch it into a corner, dial in some throttle, and the rear tire spins up in a surprisingly controllable manner. Case in point: today when coming back from buying some electronic components I made a right turn to get on the 101 and dialed in a little more throttle than most would -- the tach rose about 500 rpm and the rear stepped out about a foot or so. The old and recently well honed insticts took hold, I hung off a little more, left the throttle where it was, dragged the rear brake to hold the slide where it was, and maintained it for about 80 feet or so while accelerating toward the on ramp to the 101 south. At no time did it get scary. Hell, I'm so used to it I usually don't notice it any more. Frankly it's very reminiscent of my roadracing days where sliding the rear on corner exits is necessary for a good placing.

The point of all this is I could either tiptoe around every corner and curse the condition of the roads or learn (or in my case remember) how to deal with it and be a safer rider in consequence.

Rob

If it has already been done, it is safe to assume it is possible to do it.
On the other hand, if it has not been done never assume it is impossible to do it.
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post #2 of 14 Old 01-05-2012, 02:14 PM
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I need to take some kind of a dirt class. If it were me, I'd chop the throttle and get my butt punted over the bar.

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post #3 of 14 Old 01-05-2012, 02:45 PM
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just take the 919 out to some dirt road and fuck around! i do it all the time haha.

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post #4 of 14 Old 01-05-2012, 03:00 PM
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I ride dual-sport bikes out in the desert most of the time. I had the rear of my 919 step out when I was pulling out in front of oncoming traffic...kept the throttle steady and rode it smoothly stepped out a foot or so for about 10 yards. I was thinking it was all the dirt riding experience, and that I was being an excellent road rider. Now, I get told the 919 is easy to do this upon.

Oh, well...back to thinking I'm just average.

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post #5 of 14 Old 01-05-2012, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackheart View Post
I ride dual-sport bikes out in the desert most of the time. I had the rear of my 919 step out when I was pulling out in front of oncoming traffic...kept the throttle steady and rode it smoothly stepped out a foot or so for about 10 yards. I was thinking it was all the dirt riding experience, and that I was being an excellent road rider. Now, I get told the 919 is easy to do this upon.

Oh, well...back to thinking I'm just average.
lol its no easy feat thats for sure... road grips way to much compared to dirt.

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post #6 of 14 Old 01-05-2012, 03:13 PM
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In Florida it's not uncommon to pass oncoming cars and see a wake of sand being blown
on the road surface. Almost as much fun as wet leaves.
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post #7 of 14 Old 01-05-2012, 03:27 PM
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the old fishtail trick...holding it for that long must be a thrill

dont need a bike to ride the fast lane
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post #8 of 14 Old 01-05-2012, 03:34 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackheart View Post
I ride dual-sport bikes out in the desert most of the time. I had the rear of my 919 step out when I was pulling out in front of oncoming traffic...kept the throttle steady and rode it smoothly stepped out a foot or so for about 10 yards. I was thinking it was all the dirt riding experience, and that I was being an excellent road rider. Now, I get told the 919 is easy to do this upon.

Oh, well...back to thinking I'm just average.
On the contrary -- the "average" rider ends up filing an insurance claim every time traction goes even a little south. From your description I'd say you're well above average.

Dirt riding is an excellent way to learn what to do in marginal traction situations, but in my case it mostly came from road racing and to a much lesser extent canyon carving. I guess I'm a bit weird in that respect.

Rob

If it has already been done, it is safe to assume it is possible to do it.
On the other hand, if it has not been done never assume it is impossible to do it.
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post #9 of 14 Old 01-09-2012, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
On the contrary -- the "average" rider ends up filing an insurance claim every time traction goes even a little south.

Rob
Yeah, I'd go along with that.
And if one wants to make sure, it's really easy to do.
Be it front or back slide, just be sure to instantly :
Stand up the bike.
Hard shut the throttle.
Grab the front brake lever.
Results are guaranteed, and it's not necessary to do all 3.
Many a time just 1 is needed.

Seriously though, do you not find the modern tires much more forgiving.
I was blown away the first time I had a light front end slide on the 2CTs.
It just skated out and came back in all on its own without any dramatics at all. (I just let it do it's thing and gathered things up after the grip came back in full.)
Same with a rear slide that was much much more dramatic.
(Again, I just let it do it's thing and gathered things up after the grip came back in full.)
The present day tires give way gently and come back in the same way - at least within the limits of what I'm trying to get out of them.
I remember the old stuff being much more dramatic when they lost grip.
That was such a long long time ago.............

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post #10 of 14 Old 01-11-2012, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
Seriously though, do you not find the modern tires much more forgiving.
I was blown away the first time I had a light front end slide on the 2CTs.
It just skated out and came back in all on its own without any dramatics at all. (I just let it do it's thing and gathered things up after the grip came back in full.)
Same with a rear slide that was much much more dramatic.
(Again, I just let it do it's thing and gathered things up after the grip came back in full.)
The present day tires give way gently and come back in the same way - at least within the limits of what I'm trying to get out of them.
I remember the old stuff being much more dramatic when they lost grip.
That was such a long long time ago.............

Good observation there sir. The Pilot Powers are probably the best tire ever made when it comes to being able to push a slide and still remain on two wheels even if you aren't technically in control The front slides very predictably and usually auto corrects as you mentioned, unless of course you as the rider just do something completely stupid and ham-fisted. The rear is also extremely forgiving when you dump the clutch after one or two downshifts too many or if you have the horsepower it will let you leave darkies for hundreds of feet at a time heeled over on edge powering through or out of a turn.

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post #11 of 14 Old 01-11-2012, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
....road grips way to much compared to dirt.
Yep, I certainly respect the asphalt sliding. I've never dumped it on pavement...yet. Much of that has to do with tens of thousands of miles of dirt riding, but, mostly it's that I don't have a trust of the transition to regaining traction. I've messed around a little, sliding on pavement on purpose, but, I just don't make a habit of it...partly because I've never had road bikes I care to drop, and I've never been on a track where I could learn to trust it.

The best unintentional slide I ever did was on an Electraglide Sport, as I was turning left across a big intersection with heavy throttle in second gear, making sure I scooted across before the oncoming traffic got there. Grease in the center allowed the rear to step out, and I just let it hang out there most of the way across the intersection, slowly increasing throttle as it gathered back under me. That must have been really lucky, because I didn't have loud pipes saving my life....

Unfortunately, I can see this scenario happening to a dentist (fill in any other professional occupation you'd like) on his first bike (a Harley), as he chops the throttle and is catapulted up in the air, wondering what happened, about the time an oncoming car erases his ability to wonder what happened.

But, I don't like the front sliding more than the rear. I actually hate that worse than electrical glitches...which I despise. When I put a new rear tire on my 919, it was one short ride before I put a matching front on. It didn't matter than the tread was ample on the old front, compared to a fresh rear, that old tire slid like a kid on a hill the first snow of the season. Not for me.

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post #12 of 14 Old 01-11-2012, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
Good observation there sir. The Pilot Powers are probably the best tire ever made when it comes to being able to push a slide and still remain on two wheels even if you aren't technically in control The front slides very predictably and usually auto corrects as you mentioned, unless of course you as the rider just do something completely stupid and ham-fisted. The rear is also extremely forgiving when you dump the clutch after one or two downshifts too many or if you have the horsepower it will let you leave darkies for hundreds of feet at a time heeled over on edge powering through or out of a turn.
Gotta laugh.
I had a huge (well, huge to me) rear end step out while hard over on the right during a track session.
I was absolutely certain I was done for and in a big way.
(the bike flopped over as part of this, and later I was horrified to discover that I actually somehow hooked the brake pedal, perhaps on a pavement seam or poc, and literally folded the lever back and up during all this!).
That 2CT just started doing recovery work and came back in ever so nicely.
I had zero to do with it, that save was 110 % tire and nothing else but.
I truly got away with something I had no right to get away with is the way I still look at it.

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post #13 of 14 Old 01-11-2012, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
that save was 110 % tire and nothing else but.
I truly got away with something I had no right to get away with is the way I still look at it.
I've had a great many of those episodes over the years and have the skidmarks in my underwear to prove it

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post #14 of 14 Old 01-11-2012, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
I've had a great many of those episodes over the years and have the skidmarks in my underwear to prove it
So THAT's the cause of those things !
And here I was trying to kid myself that it was too much fibre and fruit for breakfast that morning.
The lemonade part I did figure out though...........no denial there.

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