MotoGP/Pro Racer = Win, Trackday Rider/Club Racer = Meh - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 29 Old 09-15-2011, 10:47 AM Thread Starter
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MotoGP/Pro Racer = Win, Trackday Rider/Club Racer = Meh

They are obviously investing a ton of money into MotoGP, with the largest team, and the most riders (3) with Stoner, Pedrosa, and Dovisioso, who take up the Top 4 positions in the standings, and yet they've done little else, imo, compared to the others in terms of what they offer for the streets (you know... the bikes that we can actually buy at the dealerships).

I'm hoping this whole MotoGP thing is a sign of things to come. I just want it to come NOW!!!

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post #2 of 29 Old 09-15-2011, 10:48 AM
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It's Honda, they want to do it right.

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post #3 of 29 Old 09-15-2011, 10:53 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ottawa919 View Post
It's Honda, they want to do it right.
LOL! Good one!!

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post #4 of 29 Old 09-15-2011, 12:18 PM
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It's Honda, they want to do WHAT THEY WANT TO DO.
Fixed your statement for ya

Never once seen Honda listen to the buyer except when it came to the CB1R and that was YEARS of begging. And they brought it in a Down market so no one will buy it and hence Honda will never listen again.

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post #5 of 29 Old 09-15-2011, 01:36 PM
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Honda listens!

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post #6 of 29 Old 09-15-2011, 02:03 PM
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post #8 of 29 Old 09-15-2011, 03:55 PM
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I think Honda will just "trickle down" their technology from GP into consumer bikes. The way the US economy is going, that might turn into "droplets".

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post #9 of 29 Old 09-15-2011, 04:06 PM
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Honestly, though, who really needs more power than the current CBR1k? If you're not tracking it and racing then it's all just bragging rights and posing, isn't it? A good argument could be made for traction control for the average street rider, but I really don't think a fraction of a second on a quarter mile is really a big deal, do you?

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post #10 of 29 Old 09-15-2011, 04:39 PM
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Do you really wanna pay more for gyroscope sensors? Oh and the $1/2 mil. Magneti Marelli system to control it.

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post #11 of 29 Old 09-15-2011, 04:55 PM
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I don't want to pay more anything. That's why I'm riding my 919!

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post #12 of 29 Old 09-15-2011, 05:14 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottawa919 View Post
Honestly, though, who really needs more power than the current CBR1k? If you're not tracking it and racing then it's all just bragging rights and posing, isn't it? A good argument could be made for traction control for the average street rider, but I really don't think a fraction of a second on a quarter mile is really a big deal, do you?
Absolutely. For the most of us "consumers", the bikes we buy off the showroom floor have performance capabilities far beyond what we as everyday riders will ever be able to wring out of them. Honda seems to have a strict business model that a racebike's a racebike, and a streetbike's a STREET bike.

Now I'm gonna speculate that most riders who are trackday junkies, or club racers, are the ones who are gonna be the most passionate about following MotoGP, AMA, WSB, etc..., and are the ones who are gonna be most influenced by how not only the Riders do in those races, but also how those Pros do on different bikes from one season to another. And so with that in mind, you'd think that (in following MotoGP for example), they'd be scooping up Hondas. But no, that does not happen because the bikes they can afford (the ones off the showroom floors) don't neccessarily represent the manufacturer's standings at the racetrack... PARTICULARLY Honda. Trackheads and Club Racers are not pros, but the Pros come from that level, and most of the trackheads and club racers I know, would put Honda at the back of their list, and Yamaha and Suzuki at the top, because those 2 provide us bikes with better track performance at a price we can afford.

AMA is probably the best bet to follow to guage how a showroom bike might perform, but American Honda pulled out of AMA.

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post #13 of 29 Old 09-15-2011, 05:16 PM
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I want as much power as they can give me.
I want as light as weight they can give me.
I want the best chasis they can give me.

If they build a 250hp, 425lb MotoGP chasis-inspired 919 with electronically adjustable footpegs / handlebars and butt-warmer for $8500 I'll get in line.

This is fucking America. Do not put up with less.

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post #14 of 29 Old 09-15-2011, 10:41 PM
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Rob, Honda may not be in Daytona Sportbike, but you see Hondas in supersport - where it's closer to what you see in the showroom. I think the Daytona bikes are pretty tricked out.
That being said, I've been a Honda guy at heart, but have an R6 and wouldn't mind owning any ss from any of the big 4. I do see less Honda track bikes, but don't see how they are any less trackable.

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post #15 of 29 Old 09-15-2011, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
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I don't want to pay more anything. That's why I'm riding my 919!

Does this napkin smell like chloroform? Just kidding baby lemme buy you a drink.
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post #16 of 29 Old 09-15-2011, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Visordown
Now a trawl through the patent archives reveals this sketch, dating way back to 2002 and lodged alongside drawings of the original 2002-spec RC211V racer. As you can see, it's identical to the race bike, but features lights and mirrors...

pshh, that's a picture of the 1st gen 600RR! which was, of course, made to look just like the rc211v. patent photo from 2002. 600RR debuted in 2003. c'mon people!


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post #17 of 29 Old 09-16-2011, 12:22 AM
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Now not being nasty but there is a good range of Honda's in NZ ..........

Don't ask how much shipping will be!

It is ironic that the big 4 Japanese makers have severely tightened their belts in the production bike market, while the European and British makers are introducing new models left right and centre!

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post #18 of 29 Old 09-16-2011, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottawa919 View Post
Honestly, though, who really needs more power than the current CBR1k? If you're not tracking it and racing then it's all just bragging rights and posing, isn't it? A good argument could be made for traction control for the average street rider, but I really don't think a fraction of a second on a quarter mile is really a big deal, do you?
I think the same thing about the 919. I know a lot of people complain that it needs more HP...for what exactly I have no idea. I don't ride on the track and my 919 can get me past legal speeds for every road in my state in 1st gear.

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post #19 of 29 Old 09-16-2011, 07:05 AM Thread Starter
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Rob, Honda may not be in Daytona Sportbike, but you see Hondas in supersport - where it's closer to what you see in the showroom. I think the Daytona bikes are pretty tricked out.
That being said, I've been a Honda guy at heart, but have an R6 and wouldn't mind owning any ss from any of the big 4. I do see less Honda track bikes, but don't see how they are any less trackable.
I'm with you on that! I also am a Honda guy at heart, but I also want an R6 for the track! Lol

Don't get me wrong, at the level I ride my 919 (Level 2/Intermediate) on the track, I would be perfectly happy on an RR, but I like the feel of the R6. The thing is, so many of my trackday brethen, and the club racers I know (over here, it's CMRA), ride Yamis, Zukis, Kawis over Hondas, and they honestly believe they are better bikes than either of the Hondas, 600s or 1Ks. The others are more track focused machines, whereas Honda sticks to their business plan of insisting that their production streetbikes stay true to being just that... A STREET bike. I like that, actually, which is why I love Hondas for my street rides. But for the track, if I'm gonna spend the money on machines that cost about the same, i might as well get the one that offers me more performance straight out of the box.

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post #20 of 29 Old 09-16-2011, 07:08 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier919 View Post
I think the same thing about the 919. I know a lot of people complain that it needs more HP...for what exactly I have no idea. I don't ride on the track and my 919 can get me past legal speeds for every road in my state in 1st gear.
I love my 919. Best bike I ever owned. But this is not about that. That's an entirely different topic, bro! Lol

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post #21 of 29 Old 09-16-2011, 07:47 AM
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Actually I think it is the answer to the discussion. Why spend time and money improving performance when it is impossible to legally use what we have now on public roads. Improving the quality of the cheaper suspension components would seem to me to be a better area to research and develop.

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post #22 of 29 Old 09-16-2011, 08:28 AM Thread Starter
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Actually I think it is the answer to the discussion. Why spend time and money improving performance when it is impossible to legally use what we have now on public roads. Improving the quality of the cheaper suspension components would seem to me to be a better area to research and develop.
I guess my Title to this thread is a bit misleading. I shoud've titled it something like "MotoGP/Pro Racer = Win, Trackday Rider/Club Racer = Meh"

Of the Big 4, only Honda believes in the balance of track performance and streetability for their production bikes, while with the others, what wins on the track on Sundays, you can buy on Mondays, and know you'll have a machine with the performance you want (on the track) straight outa the box.

Being a Honda guy, I want to ride a Honda RR on the track, but like I said, I'll take an R6 any day over an RR for the same coin. I'll just have to take the "friendly" ribbing by my buddies saying things like "HA! Thought you were a Honda guy, Rob!?". "Yeah yeah yeah... shut yo mouf". Lol

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post #23 of 29 Old 09-16-2011, 08:30 AM
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This is fucking America. Do not put up with less.
Best line ever.

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post #24 of 29 Old 09-16-2011, 10:24 AM
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So lets stop buying crap from China.

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post #25 of 29 Old 09-16-2011, 10:36 AM
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MotoGP/Pro Racer = Win, Trackday Rider/Club Racer = Meh"

That is a better title and does make a person scratch their head a bit.

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post #26 of 29 Old 09-16-2011, 11:03 AM Thread Starter
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MotoGP/Pro Racer = Win, Trackday Rider/Club Racer = Meh"

That is a better title and does make a person scratch their head a bit.
Can a Mod change the Title, please?

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post #27 of 29 Old 09-16-2011, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob919 View Post
Of the Big 4, only Honda believes in the balance of track performance and streetability for their production bikes, while with the others, what wins on the track on Sundays, you can buy on Mondays, and know you'll have a machine with the performance you want (on the track) straight outa the box.
Not sure about the newer GSXR600's, but I rode my buddy's '08...and it's the most comfortable ss I've ridden. However, you sit 'in' the bike rather than 'on' it. The front end feel wasn't as good as my older 600RRs or my current R6, and for that reason, I didn't like it. I also rode an '07 GSXR750, the ergos were the same.

I guess I'm still not getting why you think a 600RR is any less great on the track. I do know that their parts tend to be expensive.

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post #28 of 29 Old 09-16-2011, 01:14 PM Thread Starter
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Not sure about the newer GSXR600's, but I rode my buddy's '08...and it's the most comfortable ss I've ridden. However, you sit 'in' the bike rather than 'on' it. The front end feel wasn't as good as my older 600RRs or my current R6, and for that reason, I didn't like it. I also rode an '07 GSXR750, the ergos were the same.

I guess I'm still not getting why you think a 600RR is any less great on the track. I do know that their parts tend to be expensive.
First, I will say that between me and my track buddies, at the level we ride at, it probably would make no difference at all. But whatever be the case, if indeed the Honda is no less great than any of the others on the track, that message is not getting across to the majority of them. Honda's streetbikes off the showroom floor seems to almost always be regarded as more street oriented, and quality construction focused, than the other 3. It's not necessarily ME saying it, but rather it's seems to be the general concensus amongst almost anyone (that I know) that's a trackday junkie, or even club racer. That's all I'm saying. I'm not claiming one way or the other, really, but that's just the way it seems.

Most of us do not have the budget to buy and try all the different models by all the different manufacturers. So when we make a careful decision that will cost us anywhere from $3k-$15k+ on a trackbike, we can only make that decision on buying a single bike that we will be stuck with for a season or 2 or more..., and that decision is based on what we read and hear, through articles or hearsay. You don't at least have an idea of what I'm saying? Because it's what I hear all the time.... Whether it be true or not. I mean, there has got to be a reason why we see more Yamahas, Suzukis, and Kawis on the track than Hondas, and it can't be just because Hondas are more expensive or have more expensive parts. And that's all I'm saying....

Anyway, maybe I just can't write it out clear enough, but I hope you at least get an idea of what I'm saying. If not, no big deal, really. I posted this after the topic came up between my buddies, and other trackheads last night, and sure enough, it went into "Honda hasn't really done anything in the last several years, and anything they came out with was almost immediately one-upped by the other mfrs...". And yet they are obviously throwing tons od money into racing. The Repsol Honda is awesome! But can we buy it? No. And so I posted here...

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post #29 of 29 Old 09-16-2011, 02:22 PM
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Can a Mod change the Title, please?
Done

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